rod install

[jonan]

i was just quoted ~$2,500 for a rod install job at a shop in CT...i'm really leaning towards doing this myself...

does the bently manual have all the torque specs and step-by-step instructions required for the job? i want to make sure if i do this that i do it right...any of you guys here in CT that can talk me through it if i have any questions when i attempt it?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

i was just quoted ~$2,500 for a rod install job at a shop in CT...i'm really leaning towards doing this myself...

does the bently manual have all the torque specs and step-by-step instructions required for the job? i want to make sure if i do this that i do it right...any of you guys here in CT that can talk me through it if i have any questions when i attempt it?

I would research and collect data first before starting anything. This has been done many times by many people so it is surely documented. If not completely what you are looking for, Im sure you can gather up the necessary information from various posts on this site.

[EuroxS4]

Yeah it's a cake job if you have the tools.Did you pull the engine??Im assuming the quote they gave you is to pull the engine disassemble and reinstall rods and back into the car.

You will need a e10 so let for oem rod bolts.Also you will need a torque wrench and a micrometer or plastigage.Micrometer is more precise but a good one costs some money.plastigage will get you by in a pinch.Make sure you measure you rod bearing clearances,crank bearing clearances and axial play on the crank to make sure the engine will last.No sense of slapping it together.Thats like throwing money out the window.


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[jonan]

i've spent the better part of two weeks reading through various threads and builds other members have done...tons of info but not much in ways of how it is actually done...that is where things get murky...

so, before i attempt the job i just wanted to gather source material that i could read from (is there anything other than the bently manual?)...from what i gather most people use the the bently manual as a guide? i'm buying a condo and will finally have a garage!!! so i must christen it by pulling my motor and building it on my own...i have plenty of time as i haven't even started buying parts yet but i wanted to approach this job the same way that i manage pension assets...mitigating as much risk as possible by reading everything i can and consulting with others who have already built motors on their own...

my definite plans are:

GTRS
IE rods
tyrol sport SMIC
injectors (not sure which ones)
fuel pump (still rolling on original with 160k miles!)
braided oil and coolant lines for turbo

i've already done a ton of prep work up to this point...basically everything done in the engine strengthening thread...

my might as well while i'm in there plans (this is where i need a bit of guidance in terms of brand and quality):

bearings
pistons (i read a post by diagnosticator that the pistons are good to 500whp but at the expense of longevity)
valves
lifters
all gaskets
clean pickup screen and new oil pump (160k miles on original)
metal coolant flange

not sure what else i'm missing since this will be my first motor build...honestly, i'd rather spend the money i would have spent on labor on parts and tools and i think i'm meticulous enough to do the job on my own...unless i need a reality check, i'd appreciate that as well...

[jonan]

Yeah it's a cake job if you have the tools.Did you pull the engine??Im assuming the quote they gave you is to pull the engine disassemble and reinstall rods and back into the car.

You will need a e10 so let for oem rod bolts.Also you will need a torque wrench and a micrometer or plastigage.Micrometer is more precise but a good one costs some money.plastigage will get you by in a pinch.Make sure you measure you rod bearing clearances,crank bearing clearances and axial play on the crank to make sure the engine will last.No sense of slapping it together.Thats like throwing money out the window.


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i keep reading about plastigages, micrometers and clearances...is there a particular site or thread that i can read to really learn about measuring clearances?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Dont forget fasteners!

[PreciseD]

i keep reading about plastigages, micrometers and clearances...is there a particular site or thread that i can read to really learn about measuring clearances?

It shows you right in the Haynes book how to do it... It is very easy to do.. Plastigauge is a necessity when building an engine.. Napa sells it...

[PreciseD]

Dont forget fasteners!

This... You will need to replace all of the one time use bolts.

[KHARDa4]

Replace the thrust washers as well.

[diagnosticator]

i keep reading about plastigages, micrometers and clearances...is there a particular site or thread that i can read to really learn about measuring clearances?

You need a basic performance engine building book written for non experts that describes all the fundamentals for assembling engines. One title is "Engine Blue Printing" or similar usually available at Barns and Noble. This book details all aspects of building a performance engine from the viewpoint of insuring all the parts are actually as designed by the factory, and how to measure everything in order to be sure the engine is actually assembled to the design specifications. The text will cover everything starting with the block and cylinder head preparation, including cleaning and machine work usually done. Then details prep of all the parts like rod and main bearings and crankshaft and cam shaft installation, piston/conrod assembly and piston ring fitting details. Engine blue printing means making sure the engine actually conforms to "the blue prints", as designed by the OEM factory. This is the engine condition that is baseline for any performance modifications. The book describes everything including measuring all the parts, how to assemble the short block and head with the specified clearances, and details for balancing the engine for smoothest operation etc. This book covers all engines discussing all the general principles involved for all types and designs.

[Charles.waite]

Yeah it's a cake job if you have the tools.

Surely, you're not serious? Replacing rods is a "cake job"?? Really??

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Surely, you're not serious? Replacing rods is a "cake job"?? Really??

I agree with him. Baking cakes is hard as fuck!

[EuroxS4]

Cake job for me.Then again all i do is wrench for a living.Rebuilding motors,building motors,other repairs as well and so on is just a regular day at the shop!!!So yeah cake job!!!As long as you measure everything and its within spec.You should have any problems.I would recommend ultra slick to coat the new bearings as it protects better than regular oil on first start.I would also crank the engine with injectors or coils disconnected to get oil pressure up quick.

As others have mentioned be sure to replace fasteners that are torque to yield.You can also buy a strench gauge to measure strech on a bolt.Comes in handy!!

[H8bumps]

Do you have any clue as to which tune your going with? I know there is Motoza which is readily available, but is it me or are the tunes getting scarce?

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Do you have any clue as to which tune your going with? I know there is Motoza which is readily available, but is it me or are the tunes getting scarce?

Its you. There are plenty out there.

[jonan]

You need a basic performance engine building book written for non experts that describes all the fundamentals for assembling engines. One title is "Engine Blue Printing" or similar usually available at Barns and Noble. This book details all aspects of building a performance engine from the viewpoint of insuring all the parts are actually as designed by the factory, and how to measure everything in order to be sure the engine is actually assembled to the design specifications. The text will cover everything starting with the block and cylinder head preparation, including cleaning and machine work usually done. Then details prep of all the parts like rod and main bearings and crankshaft and cam shaft installation, piston/conrod assembly and piston ring fitting details. Engine blue printing means making sure the engine actually conforms to "the blue prints", as designed by the OEM factory. This is the engine condition that is baseline for any performance modifications. The book describes everything including measuring all the parts, how to assemble the short block and head with the specified clearances, and details for balancing the engine for smoothest operation etc. This book covers all engines discussing all the general principles involved for all types and designs.

thanks! i can't remember the last time i was this excited to actually buy a book...i'll report back after i read it over the next few weekends...



- - - Updated - - -

Do you have any clue as to which tune your going with? I know there is Motoza which is readily available, but is it me or are the tunes getting scarce?

more than likely motoza, since APR does sell the stage three software by itself for some reason...

now i just need to figure out if i want the haynes or bentley manual...any differences between the two?

[ShogunR32]

Instead of paying that shop $2500 you may be able to find a forum member who would do it for much less than that. If your worried about doing it yourself I would see if anyone local would do the job for you.

[diagnosticator]

thanks! i can't remember the last time i was this excited to actually buy a book...i'll report back after i read it over the next few weekends...



- - - Updated - - -



more than likely motoza, since APR does sell the stage three software by itself for some reason...

now i just need to figure out if i want the haynes or bentley manual...any differences between the two?

Here is another title. See URL:https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Bluepr...+blue+printing

and another:

One book may cover details the other leaves out. Can't learn to much!

[Charles.waite]

The hardback Bentley has zero info for engine internals. The Haynes is the way to go for this. I have both.

[jonan]

The hardback Bentley has zero info for engine internals. The Haynes is the way to go for this. I have both.

does the bentley CD have internal specs? if not i'll go with the haynes manual...

[diagnosticator]

The hardback Bentley has zero info for engine internals. The Haynes is the way to go for this. I have both.

The specs and clearances are in the Bentley, you just missed that info. The hard cover manual has more detail compared to the CD version. The Bentley has practically no information for any electrical or electronics troubleshooting or module coding. All that info is tied to the dealer's diagnostics computer software called Guided Fault Finding. This is a huge problem.

[diagnosticator]

i've spent the better part of two weeks reading through various threads and builds other members have done...tons of info but not much in ways of how it is actually done...that is where things get murky...

so, before i attempt the job i just wanted to gather source material that i could read from (is there anything other than the bently manual?)...from what i gather most people use the the bently manual as a guide? i'm buying a condo and will finally have a garage!!! so i must christen it by pulling my motor and building it on my own...i have plenty of time as i haven't even started buying parts yet but i wanted to approach this job the same way that i manage pension assets...mitigating as much risk as possible by reading everything i can and consulting with others who have already built motors on their own...

my definite plans are:

GTRS
IE rods
tyrol sport SMIC
injectors (not sure which ones)
fuel pump (still rolling on original with 160k miles!)
braided oil and coolant lines for turbo

i've already done a ton of prep work up to this point...basically everything done in the engine strengthening thread...

my might as well while i'm in there plans (this is where i need a bit of guidance in terms of brand and quality):

bearings
pistons (i read a post by diagnosticator that the pistons are good to 500whp but at the expense of longevity)
valves
lifters
all gaskets
clean pickup screen and new oil pump (160k miles on original)
metal coolant flange

not sure what else i'm missing since this will be my first motor build...honestly, i'd rather spend the money i would have spent on labor on parts and tools and i think i'm meticulous enough to do the job on my own...unless i need a reality check, i'd appreciate that as well...

You must have misunderstood my post. I do not believe stock pistons are suitable for more than about 220 hp max. I don't know who as used stock pistons up to 500 hp, but any build with more than about 220 hp with stock pistons is a ticking time bomb, IMO. Only forged pistons are strong enough for use in engines with more than ~220 hp. Stock AMB pistons are light weight castings.

[All_Euro]

You must have misunderstood my post. I do not believe stock pistons are suitable for more than about 220 hp max. I don't know who as used stock pistons up to 500 hp, but any build with more than about 220 hp with stock pistons is a ticking time bomb, IMO. Only forged pistons are strong enough for use in engines with more than ~220 hp. Stock AMB pistons are light weight castings.

I can’t say much about A4 pistons but the VW 1.8T pistons have been used successfully up to and a little past 500 hp... I would think they’re the same pistons but it would be worth double checking.

[migaellefebvre]

I can’t say much about A4 pistons but the VW 1.8T pistons have been used successfully up to and a little past 500 hp... I would think they’re the same pistons but it would be worth double checking.

I don't have the experience to back it up either but even integrated engineering posted an article where they stated that the pistons are good for 400-500hp.


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[KHARDa4]

You must have misunderstood my post. I do not believe stock pistons are suitable for more than about 220 hp max. I don't know who as used stock pistons up to 500 hp, but any build with more than about 220 hp with stock pistons is a ticking time bomb, IMO. Only forged pistons are strong enough for use in engines with more than ~220 hp. Stock AMB pistons are light weight castings.

Hopefully my bomb doesn't explode lol. I'm running stock pistons and I'm at or very close to 400 awp so I will let you guys know if something does indeed break.

[Charles.waite]

You must have misunderstood my post. I do not believe stock pistons are suitable for more than about 220 hp max. I don't know who as used stock pistons up to 500 hp, but any build with more than about 220 hp with stock pistons is a ticking time bomb, IMO. Only forged pistons are strong enough for use in engines with more than ~220 hp. Stock AMB pistons are light weight castings.

Not sure I've ever heard of that limit. Personally I wouldn't run Pistons much more than 2x their original horsepower.

My apr stage 1+ supposedly made 230chp. I would never in a million years even considered piston failure as the remotest possibility.

[All_Euro]

Had a quick look around and found several threads on the stock piston subject -- the wrist-pins seem to be the limiting factor...

Its not so much the pistons in question as the stockers are of decent composition albeit with less margin for error on the tuning side. Its the wrist pins you really need to worry about. Engine knock at this level of power and the deflecting pins can result in mushroomed pin bushings and ovalized pistons. Better safe then sorry. I've kicked myself on several occasions in the past...

source: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...=stock+pistons

[EuroxS4]

Stock piston are good for 350chp easy without issues.220 hp number is total bullshit.You want AEB pistons anyway semi forged and come of about 9.0 the 4 sets I had were 8.8.That being said AEB pistons can take more abuse than stock amb.Get them coated with pc9 and gold coat for the domed and your good.


Get some tool steel wrist pins.

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