New Conti dws - steering very loose??

[Spikyod]

Hi, new to forum, but lurked for years reading posts....

Took my 11 S4 with rear sports diff 19" peelers into Mavis because i blew out my worn toyo proxes t1 sports doing donuts (shh i know) got the dws 06 because i needed better winter safety in upstate NY. I had the old Conti dws on my Audi TL before and also gfs honda civic.

Once the new dws were on, new alignment done.... My very nice tight steering (not even in dynamic) is now Very loose in my opinion.... At highway speeds, just a little wobble of wheel almost kicks out the back end and the whole body 'wobbles'! And at low speeds the steering wheel has a lot of play. Just seems very sloppy.

I took the car back and said did you balance, align, etc right.... Rode with manager and showed him.... He rechecked, put pressure at 40psi, gave a smide of toe in, and it still is sloppy, almost boatlike on highway.

Before taking it into dealer..... Would the new tires be that much of a steering change? Could they have broken the sway bar or something..... I dont feel the worn old tires could have made it THAT much of a diff in very tight precise steering. I loved the steering before.

Any suggestions/comments?? Thanks in advance!

[CELison]

Those and the DW's don't have stiff sidewalls.

[Spikyod]

Hmm, my TL on 17" never wobbled like this.... It feels like the suspension is encased in a block block.... Its not like im losing traction, but the body sways with the smallest shift at 65mph and up..... Feels dangerous if I had to swerve for an animal or pothole...

[SteveYem]

Those and the DW's don't have stiff sidewalls.

Could it also be that the brand new tires still have the thin film of lubricant on them that the manufacturer applies to release them from their molds? I've read this is a real phenomenon but have not noticed it myself.

[Spikyod]

*block of jello

[SportVier]

Search Results:

"Some of the lubricant stays on the surface of your tires, reducing traction until it is worn away. Five hundred miles of easy acceleration, cornering and braking will allow the mold release lubricant to wear off, allowing the other tire components to begin working together."

[SteveYem]

Hmm, my TL on 17" never wobbled like this.... It feels like the suspension is encased in a block block.... Its not like im losing traction, but the body sways with the smallest shift at 65mph and up..... Feels dangerous if I had to swerve for an animal or pothole...

It sure sounds like you are in-tune with how your car feels normally and that there is something wrong. Do you have the before/after alignment sheet that you could post here for us to review?

[CELison]

Could it also be that the brand new tires still have the thin film of lubricant on them that the manufacturer applies to release them from their molds? I've read this is a real phenomenon but have not noticed it myself.

Not to a huge extent. I noticed the same thing you did when I went from my pilot sport AS/3s to conti DW's.

[Spikyod]

I do not :( just took the Mavis manager for his word, would they save such info? The car drives straight... So can aligning adjustment be left in a more loose state? Im a suspension newb, but i know how it handled before and its MUCH different

[Spikyod]

It sure sounds like you are in-tune with how your car feels normally and that there is something wrong. Do you have the before/after alignment sheet that you could post here for us to review?

I do not :( just took the Mavis manager for his word, would they save such info? The car drives straight... So can aligning adjustment be left in a more loose state? Im a suspension newb, but i know how it handled before and its MUCH different

[SteveYem]

I do not :( just took the Mavis manager for his word, would they save such info? The car drives straight... So can aligning adjustment be left in a more loose state? Im a suspension newb, but i know how it handled before and its MUCH different

I believe that the caster angle can determine steering effort, but I do not know whether that is adjustable on these cars.
Do a google search for "alignment steering effort" and see what you can find out, as I only skimmed the first lines of a couple articles.

[plat]

First up, did they install the CONTI DWS or DWS06? If they gave you the DWS then the sidewalls on these old models are very soft compared to the DWS06 that are currently installed in my S5. The steering does not have a dead zone and it certainly does not feel that light or loose.

Here's another thing, new tires need to be broken in for, at least, 400 kms. or 250 miles. Brand new tires will not provide you much grip so take it easy on them.

Also, 40-PSI is too much tire pressure. for daily use if there will be no more than 3 people in your car. 41-PSI is the recommended pressure front and back for full load conditions. For normal load conditions (3 people or less), it is 39 PSI front and 33 PSI Rear. Remember that the air inside the tires expand when the tires warm up and when the ambient temps increase (1 PSI increase for every 5-degrees F increase from ambient temp). Try reducing the tire pressure and see the difference. It will tend to be bouncy when the tires are hard.

[doughboy17]

I have not had DWS s on my car but they are known for soft sidewalls. You did go from an Ultra High Perform. Summer tire to an All-Season tire. That alone will make a significant difference. What I can tell you is that going from Kumho's Ultra High Perform. All Seasons to General AS-03s turned my Audi into a Buick. The steering and handling are night and day vs. the Kumhos, even maintaining the same "class" of tire.

[pdqgp]

Michelin PSS, Stage II and the Sport Diff equal f'n magical fun daily I run all mine at 41psi daily with just me in it and see spot-on perfect handling as per my chalk tests during even aggressive driving on the road. Perfect roll over factor for me.

[WJN S4]

Had DWS on my S4, just switched to BFG gForce Comp2 A/S and it made such a difference.. DWS really dummies down the S4 performance and makes it feel like a floating Buick, no connection to the road and complete sloppiness. They were very comfortable and quiet though, good treadlife.

[Spikyod]

First up, did they install the CONTI DWS or DWS06? If they gave you the DWS then the sidewalls on these old models are very soft compared to the DWS06 that are currently installed in my S5. The steering does not have a dead zone and it certainly does not feel that light or loose.

Here's another thing, new tires need to be broken in for, at least, 400 kms. or 250 miles. Brand new tires will not provide you much grip so take it easy on them.

Also, 40-PSI is too much tire pressure. for daily use if there will be no more than 3 people in your car. 41-PSI is the recommended pressure front and back for full load conditions. For normal load conditions (3 people or less), it is 39 PSI front and 33 PSI Rear. Remember that the air inside the tires expand when the tires warm up and when the ambient temps increase (1 PSI increase for every 5-degrees F increase from ambient temp). Try reducing the tire pressure and see the difference. It will tend to be bouncy when the tires are hard.

It was the DWS 06s.... Had the old on my acura and never had this issue... I guess as WJNS4 says theyre just sloppy?! Pitty dropping a grand and having crappy steering :(

[Spikyod]

Had DWS on my S4, just switched to BFG gForce Comp2 A/S and it made such a difference.. DWS really dummies down the S4 performance and makes it feel like a floating Buick, no connection to the road and complete sloppiness. They were very comfortable and quiet though, good treadlife.

Such a shame to hear.... I did drop the psi and makes no difference, rear body sway over 65 with a little jerk makes me nervous for winter, i feel like i could roll the thing!

[mc8198]

I had the exact same problem, so I sent an email to Continental. Below is the thread...........


Dear Mike A.,

[Web Inquiry: 160810-000030]

Yes, you are correct there is a break-in period that the oils and curing additives need to wear off. This is typically 200-500 miles depending on environmental conditions including road surfaces, temperatures etc. You are also correct that some of it is the full tread depth of the tire.

If you can imaging the most responsive tire would be a racing slick on dry pavement, but they do not have traction in rain and snow. Your DWS tires that were removed, had excellent responsiveness but were likely to have less grip in rain and snow because of low tread depth. Your new tires at full tread depth will break-in and from there the tire will only get more responsive going forward.

Best Regards,

Response By Email(08/10/2016 03:13 PM)
Dear Mike A.,

[Web Inquiry: 160810-000030]

We want to give you the best answer possible, so we are forwarding this email to an engineer for review.

Thank you
Customer By CSS Email(08/10/2016 02:18 PM)
Hello,

I just purchased a set of DWS06’s (255/35R19) to replace the older DWS’s on my 2014 Audi S4. The older DWS tires were great performers in all conditions, but the new DWS06’s feel extremely numb and unresponsive. When driving at 50mph I can turn the wheel quickly in both directions and I can feel the tires moving, but the only response from the car is that the traction control engages as if it’s correcting a low traction issue. Also, when recovering from a sharp turn the back end sways quite a bit.

I am wondering, is there a break-in period for the new tires? Is this maybe happening because there is so much tread depth? I took my car to the Audi dealership today to be aligned, thinking maybe that may correct the issue. Please let me know if any of this sounds abnormal – Thanks!

[superswiss]

There are a few factors at play here.

First off, as correctly stated, new tires have a lubricant on them so they can be separated from the mold. They will have shitty grip for about the first 500 miles. I've gone into 4 wheel drifts on new tires in fast corners on dry road where normally the car sits tight and I've learned to take it easy until the new tires are worn in.

Secondly, you have gone from a high performance summer to a all-season tire. While still in the performance category, your new tire has a softer sidewall, which will result in a less responsive steering. All season tires come with compromises. Too many for me personally, so that's why I would never put them on a sporty/performance car.

Thirdly, you have gone from a worn tire with less tread depth to a new tire with 10/32" tread depth. A new tire is simply sloppier than a worn tire. The most responsive tire as correctly stated above by mc8198's email thread is a worn tire. They will have the best response and most dry grip, but they suck when wet. That's just how it is. Usually my car starts feeling right again when the tires are down to about 6/32".

You will notice these factors more or less depending on how tight the car is setup. On a tight car like the S4 etc. these things are more noticeable than on a looser car like your TL. In addition you had 17" tires on your TL, so they were already looser than I assume 18" or 19" that you currently have, so that also factors into how noticeable it is. A 17" tires is less responsive in the first place, than an 18" or 19" because of the taller sidewall.

[mavz]

I have the DWS06 and honestly have been perfectly fine for me. I've had them for about 9 months and 8k miles. I've hit some very twisty roads hard as well and can't really complain. Are they going to be as good as PSS? No, but I'm not having any of the complaints as others have mentioned.

[miztahsparklez]

my dws06 have gotten better with mileage. Initially they would slip easy, but now it's gotten a lot better.

I have a lot done to my suspension, so i don't feel the "looseness" you are speaking of.

The other thing to check is your alignment. i've had bad alignment specs and the car felt like it was driving by itself and all over.

[Spikyod]

I had the exact same problem, so I sent an email to Continental. Below is the thread..........

Thanks, the sway of the back is what worried me, hopefully it resolves.... Only have about 100 miles on them

[Spikyod]

There are a few factors at play here

Thirdly, you have gone from a worn tire with less tread depth to a new tire with 10/32" tread depth. A new tire is simply sloppier than a worn tire. The most responsive tire as correctly stated above by mc8198's email thread is a worn tire. They will have the best response and most dry grip, but they suck when wet. That's just how it is. Usually my car starts feeling right again when the tires are down to about 6/32". .

Thx superswiss, all true statements.... Grip doesnt seem to be much of a problem, i can take a curve at 60mph easily but its the sharp turn or slight jerk recovery resulting in body sway that worried me that perhaps the tire place broke a sway bar or something, vs am i spoiled on summer worn outs.... After driving for over 20yrs and tons of tires, never had such a dramatic underwhelming... Usually im like awesome, finally new tires!, drives so nice! Instead its what did you do to my tight german machine??!!

[ojmcneill]

I'm running them on my 13 S4 and yes sir, you are right, they certainly don't compare to a summer performance tire. Much 'splashier/squishier' in my opinion. Here's the deal though, come winter and more inclement weather, you'll love those tires as they turn this already capable car into a freaking snow and ice eating beast! Ultimately, that's the tradeoff bra: Summer performance that puts a grin on your face for four months or all seasons that feel almost as good but really show their worth for 6 months of winter.
I'd give them some time to wear in and get scuffed a bit but overall, they aren't going to match or even come close to a summer performance tire. Like you, I run about 40psi up front and 39psi on the rears. running the higher fpressure seems to firm them up on this tire regardless of what the tire pros say. I've tried to keep an eye on wear as well and they appear to be wearing evenly.
Best of luck brother.

[Spikyod]

I'm running them on my 13 S4 and yes sir, you are right, they certainly don't compare to a summer performance tire. Much 'splashier/squishier' in my opinion. Here's the deal though, come winter and more inclement weather, you'll love those tires as they turn this already capable car into a freaking snow and ice eating beast! Ultimately, that's the tradeoff bra: Summer performance that puts a grin on your face for four months or all seasons that feel almost as good but really show their worth for 6 months of winter.
I'd give them some time to wear in and get scuffed a bit but overall, they aren't going to match or even come close to a summer performance tire. Like you, I run about 40psi up front and 39psi on the rears. running the higher fpressure seems to firm them up on this tire regardless of what the tire pros say. I've tried to keep an eye on wear as well and they appear to be wearing evenly.
Best of luck brother.

Thanks, good hear from members that i may not be crazy thinking Mavis messed up my suspension or something

[superswiss]

Thx superswiss, all true statements.... Grip doesnt seem to be much of a problem, i can take a curve at 60mph easily but its the sharp turn or slight jerk recovery resulting in body sway that worried me that perhaps the tire place broke a sway bar or something, vs am i spoiled on summer worn outs.... After driving for over 20yrs and tons of tires, never had such a dramatic underwhelming... Usually im like awesome, finally new tires!, drives so nice! Instead its what did you do to my tight german machine??!!

I would definitely take a look at the alignment by somebody who knows how to properly align an Audi with EPS. Don't know which steering you have, but I've made really bad experience with having independent shops try to align my RS5. I have the optional dynamic steering and it needs to be properly reset and initialized after an alignment. I have a really great indy shop who does all my non warranty work, but after having them try about 4 times to get my car aligned I gave up. They are not properly equipped. Car drove like shit. Took it to the dealer, they aligned it and all was back to normal. I've come to the conclusion that EPS is finicky when it comes to alignment. If they don't reset the steering sensors, following the correct procedures the car will be fighting you, because mechanically it will be doing one thing, but the sensors are telling it another thing, resulting in very strange driving dynamics.

My indy shop does know what they are doing otherwise. They align my wife's car with hydraulic steering no problem. They fixed a bad alignment after my wife had a minor collision and the body shop took it to Big O Tires who claimed they properly aligned the car, but it drove terrible and it turned out after my indy guy took a look that the front toe was all over the place. One side had too much negative toe and the other side too much positive toe. Another lesson learned to never have a we do it all tire place align any of my cars.

I'm running them on my 13 S4 and yes sir, you are right, they certainly don't compare to a summer performance tire. Much 'splashier/squishier' in my opinion. Here's the deal though, come winter and more inclement weather, you'll love those tires as they turn this already capable car into a freaking snow and ice eating beast! Ultimately, that's the tradeoff bra: Summer performance that puts a grin on your face for four months or all seasons that feel almost as good but really show their worth for 6 months of winter.
I'd give them some time to wear in and get scuffed a bit but overall, they aren't going to match or even come close to a summer performance tire. Like you, I run about 40psi up front and 39psi on the rears. running the higher fpressure seems to firm them up on this tire regardless of what the tire pros say. I've tried to keep an eye on wear as well and they appear to be wearing evenly.
Best of luck brother.

Except all season tires are not really winter tires. They are a compromise in all seasons. At best they are meant for rain and a light coating of snow. I've got all seasons on my wife's car, because driving dynamics don't matter to her and it's sufficient to go up to the mountains for a couple of weekends in the winter. Otherwise our winters are mild, no snow, just rain if we are lucky. The drought obviously has put a damper on the wet stuff anyway.

[FWP!]

Reminds me of when I made the mistake of switching from PSS's to Hankook evo2's on my RS4, what a huge disappointing difference. Yes, the Hankooks were more comfortable, but it came with a big trade off.

[mc8198]

After having the DWS 06's installed, I did spend $180 on an alignment at the dealership and it made no difference in handling whatsoever. My tires gradually got better, but I wouldn't say they were completely right until I had a little more than 500 miles on them... Actually, closer to 600 miles.

[EurozoneTuning]

I had continental DWS installed on my last car (2011 GTI), and the steering definitely got very floaty. I upped the PSI's to 42 and they felt slightly better, but still felt numb compared to the previous set of tires that were on them (Falken Fk452 I believe).

That was the only trade-off of the tire, though. The tread wear, comfort, lack of tire noise, wet and dry grip was excellent with them. Those are the best all season tires I have ever had experience driving on.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[evil35r]

I have the dws06 on peelers and my car handles just fine. Probably not as good as sticky summer tires but they do the job.

[14S4GWM]

I have the dws06 on peelers and my car handles just fine. Probably not as good as sticky summer tires but they do the job.

I like mine too, feel great.

[GeoJoe]

This is the part where you get to cringe.

Running DWS on a drying track after a wet morning and pavement switches into the infield.



Messed up my mind for the rest of the day... but not a scratch.

[shifu22]

does anyone have alignment specs for the car that would make it drive impeccably?

I had mine just done to OE specs and drives fine, but tends to wonder a bit on me when in auto mode

[m1_s4]

Sorry I dont mean to bump an old thread but I am having same exact issues with newly installed DWS06s. Did it eventually go away after 500-600 miles? The loose steering wheel is driving me crazy.

[KBRUCE23]

Sorry I dont mean to bump an old thread but I am having same exact issues with newly installed DWS06s. Did it eventually go away after 500-600 miles? The loose steering wheel is driving me crazy.

I’ve got a c6 a6 so take it for what it’s worth but I noticed the exact same thing when I got these tires about 6 months ago and it drove me nuts. I don’t know if I got used to it but I don’t notice it at all anymore


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[Dobbler]

DWS 06 were great on my B5 (225/45/17) but are underwhelming on my B8.5 (255/35/19). My theory is the heavier car exaggerates the softer sidewalls.

[miztahsparklez]

I run 0 toe in front and 1/16-1/8" toe-in for the rear.

The toe in for the rear definitely helps with the straight line stability. I initially ran 0 toe all the way around.. that was hard to control. Felt like I was sliding all over the place with any road imperfections.

Sent from my MI MIX using Tapatalk

[tgsweat]

Sorry I dont mean to bump an old thread but I am having same exact issues with newly installed DWS06s. Did it eventually go away after 500-600 miles? The loose steering wheel is driving me crazy.

I've had these for about 3,000 miles now and yes they are very soft and the feeling has not gone away. I had the older DWS on my old G35 coupe and hated them. They claimed to have stiffen the sidewall, and they did, but its still soft compared to the Goodyear F1 Asymmetric A/S i ran before these. I'm sure these will do better in the snow than the goodyears because of the softer compound, but they suck for handling compared to the goodyears. I let someone at the Audi dealer talk me back into the DWS and i should have just stuck with what was working for me.

[doughboy17]

Sorry I dont mean to bump an old thread but I am having same exact issues with newly installed DWS06s. Did it eventually go away after 500-600 miles? The loose steering wheel is driving me crazy.

Contis DWS have soft sidewalls. Get used to it or try the Michelins or maybe the BFGs.

[Moto One]

I'v had nothing be praise for the DWS06, Ride, Handling, and snow capable works for me, I'v event run them on track. (worked really good in the rain) So much so I put the Conti on my Z06 in place of the (none available) DW's that I have been running, and yes I drive my Vette in the winter too. I'll agree that the turn-in is softer the true hp tires, but the over all grip is close, and a little less grip means less wear & tear on the car at the track.

Mark.