Can a APR tuned ECU simply be ported to a new B6 if you also port the cluster over?

[Luxus Panzer]

just curious

[rollerton]

There is almost always a way. Not always, but almost always. But moving the cluster with the ECU wouldn't help. If the ECU doesn't have any security to prevent adapting it to a new car then you'd just match it using the SKC/coding/learning procedure.
If they have implemented a lock-down somehow then even with the cluster it could be stuck. Pretty sure that the versions of the Tunes that preclude moving the ECU around doesn't have do to with the tune so much as the OEM firmware that Audi writes to the ECU. The 'component protection' they implemented makes it a bitch on newer cars to swap any parts around- tune or no tune.

[S4NIK8]

Haven't done this with a B6 but did with a friends GLI, swapped ecu, cluster, and rfid pill from the key.

[EuroxS4]

All you need is the SKC from both ecus to adapt.Piece of cake.

[Luxus Panzer]

All you need is the SKC from both ecus to adapt.Piece of cake.

Sweet, the SKC from the cluster is the same as the SKC from the EUC, and I know how to get the SKC off cluster :)

Is there a DIY out there on this procedure (swapping tuned ECU from one B6 to another)

Thanks.

[Matt Devo]

All you need is the SKC from both ecus to adapt.Piece of cake.

Sweet, the SKC from the cluster is the same as the SKC from the EUC, and I know how to get the SKC off cluster :)

Is there a DIY out there on this procedure (swapping tuned ECU from one B6 to another)

Thanks.

I'm not sure if APR's tune does this, but many flash tunes are tied to the VIN associated with the ECU; if you pair the ECU with another cluster / change the associated VIN, the tune will reset to a detuned/stock-like state. In this case, your only option (besides paying to transfer the tune) is to have the immobilizer disabled on the tuned ECU and not pair it with the new cluster (so that the VIN doesn't change)

[EuroxS4]

I'm not sure if APR's tune does this, but many flash tunes are tied to the VIN associated with the ECU; if you pair the ECU with another cluster / change the associated VIN, the tune will reset to a detuned/stock-like state. In this case, your only option (besides paying to transfer the tune) is to have the immobilizer disabled on the tuned ECU and not pair it with the new cluster (so that the VIN doesn't change)

APR Does not do this as I just did just that.I swapped a APR Tuned ecu into my car.However if you have a apr tuned ecu the newer version you need to have a code you need to know in order to activate the tune via cruist control stalk.Once active you can select the file by holding set button.However.If you have the pin from the donor car the ecu came out of and the pin for your car.You can adapt via vcds.The issues is.That APR locks out reading ecu information like skc vin and immobilizer over OBD.Must be done on the bench and even then they move most of the maps around to different addresses.So even then its a guessing game.But theoretically skc should still be in the same address location..Unless you have the donor car the ecu came out of that be your best bet.If you have the donor car handy just read the skc from the cluster.SKC for cluster and ecu are always matching.Unless you dont want to bother with that just read it on bench and turn off immobilizer in the ecu.

[Luxus Panzer]

APR Does not do this as I just did just that.I swapped a APR Tuned ecu into my car.However if you have a apr tuned ecu the newer version you need to have a code you need to know in order to activate the tune via cruist control stalk.Once active you can select the file by holding set button.However.If you have the pin from the donor car the ecu came out of and the pin for your car.You can adapt via vcds.The issues is.That APR locks out reading ecu information like skc vin and immobilizer over OBD.Must be done on the bench and even then they move most of the maps around to different addresses.So even then its a guessing game.But theoretically skc should still be in the same address location..Unless you have the donor car the ecu came out of that be your best bet.If you have the donor car handy just read the skc from the cluster.SKC for cluster and ecu are always matching.Unless you dont want to bother with that just read it on bench and turn off immobilizer in the ecu.

Good to know. Having the SKC for both the cars is a must, understood.

" if you have a apr tuned ecu the newer version you need to have a code you need to know in order to activate the tune via cruise control stalk"

Are you are talking about the Security lockout feature??
From APR's website..
Security Lockout:
Security lockout prevents unauthorized individuals from using APR's EMCS functionality. When enabled, APR's EMCS features will appear completely invisible until a user specified 2 to 4-digit security code is entered.

I do not have this feature enabled on my APR tuned ECU

[EuroxS4]

Good to know. Having the SKC for both the cars is a must, understood.

" if you have a apr tuned ecu the newer version you need to have a code you need to know in order to activate the tune via cruise control stalk"

Are you are talking about the Security lockout feature??
From APR's website..
Security Lockout:
Security lockout prevents unauthorized individuals from using APR's EMCS functionality. When enabled, APR's EMCS features will appear completely invisible until a user specified 2 to 4-digit security code is entered.

I do not have this feature enabled on my APR tuned ECU

es security lockout featureis what i was referring to.

[MikTip]

I have 3 ECU's.

All have the IMMO off.

All 3, I can swap in and out without issue.

[Luxus Panzer]

I have 3 ECU's.

All have the IMMO off.

All 3, I can swap in and out without issue.

How hard/what is the process to get the IMMO off on a ECU?

[EuroxS4]

How hard/what is the process to get the IMMO off on a ECU?

Just as easy as getting the SKC.Personally I rather have immobilizer than not.Also what are the chances of swapping ecus??Its a pain in the ass.Quicker and easier to reflash.

[MikTip]

Just as easy as getting the SKC.Personally I rather have immobilizer than not.Also what are the chances of swapping ecus??Its a pain in the ass.Quicker and easier to reflash.

My Audi is 12 years old....not once has anyone tried to steal it.

Probably cause they know what a PITA they are to maintain!

[EuroxS4]

My Audi is 12 years old....not once has anyone tried to steal it.

my s4 is 16 years old and it got stolen last year taken for a joyride.I got it back the retrofitted immobilizer into the car.I rather have security especially when the car can be stolen with immobilizer.Here let me explain.No immobilizer easy target.Thieves put a similar key sized flat head screw drive into the lock cylinder.Pound it in with a hammer and unlock the car.Alarm never goes off.No immobilizer same procedure for the ignition lock less than a minute and car is gone.I dont like taking chances.If the car gets stolen its not getting sold.Its getting parted out for parts.

[MikTip]

my s4 is 16 years old and it got stolen last year taken for a joyride.I got it back the retrofitted immobilizer into the car.

Yah...they like the S4's better than the A4's...

Probably knew you had the immo off...

[EuroxS4]

Yah...they like the S4's better than the A4's...

Probably knew you had the immo off...

b5 s4 never had immo in the usa.Europe did.So a retrofit was necessary.

[MikTip]

b5 s4 never had immo in the usa.Europe did.So a retrofit was necessary.

So since then...any failed attempt to steal???

[EuroxS4]

So since then...any failed attempt to steal???

One earlier this year same deal except couldnt start the car this time.Car was stolen 3 times before i purchased it 8 years ago.Fixed the damage shortly after I sold the car.Thieves really like anything with a 2.7T in it a6 also allroads.

[Luxus Panzer]

Just as easy as getting the SKC.

details please.

[EuroxS4]

details please.

Need to read flash file from ecu.Then find the skc at the correct address in bin file.Cake.Or use software to calculate.

[Luxus Panzer]

Need to read flash file from ecu.Then find the skc at the correct address in bin file.Cake.Or use software to calculate.

I know how to fins the SKC, however, my question is how to use software to disable the IMMO.

Is there a "how to" / walkthru out there?

[EuroxS4]

I know how to fins the SKC, however, my question is how to use software to disable the IMMO.

Is there a "how to" / walkthru out there?

Well you need to read the flash file from ecm.From there you need to change bytes 12 and 22 from 01 to 02 then recalculate checksum before you flash back the file otherwise you will end up with a bricked ecu.

[Luxus Panzer]

Well you need to read the flash file from ecm.From there you need to change bytes 12 and 22 from 01 to 02 then recalculate checksum before you flash back the file otherwise you will end up with a bricked ecu.

I think this is a bit beyond my skills without a detailed DIY. :(

[EuroxS4]

I think this is a bit beyond my skills without a detailed DIY. :(

Well then head on over to nefmoto.Plenty of diy over there and some good people willing to help.

[MetalMan]

Hope y'all don't mind me bumping a 2-year-old thread with a relevant question...

I've got an APR Stage 3+ ECU from my old B6 6-speed (B6 is long gone, I had adapted a different stock ECU to the car's IMMO). The tune was flashed some time in 2013-2015 I believe.

It sounds like APR tunes for the B6 may tie the tune to the VIN stored in EEPROM. If IMMO is adapted to a new car and the tune detects a different VIN, then it may revert to stock. There seems to be enough of a risk that I won't attempt adapting IMMO to the buyer's car.

So, disabling IMMO is the way to go, and the buyer is fine with that. Thanks to the resources here I found very useful information and tools over on Nefmoto:

• Read EEPROM with ME7 EEPROM programmer tool.
• Change EEPROM bits to turn off IMMO, and update checksum using eepromtool.
• Write EEPROM with updated flash over bootmode with ME7 EEPROM programmer.
• Hope for the best!

[Human Garbage]

Sounds like you have it worked out.

Only thing I would add is that mine was finicky to put in bootmode. All the DIYs on Nef say ground the pin on the chip for 3-5 seconds. Mine wouldn't work like that, it needed a solid 7 seconds. So if it doesn't work with the shorter interval, try a bit longer. It was strange because I've done a half dozen 5.12 bootrom ECUs (06A 906 032xx a la Golf/Jetta) and they all work at 3-5 seconds.

I use a seizer probe to clip to the chip pin that is wired to a NO momentary switch then to an alligator clip that goes to the ground strip on the edge of the board. You hold the switch, apply power, count to seven and release the switch. Makes bootmode really easy that way. I found I needed a third arm when I did it without one and it was hit and miss. Worth the couple of bucks in parts to save the frustration. Give it a shot if you find it difficult otherwise.

I had an APR Stg 1+ on my car. I considered doing what you are attempting to recoup some cash. In the end I just reflashed it with my own bin file without touching the eeprom. It works just fine that way. Never messed with the eeprom so I can't say if pairing the ECU to another car will work. Keep us posted on that please!

[MetalMan]

Thanks for your input!

So I was halted a bit yesterday. For background, I'm using my B5 effectively as a "bench flasher, because the B6 is long gone and of course the B5 has no IMMO to interface with to the B6 ECU.

Anyways, this caused me to pause:



Looks like APR soldered in place a different EEPROM chip. The bootmode pin (pin 24) correlates as expected.
I wasn't expecting to see this thing... and I'm concerned that entering bootmode might not work out in my favor.

Also, I couldn't reallly read the EEPROM in normal OBD (non-bootmode) using ME7 EEPROM Programmer tool. Tried all the baud rates. VAG_K+CAN_Commander_v2.5 can access it just fine. So when I use that to output the ECU BIN file, and then use eepromtool to read the BIN and report on it, it kinda outputs some garbage.

Wondering if I'd need to enter bootmode to properly read this EEPROM, yet afraid of the ramifications of entering bootmode on this APR chip...

[EuroxS4]

All of APR tunes are encrypted.This looks like their emcs2.This is simply so that tunes cannot be copied.Also might have switchable maps.Either way it is encrypted.Alot will argue that reading in bootmode should in theory decrypt the tune.However this is not case as I've been through this before.It will spit out garbage unless you can break the encryption.Which as of now I think only a handful of people have done.I personally dont like cookie cutter tunes as it forces you to stick with that BRAND.Also 9 times out of 10 reading the main eeprom over OBDII is locked out which is BS if you ask me and at that point with encrypted tunes you cant even use byteshooter or winols and use a dyno to tune.You need to contact apr for revisions and so on.Not my cup of tea.I prefer byteshooter and winols personally no BS lockout over OBDII or any of that jazz.

Its a good way to go for someone thats planning on doing the basic modifications.If you want a custom tune with the ability to do revisions and log on the dyno there are much better options out there for Motronic engine management systems.

You dont need to mess with that eeprom for immo or vin.All of that is stored on 95040.This can be read and edited and flashed back all via OBD harness on the bench.However make sure you correct the checksum after turning immo off.

[MetalMan]

Thanks for the info!

You dont need to mess with that eeprom for immo or vin.All of that is stored on 95040.This can be read and edited and flashed back all via OBD harness on the bench.However make sure you correct the checksum after turning immo off.

In my prior post talking about reading the EEPROM, I was referring to the 95040 (not the tune). ME7 EEPROM Programmer tool can't seem to connect with any baud rate, so I can't read the 95040 that way. And saving the 95040 BIN when it's pulled via VAG_K+CAN_Commander_v2.5, eepromtool can't seem to read all of it correctly. At least under normal OBD (non-bootmode).

Is it safe to enter bootmode with this APR chip? And will that then allow me to get a proper read on 95040 with ME7 EEPROM Programmer tool?

[EuroxS4]

Should be ok to do I would imagine.Cant read full 95040 unless in bootmode.

[Human Garbage]

I'm not sure if it will work given the added board, but I read the eeprom off mine just fine with the non-chipped APR tuned ECU. I didn't need to bootmode to read it, just had to do it on the bench. It wouldn't read over OBD2 no matter what I did...

Note that I did not attempt to read the tune, only the eeprom. ECU worked fine after. I've heard even reading the flash portion of a APR ECU (with common tools at least) will mess it up. I should have tried it in retrospect, but I just boot mode flashed over it instead of reading it.

Mine was only a Stg 1+ so it wasn't worth saving. If you know how to scale for the injectors and raise boost, it is dead simple to DIY.