Buying an S4 - Talk Some Sense Into Me

[Badger Audi]

I'm on the verge of buying a 2005 Audi S4 this weekend with 104k miles. It has really good maintenance records and has never seen snow. The asking price is $9k, but is negotiable.

I've owned a couple A4s I the past, and I'm worried about the maintenance that a 4.2 V8 will need. My commute to work is only 3-4 miles, so the poor gas mileage isn't a concern.

It is my understanding that the V8 S4s are more reliable than the biturbo b5s, thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any input here. Cheers!

[Concavitor]

Budget $3 to 6K per year for repairs. The age and engine heat is what kills these cars over time, not miles. Everything not steel around the engine suffers much MUCH more with this car. Open the hood on one that has been running and it is like a nuclear furnace.

[zakpistols]

I say BUY It!. Enjoy it have fun with it. You obiously like it and would like to have one in your life before you hit 90yr old. Just be knowledgeable in regards to the car. Here are some tips that I think will help.
1. Keep some cash stored away for unforseen maintenance. (Not talking about tune ups, oil changes, tires etc) this cash is for timing chain or something similar.
2. Have fun with. Show it off and be proud. Its your car no one elses.
These are my thoughts and I am currently enjoying my s4. Im sure others here will chim in and give good thoughts and ideas.

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[Koopsdeville]

Ive owned 3 Audis. This is my first s4 and it's a whole new playing field. No where near the same as the a4 and I've owned the b6 3.0l and the b7 3.2l. Yes maintaining this car may mean re mortgaging ur home but it's all worth it when u let er rip. I say if u have some money to buy something u enjoy then this is it. Ya they're pricey but I also have owned 2007 legacy gt and parts for that were alot more expensive. If u buy it just do all kinds of research and replace all kinds of maintenance parts before u start toying with it. S4's r very touchy. U can have an issue with it and its like chasing a gremlin sometimes. Make sure u have it checked out by a Audi specialist . Understand that in most cases nothing is perfect. You'll probably have to replace something or another right away but if u do the right maintenance off the bat then u can have peace of mind.

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[Koopsdeville]

Also in my own personal opinion , manual is alot more aggressive and alot more enjoyable of a drive. But that's just my 2 cents

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[Koopsdeville]

I bought an extended warranty when I bought mine and its more than paid off. Just a thought . Best of luck

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[Badger Audi]

Thanks for the responses guys! Currently this S4 is at an Audi dealership going through a certified pre-owned inspection (the inspection Audi will do to the vehicles they take in before putting on their lot to sell). I told the buyer he needs to send me a copy of this inspection, before we discuss price. I am hoping that any major concern will be identified in this inspection, if any. Best case would be negotiating any expenses needed off of the selling price.

I know the valve cover gaskets are painted black - will that help with the heat of the engine at all? I do live in Texas and Summer's down here are a lot different than up in Wisco/MN.

- - - Updated - - -

I bought an extended warranty when I bought mine and its more than paid off. Just a thought . Best of luck

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How much was the extended warranty and what did it look like? Mileage cap? Year cap?

[Koopsdeville]

I paid $2800 cad for 3 years but I've owned the car since roughly November and ive already had $3100 worth of repairs done. No cap. Mines a lubrico warranty. It's called the limited superior . Covers all the major issues. Even covers a blown motor. Lubrico has a claim free for the first year as well. If u don't make a claim in ur first year u can buy an extra year for $150 which is a great deal. But we r talking Audi and you'll most likely use it for the record

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[Blackstallion]

Chains done? All about engine health - all that checks off get the piggy bank out and go buy it. Fun to car own if maintained right - Be sure to warm that engine up on those 3-4 mile work commutes - stay below 3k rpms

GL with it...

[Koopsdeville]

Chains done? All about engine health - all that checks off get the piggy bank out and go buy it. Fun to car own if maintained right - Be sure to warm that engine up on those 3-4 mile work commutes - stay below 3k rpms
GL with it...

This man speaks truth. I'd like to add that when u see the car for inspection or whatever ask that u see it while the car is cold. If there's a chain rattle you'll hear it on a cold start up

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[roboto_1337]

I've owned my 06 B7 since June and I've learned a few things...

1. Every Audi has its own personality. Definately treat it right! Warming it up is CRITICAL! They love to be pushed once they're all warmed up!

2. Budget for maintenance. Theses cars need the TLC of a caring owner... The service records are great but take a very close look at your sealing points of valve cover gaskets, head gaskets... Pull the coil packs and take a look at the plugs to determine if you're burning oil. Get a compression test done to check for ring wear... Listen for your PCV and do a finger check on the oil dip stick shute... Check your control arm bushings, tie rods, and CV boots... Verify the AC and heat work... Compressors can get expensive.

Biggest things are listen for chain rattle on startups and get a compression test done. If these check out you should be good to go. These cars are beasts with unique personalities.

[S4bro]

I paid $2800 cad for 3 years but I've owned the car since roughly November and ive already had $3100 worth of repairs done. No cap. Mines a lubrico warranty. It's called the limited superior . Covers all the major issues. Even covers a blown motor. Lubrico has a claim free for the first year as well. If u don't make a claim in ur first year u can buy an extra year for $150 which is a great deal. But we r talking Audi and you'll most likely use it for the record

I will have to check this out. My S4 has 252,000 km though. Don't know if they will cover it :(


As for OP, I had a B7 S4 before my current one. It was a nightmare. I bought it without research or inspection at the time, and it turned out needed alot of work. It was still a blast to drive.

My current B7 S4, has been a blast. Got inspection and compression test done on it before purchase, and it came with records from day 1. It is a blast to drive. So far I have only changed the fuel pump, and it is going in for valve cover gasket replacement.

Due to high mileage I do have to be on top of maintenance. But with those FI downpipes, exhaust and JHM tune I have a smile on my face all the time :)

[crc]

Top shelf oil every 5k miles + do the check valves. Will avoid chain slap on start up and hopefully save those brittle plastic chain guides. If you don't have start up rattle already this will almost surely postpone it.

The only sense I will talk in to you apart from that is buy it and own a 40 valve V8 for a portion of your life :)

[Mr.Wrong]

1. Don't buy one if you can't handle maintenance. What is all involved in regular maintenance - search.
2. If you could handle financially maintenance and still want to buy one, proper PPI is a must. What is proper PPI - search.

This has been discussed quite thoroughly, so you should be able to get answers to all your questions rather quickly and easy. Good Luck with your search

[wednesday]

Warranty from dealership would make this buy worth it. Without warranty, I would be lying to you if I said this is going to be rock solid. It is a hit or miss.

Regarding reliability compared to B5 bi-turbos, those are straight up awesome machines, but definitely not as reliable as V8 s4.

Good luck

[0396]

Budget $3 to 6K per year for repairs. The age and engine heat is what kills these cars over time, not miles. Everything not steel around the engine suffers much MUCH more with this car. Open the hood on one that has been running and it is like a nuclear furnace.

Yes, after a 30 minutes of freeway driving, if you open and crack an egg on the manifold. It will cook it. I've started opening the hood after every long drive on the freeway. Long term, those plastic connectors better not crack on me via all the high heat cycling.

[M0ve0ver]

Since you're in Austin, Brink Motorsports is a great place to go for any work that needs to be done. I've had Mike work on my S4 several times when I lived in the area.

http://brinkmotorsports.com/

[aroderick56]

Yes, after a 30 minutes of freeway driving, if you open and crack an egg on the manifold. It will cook it. I've started opening the hood after every long drive on the freeway. Long term, those plastic connectors better not crack on me via all the high heat cycling.

They will, its not if but when

[JimmyBones]

They will, its not if but when

He can at least prolong the life span a bit by doing what he is doing. I have found city driving to be more hateful on my car then highway driving though. High heat with little to no air flow really does no good with our cramped V8s.

[Badger Audi]

MESSAGE FROM SELLER BELOW REGARDING PREOWNED INSPECTION - anything to be concerned with here??

Hello,
Picked up the car and report this morning. They said it looks good and there's nothing major to be concerned with. They did highlight a few small things..

Brake fluid and and trans fluid are "dirty". It's probably close to needing a flush on both of these actually.
Small grease leak on front CV boots. I haven't noticed any grease so I think these are minor.
Control arm bushings are worn/torn and should probably be replaced.
Engine Belly pan is missing. I have this but I don't keep it on because it's just a pain when I need to change the oil.
Wheel stud caps. I'm not sure why they listed this, these wheels don't have caps.
Steering wheel is a little off center. Might need an alignment. Honestly I don't notice this when I'm driving so it must be minor.
Right rear fog light. Again this is weird, I don't think there is a fog light on the right rear, only the left rear. I don't have a warning indicator suggesting I have a bulb out.

In addition to these I'd add....
Headliner - it's sagging above the rear seat
Washer fluid - There is a leak, I think it's near the resevoir, probably a loose connection or old hose. I just haven't gotten around to fixing it because I don't go through very much washer fluid. It doesn't drain completely, but you'll notice it dripping if you completely fill the reservoir.

They said it's in great shape mechanically, nothing big to be concerned about, and no codes in the system.

Attached is the paperwork they gave me.

Best,

[Badger Audi]

Problem areas:

Both front CVs Axels are leaking
All 4 lower front control arm bushings are torn
Steering wheel is not centered while driving straight

Are any of these items or items from seller red flags/cause for concern?

I expect to have some maintenance issues, as this is an Audi, but just want to make sure nothing appears menacing.

[Badger Audi]

Since you're in Austin, Brink Motorsports is a great place to go for any work that needs to be done. I've had Mike work on my S4 several times when I lived in the area.

http://brinkmotorsports.com/

Great thanks so much for the info! I live super close to them as well!

[dsgray16]

The owner is clearly not an enthusiast..

Wheel isn't centered.. Who cares! Means the steering isn't aligned.. Did he hit a massive pothole? Who knows!

The fact that he doesn't run the skid plate tells me he doesn't really care about the car.

Also, sounds like it needs new control arms.. That won't be cheap.

I would be hesitant to buy this car because I don't think the current owner knows anything about cars, and doesn't seem to care about proper maintenance.

[Hooblah]

Lol what? I have a list of things that I need to do to my car, just because it isn't in A1 condition it doesn't mean I'm any less of an enthusiast. Perhaps his for circumstances changed and he needs rid of the car before he's had a chance to fix them? Could be one of many reasons.
I don't run my 'skidplate' (it's just a plastic undertray actually for aerodynamic reasons - a real 'skidplate' would be made from thick steel) because I'm under there so often.
My control arms need replacing but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Priorities and shit...

[badger.]

MESSAGE FROM SELLER BELOW REGARDING PREOWNED INSPECTION - anything to be concerned with here??

Hello,
Picked up the car and report this morning. They said it looks good and there's nothing major to be concerned with. They did highlight a few small things..

Brake fluid and and trans fluid are "dirty". It's probably close to needing a flush on both of these actually.
Small grease leak on front CV boots. I haven't noticed any grease so I think these are minor.
Control arm bushings are worn/torn and should probably be replaced.
Engine Belly pan is missing. I have this but I don't keep it on because it's just a pain when I need to change the oil.
Wheel stud caps. I'm not sure why they listed this, these wheels don't have caps.
Steering wheel is a little off center. Might need an alignment. Honestly I don't notice this when I'm driving so it must be minor.
Right rear fog light. Again this is weird, I don't think there is a fog light on the right rear, only the left rear. I don't have a warning indicator suggesting I have a bulb out.

In addition to these I'd add....
Headliner - it's sagging above the rear seat
Washer fluid - There is a leak, I think it's near the resevoir, probably a loose connection or old hose. I just haven't gotten around to fixing it because I don't go through very much washer fluid. It doesn't drain completely, but you'll notice it dripping if you completely fill the reservoir.

They said it's in great shape mechanically, nothing big to be concerned about, and no codes in the system.

Attached is the paperwork they gave me.

Best,

brake fluid no biggie
trans fluid = not cheap, few hundred if you don't DIY it. I don't recommend flushing, but rather drop the pan and replace filter (not cheap)
wheel stud caps, ummm each wheel stud is supposed to have a plastic cap. Not going to hurt anything if they are gone but the fact he doesn't even know they exist??
steering wheel off center means it needs and alignment and the tires could be unevenly worn, or he took it to a shitty alignment shop the last however many times...
And WTF kind of car would only have a rear fog on one side?
Washer fluid leak could be the pump or a pump connector (mine was).. keep in mind it is not very cheap for what it is, however if he says it will not drain the reservoir then it may not be the pump (which is good)
CV should def be checked further
sounds like full control arm replacement is needed but that's pretty typical for this car lol - def not cheap to replace all, maybe $500-600 if you DIY

And I may have missed it, but has there been a compression and/or leakdown test? These are the most critical...all of the above is fixable and not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but a compression test will really indicate if there are and real dealbreakers. Any comments on oil consumption?

[924Carrera]

And WTF kind of car would only have a rear fog on one side?

Most European cars, including the B5 S4. I don't know about the B6 specifically because I haven't paid attention to mine, but I wouldn't be surprised. RHD cars have it on the RH side, ours have it on the LH. The idea is that both sides illuminated would look like brake lights. However, I think this is dumb because who would drive for miles with their brakes on? I added the bulb to my B5, but if I hadn't been replacing the taillights due to being cracked, I would not have, because the original factory bulb socket boards didn't even have terminals for the RH fog bulb. I think they commonized LHD and RHD later and therefore replacement taillights have the provision for it.

[AllroadMass]

Most European cars, including the B5 S4. I don't know about the B6 specifically because I haven't paid attention to mine, but I wouldn't be surprised. RHD cars have it on the RH side, ours have it on the LH. The idea is that both sides illuminated would look like brake lights. However, I think this is dumb because who would drive for miles with their brakes on? I added the bulb to my B5, but if I hadn't been replacing the taillights due to being cracked, I would not have, because the original factory bulb socket boards didn't even have terminals for the RH fog bulb. I think they commonized LHD and RHD later and therefore replacement taillights have the provision for it.

You're correct, only the left side of the b6 s4 is wired for rear fog.

Also in my own personal opinion , manual is alot more aggressive and alot more enjoyable of a drive. But that's just my 2 cents

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[AllroadMass]

MESSAGE FROM SELLER BELOW REGARDING PREOWNED INSPECTION - anything to be concerned with here??

Hello,
Picked up the car and report this morning. They said it looks good and there's nothing major to be concerned with. They did highlight a few small things..

Brake fluid and and trans fluid are "dirty". It's probably close to needing a flush on both of these actually.
Small grease leak on front CV boots. I haven't noticed any grease so I think these are minor.
Control arm bushings are worn/torn and should probably be replaced.
Engine Belly pan is missing. I have this but I don't keep it on because it's just a pain when I need to change the oil.
Wheel stud caps. I'm not sure why they listed this, these wheels don't have caps.
Steering wheel is a little off center. Might need an alignment. Honestly I don't notice this when I'm driving so it must be minor.
Right rear fog light. Again this is weird, I don't think there is a fog light on the right rear, only the left rear. I don't have a warning indicator suggesting I have a bulb out.

In addition to these I'd add....
Headliner - it's sagging above the rear seat
Washer fluid - There is a leak, I think it's near the resevoir, probably a loose connection or old hose. I just haven't gotten around to fixing it because I don't go through very much washer fluid. It doesn't drain completely, but you'll notice it dripping if you completely fill the reservoir.

They said it's in great shape mechanically, nothing big to be concerned about, and no codes in the system.

Attached is the paperwork they gave me.

Best,

You gotta run with the belly pan not for gas mileage but for protection of the components. The alternator and ac compressor are tucked away at the bottom of the engine. I would rather not have water splashing on it consistently. Just my 2 cents.

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[Badger Audi]

Thank you all for the input! So all in all, nothing uncovered has been a real deal breaker seems like. I know it is a 10 year old vehicle and expect to put some money into it (hopefully not a ton), but the driving experience is worth it, I assume.

[Badger Audi]

Seller said his bottom dollar is $8,500 - that sounds like a good price for this vehicle. Should I work more or be happy he is where he is?

[melomandn]

Interior/exterior quality? Maybe I missed it, but has the timing maintenance been completed? Be sure to ask how much oil the car is burning as well.

If you are not going to DIY, the axles/control arms could be close to $1k right off the bat.

[roboto_1337]

Seller said his bottom dollar is $8,500 - that sounds like a good price for this vehicle. Should I work more or be happy he is where he is?

I paid $9000 CAD which is about $7000 USD.... Timing was done good compression and 187k km so 110k miles roughly... I got it from someone who was looking to move it fast to buy a boat so lucky me I guess.... If he wants 8.5 and he's firm and you're comfortable with it. I'd say go for it. Most B7s around here go for 12-15 cad

[badger.]

Most European cars, including the B5 S4. I don't know about the B6 specifically because I haven't paid attention to mine, but I wouldn't be surprised. RHD cars have it on the RH side, ours have it on the LH. The idea is that both sides illuminated would look like brake lights. However, I think this is dumb because who would drive for miles with their brakes on? I added the bulb to my B5, but if I hadn't been replacing the taillights due to being cracked, I would not have, because the original factory bulb socket boards didn't even have terminals for the RH fog bulb. I think they commonized LHD and RHD later and therefore replacement taillights have the provision for it.

well huh, TIL. When I have my fogs on, both rear lights are brighter. But when I hit the brakes, only the left side illuminates. Is that that same thing? I tried a new bulb in the right hand side but still no extra illumination when brakes + rear fogs...it's weird. Anyway, thanks for the info.


OP: The big hitters that really should be answered before any purchase (that many people have commented) but no answer yet:
1. Has timing been done?
2. Have you had a compression test done?

[kNightsfallen]

well huh, TIL. When I have my fogs on, both rear lights are brighter. But when I hit the brakes, only the left side illuminates. Is that that same thing? I tried a new bulb in the right hand side but still no extra illumination when brakes + rear fogs...it's weird. Anyway, thanks for the info.


OP: The big hitters that really should be answered before any purchase (that many people have commented) but no answer yet:
1. Has timing been done?
2. Have you had a compression test done?

It has a timing chain.... I think the original response to this thread said it best. Be prepared to spend a lot of money fixing and maintaining this car. Especially since repairs have been neglected in the past.

This engine habitually leaks oil from just about every seal.... Because even with the three radiators it has it still runs very hot.... It's just a tight space to fit a motor


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[kNightsfallen]

It has a timing chain.... I think the original response to this thread said it best. Be prepared to spend a lot of money fixing and maintaining this car. Especially since repairs have been neglected in the past.

This engine habitually leaks oil from just about every seal.... Because even with the three radiators it has it still runs very hot.... It's just a tight space to fit a motor


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Offer 7500.... Cause control arms aren't cheap. If he doesn't take it. Walk away. You can find a better car


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[924Carrera]

It has a timing chain....
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Yes, a timing chain with guides that are extremely well known for failing, driving adjusters that are extremely well known for failing.

[AllroadMass]

Offer 7500.... Cause control arms aren't cheap. If he doesn't take it. Walk away. You can find a better car


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Just bought a set for $495 @ fcp euro. I hate that I'm so proactive sometimes. So $7500 sounds good.

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[Badger Audi]

Thanks for the continued help on this guys! I'll see if I can get him closer to $7,500 on this. I am comfortable around the 8k mark so hopefully we can meet in the middle.

[Badger Audi]

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/5750552896.html

Here is the link to the posting.

[forcefed7]

Personally, I would not purchase any V8 S4 unless the seller could provide proof that the chain guides and any / all other timing components have been replaced.
The problem with these cars, is that the cost of repair for the chain guides in most cases is between 50-75% of the car's value. Thats a LOT of money to sink in to a car that you'll never get back when you sell it (I'm not talking about standard depreciation on a vehicle btw).

I considered the V8 S4 for a VERY long time, but after much deliberation I just couldn't accept the risk of chain guide failure during my ownership of the vehicle. The labor and parts are simply too expensive and when it's all said and done, if you decide to move forward with the repair you might as well keep the car for another 80-100kmi. For me, that would mean owning the car for another 5-6 years and the thought of driving a 17-18 year old car (if you decide to keep it another 5-6 years from now) just doesn't sit well with me. In the end I decided against the V8 S4 and went a different route and I do not regret it one bit.

FWIW, two of my friends are driving V8 S4s. One with 72kmi, the other with 99kmi. Both have chain slap on cold start up and both are throwing timing related codes. And both cars were previous one owner cars with service records indicating both cars were well taken care of and received regular oil changes on time.

It's your money. Do what you like, but be aware there is high risk in these cars if the chain guides haven't already been done. Good luck.