3.0 Timing Belt Questions

[Fouad1013]

Hi All, Sorry if this has been answered before but I did some search and there just isnt much about the 3.0. Im gearing up to replace my timing and serpentine belts on my A4. It is an 02 with 85k on it, and as far as i know they havent been replaced. My question is what should I replace when I do service. I am already planning on replacing the valve cover gaskets. What else do you guys recommend I replace? I just bought a house so I am trying to avoid buying a $500 kit if I dont need it.

Thanks in advanced

[DarkoNova]

As much internal "while you're in there" stuff as possible, just to save yourself from having to tear the front apart again. When I did my timing belt, I did the timing belt, tensioner and idlers, serpentine belt, serpentine tensioner and water pump. I also did spark plugs just because I didn't know how old they were (and it was basically a tune-up/timing belt job for me), but I didn't do valve cover gaskets because mine weren't leaking and looked good.

I may get flak for this, but I didn't feel like spending $500+ either, so I got all my stuff from RockAuto. Everything looked like quality parts and I haven't had any issues since.

[86turbodsl]

Same here. The rock auto conti kit with water pump is quality parts with metal water pump and you cant beat the price.

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[SJorge3442]

That continental kit is fine, but the problem is, it doesnt come with all the other parts that should be replaced. Sure the $500 kit is pricey, but it comes with EVERYTHING you need. If you have even one leaking seal (you have 5 to worry about 4 cam and 1 crank) the kit will pay for itself. If you're not about buying the $500 kit, you're still going to need the Conti kit, a new serp belt (i recommend a new serp tensioner too), valve cover gaskets (not replacing these is asinine and only asking for problems later on, sorry), thermostat, and new coolant.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but the kit really does cover everything that should be replaced when doing the job. This job is not fun to do and I know I would rather fork over an extra $150-200 now than have the car leave me stranded in 6 months because I cheaped out and didnt want to change the thermostat or something.

[deyrag]

You are also going to need to buy, rent or borrow the cam lock tools.

[customa4]

This should help along the way. Click

[DarkoNova]

That continental kit is fine, but the problem is, it doesnt come with all the other parts that should be replaced. Sure the $500 kit is pricey, but it comes with EVERYTHING you need. If you have even one leaking seal (you have 5 to worry about 4 cam and 1 crank) the kit will pay for itself. If you're not about buying the $500 kit, you're still going to need the Conti kit, a new serp belt (i recommend a new serp tensioner too), valve cover gaskets (not replacing these is asinine and only asking for problems later on, sorry), thermostat, and new coolant.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but the kit really does cover everything that should be replaced when doing the job. This job is not fun to do and I know I would rather fork over an extra $150-200 now than have the car leave me stranded in 6 months because I cheaped out and didnt want to change the thermostat or something.

Thermostat and coolant are something I do with every timing belt change. I didn't mention them because I'm not sure if others are the same way.

In regards to the cam seals, crank seals, and valve cover gaskets...eh. I did a lot of searching and nobody really ever talked about doing them during a timing belt job. Nor did anyone talk about leaks from not doing them. So I didn't do any of them and I don't regret it.

[SJorge3442]

Thermostat and coolant are something I do with every timing belt change. I didn't mention them because I'm not sure if others are the same way.

In regards to the cam seals, crank seals, and valve cover gaskets...eh. I did a lot of searching and nobody really ever talked about doing them during a timing belt job. Nor did anyone talk about leaks from not doing them. So I didn't do any of them and I don't regret it.

Yeah I didnt have to use any of the seals either, but not everyone is that lucky. Once you figure in another $50-75 for the thermostat and then $50 or so for the coolant, you're getting really close to the cost of the Blauparts kit.

[19jdog]

That continental kit is fine, but the problem is, it doesnt come with all the other parts that should be replaced. Sure the $500 kit is pricey, but it comes with EVERYTHING you need. If you have even one leaking seal (you have 5 to worry about 4 cam and 1 crank) the kit will pay for itself. If you're not about buying the $500 kit, you're still going to need the Conti kit, a new serp belt (i recommend a new serp tensioner too), valve cover gaskets (not replacing these is asinine and only asking for problems later on, sorry), thermostat, and new coolant.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but the kit really does cover everything that should be replaced when doing the job. This job is not fun to do and I know I would rather fork over an extra $150-200 now than have the car leave me stranded in 6 months because I cheaped out and didnt want to change the thermostat or something.

So true, I did everything but the seals! Now my cam shaft seals are leaking. So much work just to get to the seals. Sh!T

[19jdog]

Hi All, Sorry if this has been answered before but I did some search and there just isnt much about the 3.0. Im gearing up to replace my timing and serpentine belts on my A4. It is an 02 with 85k on it, and as far as i know they havent been replaced. My question is what should I replace when I do service. I am already planning on replacing the valve cover gaskets. What else do you guys recommend I replace? I just bought a house so I am trying to avoid buying a $500 kit if I dont need it.

Thanks in advanced

Holy cow 85K on 14 year old car! Ill be turning 200K by next week! So jealous...

[imnuts]

I have a post on here somewhere that lists all the parts I had changed at the dealer performed timing belt service. It corresponds more or less to the kids that are in the $5-600 range. The crank seal is the only thing I don't think has ever been replaced as it is more of a don't touch unless leaking seal IMO.

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[ErikG]

Please please dont drive it if possible. I just picked up an 03 A4 with 85k miles. Drove it for a few weeks knowing the timing belt had to be done. Finally getting around to it this week/weekend and got a view of the belt. Its cracking like crazy and i got lucky it didnt break in the few weeks i drove it after i bought it.

Anyways enough scaring you. here is a great procedure for changing out the timing belt and water pump. http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng110.shtml

Hopefully it helps!

Im changing the timing and serp belt. Water pump, tb tensioner and idler pulleys as well the the tension mechanism. Also changing the serp tensioner. Valve cover gaskets will be changed as well along with new fans for the radiator and snub mount damper. I dont have the o-rings for the caps on the cam pulleys but i think that i should be able to find them if they need to be replaced(assuming they are standard o-rings).

Good luck on the job, cheers.
-Erik

[pablolizarraga]

I've been compiling any info I can in preparation for this behemoth of a maintenance procedure and came across this DIY video for rent $3.


Has anyone rented this video?

Good luck!

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[SJorge3442]

Please please dont drive it if possible. I just picked up an 03 A4 with 85k miles. Drove it for a few weeks knowing the timing belt had to be done. Finally getting around to it this week/weekend and got a view of the belt. Its cracking like crazy and i got lucky it didnt break in the few weeks i drove it after i bought it.

Anyways enough scaring you. here is a great procedure for changing out the timing belt and water pump. http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng110.shtml

Hopefully it helps!

Im changing the timing and serp belt. Water pump, tb tensioner and idler pulleys as well the the tension mechanism. Also changing the serp tensioner. Valve cover gaskets will be changed as well along with new fans for the radiator and snub mount damper. I dont have the o-rings for the caps on the cam pulleys but i think that i should be able to find them if they need to be replaced(assuming they are standard o-rings).

Good luck on the job, cheers.
-Erik

I've been compiling any info I can in preparation for this behemoth of a maintenance procedure and came across this DIY video for rent $3.


Has anyone rented this video?

Good luck!

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The files shared above contain everything that you need. This forum is a wealth of knowledge which will also help you out, but for $3, it probably wouldn't hurt to have that video

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[john_gonzo]

Here's another video. Haven't watched the whole thing but the trailer looks less flashy with more info.
Audi A4 3.0L V6 Timing Belt Replacement Video- Engine Code AVK

AZ member diuvic found that. Posted in this thread:
Crank-Seal-Replacement_3-0L-AVK-Oil-Leak-Madness

[Fouad1013]

Thanks for all the information guys. I think I'm going to do the belts, rollers, tensioners, water pump, thermostat, serpentine belt, Valve cover gaskets, and the accessory rollers. There is a European Auto Parts store in town that can get almost any part next day. Its not gonna be for another couple of weeks till I am able to do the job, but I will keep you guys updated. I still need to figure out where to buy the parts. Does anyone have any recommendations?

[john_gonzo]

Blau Parts has three timing kits available for the 3.0: Base, Enhanced, Enhanced+

====================
$260
BLAU INA Pre-assembled Base Kit Includes:
1 INA Gates Timing Belt
1 NTN Timing Belt Tensioner w/ Genuine Hardware
1 NTN Timing Belt Hydraulic Tensioning Damper w/ Genuine Hardware
1 INA Timing Belt Tensioner Eccentric Idler w/ Genuine Hardware
1 INA Timing Belt Tensioner Idler w/ Genuine Hardware
1 INA Timing Belt Service Interval Sticker

====================
$505
Base Kit plus Enhanced Additions:
1 Graf Water Pump w/ Metal Impeller, Heavy Duty Pulley, and Gasket (Updated Mfg.)
1 Mahle Original Thermostat Assembly With Housing & O-Ring
1 Flennor Gates Serpentine Belt
1 Viton Front Crank Seal
4 Camshaft Seals
4 Camshaft Sprocket O-ring Seals w/ Circlips
2 Valve Cover Gaskets
1 Front Motor Mount
1 Thread Locking Compound
1 Anti Seize Compound
Blauparts Detailed Step-by-Step Audi A4 Timing Belt Instructions
Numerous pages and images of detailed step-by-step guidelines, including front bumper removal.

====================
$534
Base Kit plus Enhanced+ Additions:
1 Graf Water Pump w/ Metal Impeller, Heavy Duty Pulley, and Gasket (Updated Mfg.)
1 Mahle Original Thermostat Assembly With Housing & O-Ring
1 Flennor Gates Serpentine Belt
1 Viton Front Crank Seal
4 Camshaft Seals
4 Camshaft Sprocket O-ring Seals w/ Circlips
2 Valve Cover Gaskets
1 Front Motor Mount
1 Thread Locking Compound
1 Anti Seize Compound
6 Liters German Ravenol G12 Plus Antifreeze (4 - 1.5L Bottles)
Appropriate amount for complete cooling system flush.
Blauparts Detailed Step-by-Step Audi A4 Timing Belt Instructions
Numerous pages and images of detailed step-by-step guidelines, including front bumper removal.

====================
I have no stake in the company but I have installed two timing kits from them in my 3.0 over the years. Good company. This is the same place SJorge3442 mentioned earlier.

[cschuster]

Rock auto here as well, although I ordered parts from roughly 3 different sites, as there was always at least one part in a kit that cost double what it cost somewhere else. Between rockauto, fcp euro, and eurpoa parts, I was able to get everything plus some extra stuff for about 400 bucks. That included an eBay cam lock set too.

Rolling through 185k, with 35k on the timing belt job.
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[ErikG]

So Fouad101, did you do the belt yet?

[Fouad1013]

Sorry I havent posted here in a while. I got distracted with the new house. I just started doing the job. I borrowed a car from my friend so I'm taking my time with it. So far I got the the accessory belt off, and the valve covers. Not as much progress as i would have hoped, but its my first time doing a major service on a car. My problem now is even with the lock carrier in service position there still isnt much room there for me to get everything off. I found a walk through for the 1.8 where they were able to remove the lock carrier without unplugging the AC condenser lines. I am going to try that tomorrow to give me some room to work on this. I ended up picking up all the parts from a local parts store in town, got the belts, rollers, tentioners, cam and crank seals, Valve cover gaskets, water pump, thermostat, coolant overflow tank, snub mounts, and the coolant for 560. I will keep you guys updated as i go.

[86turbodsl]

I take the whole front end off, and the ac condensor slides under the engine and sits on a box. I sit in a chair and do the job. It's easier than service position.

[customa4]

I agree. Especially for the first time, get the front clip out of the way.

[SJorge3442]

For the 3.0 gettign the front clip moved out of the way is the ONLY WAY IMO. It takes an extra 25min, but that will save so much cussing and screaming, not to mentioned bloody hands or dropped tools.

[Fouad1013]

Quick update on the job. I ran into a problem. One of the accessory belt tensioner bolts snapped when i was trying to remove it. Then when i was trying to extract the bolt, I broke the bolt boss on the front seal carrier thing. So now i have to replace that too.

[Fouad1013]

One more thing. I cant seem to find the crank lock pin location. I need to lock the crank to take off the front seal and its housing. The other thing is that when i locked my cams, the mark on the crankshaft pulley did not line up with the mark on the timing cover perfectly. How close to aligned should those be?

[Nollywood]

I just did mine.

Bear in mind, the camlocks will only fit in one position, as the flats that accept the tools are tapered / wedge shaped. As for the crank lock, I've never used it. I simply make a mark on the sprocket, and use it as a reference. It won't move, as the camshaft sprockets are loosened, so they freewheel.

[Fouad1013]

My cam locks are fully seated. But the crank TDC mark wasnt matching the mark on the cover. I have to put in the crank lock since i need to replace the front seal and the seal carrier.

[SJorge3442]

My cam locks are fully seated. But the crank TDC mark wasnt matching the mark on the cover. I have to put in the crank lock since i need to replace the front seal and the seal carrier.

That pin location is behind the AUX water pump. Follow the lines from the oil cooler and you'll find it. Its a pain. Since your timing marks arent lining up, I bet your belt stretched causing your timing to be off. Don't worry about that now, just be sure to have everything lined up when you re-assemble

[Fouad1013]

do i have to remove the AC compressor to get to it? I see the plug i just cant seem to be able to reach it

[john_gonzo]

do i have to remove the AC compressor to get to it? I see the plug i just cant seem to be able to reach it

No. If you have the Aux cooling pump, remove the two mounting screws for that. Leave the hoses attached to the pump. Then push the pump up and towards the front of the engine. That will give better access to the plug for the crank lock pin.

Edit: To fully seat the locking pin, use a breaker bar to rock the crank back and forth slightly while turning the locking pin by hand.

[Fouad1013]

No. If you have the Aux cooling pump, remove the two mounting screws for that. Leave the hoses attached to the pump. Then push the pump up and towards the front of the engine. That will give better access to the plug for the crank lock pin.

I was able to get it by removing one of the AUX cooling pump screws and pushing the pump out of the way. Im going to need someone to rock the crank back and forth for me to seat the pin. There is no way for me to reach the locking pin and the breaker bar on the front on my own.

[Fouad1013]

So i just ran into a huge problem. There doesnt seem to be a way to remove that front plate without pulling down the upper oil pan. This is such a bad design for a seal holder. Does anyone have any experience getting this plate out? or removing the upper oil pan?

[SJorge3442]

So i just ran into a huge problem. There doesnt seem to be a way to remove that front plate without pulling down the upper oil pan. This is such a bad design for a seal holder. Does anyone have any experience getting this plate out? or removing the upper oil pan?

Post some pictures of what you're dealing with. We need to make sure we're all on the same page.

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[Fouad1013]

Post some pictures of what you're dealing with. We need to make sure we're all on the same page.

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Lets see if this picture works

So this is the front of the engine. I know its filthy.

https://goo.gl/photos/j5ssTazrMzHcmP1v9

This is the bolt hole that i broke

https://goo.gl/photos/XZLC8S7NFfYoAVzU9

That is the plate in question (new one I just got)

https://goo.gl/photos/wDKjVKgNkr9iJsMw9

The problem is that the piece that sticks out from the bottom of that plate is preventing me from removing the current one. It catches on the upper oil pan.

I hope this explains what is going on

[cschuster]

I believe the upper oil pan has to be removed to get the flange out. Looks like you already got the crank seal out? You can install a new seal without removing the flange

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[SJorge3442]

I believe the upper oil pan has to be removed to get the flange out. Looks like you already got the crank seal out? You can install a new seal without removing the flange

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You are correct I believe. Are you replacing this front cover because you had an issue with the snapped bolt? Might be worth while to see if you can get someone with a welder to come by and try to remove that broke bolt for you. I found this list of steps on Audi World for whats needed to remove the upper oil pan, which sounds like a lot, but in reality, isn't.

"the engine will need to be supported from up top , drain oil , remove lower pan , lock carrier in service position , unbolt a/c compressor , remove oil cooler housing , remove air pump , lower front of subframe , remove alternator , remove starter & after that it is a cake walk."

[Cal19]

thanks has helped me a lot