Timing chain\tensioner chatter

[Cobra351]

So I've changed the cam follower thinking it would help this sound, but that has not been the case. The old, replaced cam follower had no signs of wear at all(not sure when it was done, as I've only had the car for 2k miles- 131k now on my '06). The symptoms are basically: sound becomes apparent only as engine is warming up near operating temperature, sound is only audible below ~2,000 RPM.

Google has found this and this thread on the issue, but they're both several years old.

There is no check engine light for any cam error codes as of yet, but I don't want to wait for it to become a real, more costly problem.

I'm still looking for an in-depth DIY to address this problem, and compare it to see how much an Audi\VW mechanic will charge to do this for me- as I see that there are some special tools required. Also, should the chain be replaced as well while in there?

Video with sound of my engine:



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Muziqman]

I changed my Cam Follower yesterday. Also thought it would reduce the engine noise.. but it didn't. Mine sounds alot like yours.

[Homer]

Here's a good DIY. On a VW but it's the same thing. http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread....r-*BPY-engines
Don't cheap out on the special tools.
There's a member on audizine that will rent you the cam locking tool. Shoot me a PM if you want the info.

[pezgoon]

My mothers A4 makes this same sound and the local Audi mechanic simply said that all Audi's make it when they get older, is this definitively the Timing chain and how dire is the need to fix it?

My mothers is pretty bad and I will post a video of it here tonight as well

This is obviously a lot easier on the VW's than the Audi's huh? Trying to do it on the back of the engine is going to be downright awful (PS since he has Audi bits in there, is that just a FWD Audi? I've never seen a FWD so I didn't know whether the engine is transverse or longitudinal)

[danbfree]

This is good stuff, thanks for the discussion... We've all heard on here how important it is to do the timing belt and cam follower, but not much talk on how there is a timing chain to be serviced as well with parts kits out there for that too... So if cam follower should be done roughly every 25k and timing belt every 100k, what is the interval for the timing chain? 150k? In miles, of course, all apologies to those on the metric system.

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[Homer]

It's really not that difficult of a job if you get a small ratchet for the T30 bolts on the vac pump and cam chain cover. I think I did it in 3 - 4 hours.
No specified interval. I replaced mine at 155k and it only made a little noise on hot startups.

[Okedokey]

Get a kit from someone like ECS and I would also suggest a valve clean while you're at it.

[reno808]

I started to do it until i chain tensioner bolt broke. I took it to the shop where they had to remove the chain by taking off the cam. Apparently those bolts are super easy to round off even with the special tool.

[vvenom800tt]

Theyre easy to round off if you dont know what youre doing. Should come off like butter with the right size ratchet and someone holding pressure on it so it stays straight and doesnt slip

[reno808]

Theyre easy to round off if you dont know what youre doing. Should come off like butter with the right size ratchet and someone holding pressure on it so it stays straight and doesnt slip

annnnd i had the engine out of the car

[vvenom800tt]

Then you shouldve used an impact, fuck that bolt

[rongeur]

This guys 3 part video is pretty detailed for performing the tensioner replacement. There are three parts but here is the first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BuzsBQndgdQ

Can ya dig it!?!

[Cobra351]

That guy, and yourself are awesome! Thanks!

I really hope this car doesn't end up being a money pit.

[AudiKilla]

My car sounds similar I think, was told its normal sound of our engines. The more I read, the more I think it's cam tensioner.

Similar symptoms, engine is quite on cold start once it reaches the normal operating temperature it gets a bit louder.

I got all parts to replace cam tensioner and chain just haven't tried to open it yet. Need to get a small ratchet first though.

[miA4]

This guys 3 part video is pretty detailed for performing the tensioner replacement. There are three parts but here is the first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BuzsBQndgdQ

Can ya dig it!?!

don't forget he does it wearing a fucking tie!

[pezgoon]

He is the best dressed mechanic I have ever seen! Btw that is an awesome idea, the whole we come to you and fix your car thing... Makes me thinkins... lol

[Homer]

My car sounds similar I think, was told its normal sound of our engines. The more I read, the more I think it's cam tensioner.

Similar symptoms, engine is quite on cold start once it reaches the normal operating temperature it gets a bit louder.

I got all parts to replace cam tensioner and chain just haven't tried to open it yet. Need to get a small ratchet first though.

http://www.princessauto.com/en/detai...et/A-p8593402e

[rongeur]

anyone catch the STI sticker on the first coil? Good for at least 100oct knock suppresion on that cylinder and 10hp easy!

[reno808]

This guys 3 part video is pretty detailed for performing the tensioner replacement. There are three parts but here is the first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BuzsBQndgdQ

Can ya dig it!?!

Its actually the best video i have seen on the chain.

[Cobra351]

Does anyone think it could be the lifters? This noise was sort of like the noise on a friends B5 A4, and it ended up being the lifters. I just want to be 100% sure it is the cam chain\tensioner before I throw money at it.

[rongeur]

Does anyone think it could be the lifters? This noise was sort of like the noise on a friends B5 A4, and it ended up being the lifters. I just want to be 100% sure it is the cam chain\tensioner before I throw money at it.

Our lifters are automatically hydraulically adjusted and should not need any servicing. Not sure what format the B5 is or if the same. Your video clip sounds consistent with a defective tensioner and is a reasonable place to start as digging to the lifters will be much more costly of an investigation. You can rent an oil pressure tester and make sure you are at spec for idle. The tensioner is oil pressure adjusted as well and if it is blowing / broken, it will cause a decrease in oil pressure since there is less restriction to flow. Oil presure increased with RPM and so you may be low at lower than 2000 RPM and meeting spec above 2000rpm. On cold start, oil pressure is like 70-80 but settles to around 14-16 at idle once warm.

Just a thought.

[B72011]

Video is pretty slick and shows you a lot of the things necessary to replace the intake cam should it be so scored you cant simply swap out followers.

[80sGuy]

Excuse my ignorance but are you guys saying that we have to deal with both a timing BELT and a timing CHAIN on our 2.0T? According to the video link he is working on, it is a 4 cyl so I assume it would be a 2.0T. So is this a CAM Chain or 'Timing Chain' as described? Fuck me if I have to deal with both! New car down payment right there.

[supple]

Cam chain. We have timing belt in front.

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[80sGuy]

Cam chain. We have timing belt in front.

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What about the 3.0?

[80sGuy]

Gotcha. Disregard the above.
So it is the cam chain an NOT timing chain, unless it is a 3.0

[drmonkey]

Gotcha. Disregard the above.
So it is the cam chain an NOT timing chain, unless it is a 3.0

Correct. Timing Belt in the front that runs the exhaust cam and cam chain in the back that runs from the exhaust cam to the intake cam.

[Okedokey]

I replaced mine not that long ago. Came off easy. You definitely need the right tool, a large breaker bar and the cam locking tool. I simply gently tapped the socket into the bolt at a perfect straight angle and held pressure on it sideways while loosening it from the side of the car. Came out nice.

[drmonkey]

I replaced mine not that long ago. Came off easy. You definitely need the right tool, a large breaker bar and the cam locking tool. I simply gently tapped the socket into the bolt at a perfect straight angle and held pressure on it sideways while loosening it from the side of the car. Came out nice.

Was it difficult with such little room to work with?

[Okedokey]

Was it difficult with such little room to work with?

Are you talking about the bolt that connects to the camshaft? There is plenty of room. If you're talking about the torx bolts that attach to the vacuum pump, thats a different story. I used a special low profile ratcheting torx spanner. IN the end I used a pair of vice-grips to get one of them out. Replaced all bolts etc with new ones.

[Theiceman]

Excuse my ignorance but are you guys saying that we have to deal with both a timing BELT and a timing CHAIN on our 2.0T? According to the video link he is working on, it is a 4 cyl so I assume it would be a 2.0T. So is this a CAM Chain or 'Timing Chain' as described? Fuck me if I have to deal with both! New car down payment right there.

so bottom line is yes. You have to deal with the traditional timing belt issues at the front of the engine, and the cam chain at the back of the engine. Very commom to all 4 cylinder 16 valve engines.

On the positive side At least its not a nightmare to get to the stat on this audi ( its not underneath the timing belt ) , good job too coz it fails a fair bit. Also the alternator is 10 minute job. Way easier than theV6.

[IronAudi]

So after hearing your engines idol mine is identical to it, I wonder if I even need an engine now!!!? How much a PITA is it to change the cam itself and the chain\tensioner? Or should I have Audi fix it and stop having issues from other shops!! Has anyone done this yet?

[Cobra351]

I replaced mine not that long ago. Came off easy. You definitely need the right tool, a large breaker bar and the cam locking tool. I simply gently tapped the socket into the bolt at a perfect straight angle and held pressure on it sideways while loosening it from the side of the car. Came out nice.

And your engine had a sound similar to mine before the replacement? Did you replace just the tensioner or the chain also?

So after hearing your engines idol mine is identical to it, I wonder if I even need an engine now!!!? How much a PITA is it to change the cam itself and the chain\tensioner? Or should I have Audi fix it and stop having issues from other shops!! Has anyone done this yet?

Of course you need an engine, or else what's the point of having just a shell? Don't throw more money at the problem than you need to. Just change the tensioner, and in taking off everything you'll know if you need a cam and chain also.

[Theiceman]

So after hearing your engines idle mine is identical to it, I wonder if I even need an engine now!!!? How much a PITA is it to change the cam itself and the chain\tensioner? Or should I fix it and stop having issues from other shops!! Has anyone done this yet?

FIFY

[4rings5stars]

It's a 'fun' job, but not the most terrible if you have a fair amount of mechanical inclination and the right tools.

Definitely do a carbon clean while you're in there, for sure. I timed it with my timing belt service. I also resealed the vacuum pump, as they tend to develop leaks with age. If you can't get the special fastener off of the cam, and it seems that a goodly amount don't. In spite of what some say, no amount of tools or procedure will get them all. You will have to remove the cradle that holds the cams and go about that way. Oh, and remove the radiator support entirely and fold the condenser under the car. You'll be grateful you did!

[Okedokey]

And your engine had a sound similar to mine before the replacement? Did you replace just the tensioner or the chain also?



Of course you need an engine, or else what's the point of having just a shell? Don't throw more money at the problem than you need to. Just change the tensioner, and in taking off everything you'll know if you need a cam and chain also.

Yes, mine was ticking, but not as bad as others. I have replaced all 'failure-prone' parts on my car. I did the CC at the same time. If you're replacing the tensioner, its a 2 min further job to replace the chain, worth it. Also get new VC bolts and gaskets, new throttle gaskets and intake gaskets, new PCV gasket and injector orings, teflon seals (if you're doing the clean. Also recommend the thermostat housing change while you're at it and spray paint the VC to bring it up to a new looking condition. Be prepared to change the VC if it is worn/cracked.

[klrider44]

Just curious has there been many reports of the tensioner/cam chain failing. I believe mine sounds similar to the videos but it has been that way since I have had the car. About 2 years now. I just thought that these engines are known to be rather noisy.


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[Cobra351]

Just curious has there been many reports of the tensioner/cam chain failing. I believe mine sounds similar to the videos but it has been that way since I have had the car. About 2 years now. I just thought that these engines are known to be rather noisy.


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*sigh* the direct engine is definitely noisy, which makes this a pain to troubleshoot. I even took it to a shop, and they listened with a mechanic stethoscope- all they know is that it sounds like it's coming from around the HPFP area. Torn on what to do- spend money for someone to just take it apart and look at it?(at which I may as well replace it at that point), or just wait for a check engine code that has to do with timing advance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg1lhTlSZwE

[rongeur]

*sigh* the direct engine is definitely noisy, which makes this a pain to troubleshoot. I even took it to a shop, and they listened with a mechanic stethoscope- all they know is that it sounds like it's coming from around the HPFP area. Torn on what to do- spend money for someone to just take it apart and look at it?(at which I may as well replace it at that point), or just wait for a check engine code that has to do with timing advance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg1lhTlSZwE

If the tensioner is shot and the hydraulic metal piston has broken through the plastic rail, then you will have metal piston rubbing on the metal chain. Either the piston will give and your oil pressure will drop causing possible catastrophic issues vs the chain giving out and the cam fall out of time and valves meet pistons. Either scenario is not good. Taking off the cover is not hard and will supply the answer if the tensioner is good or bad. You could even do it your self with some cheap investment in tools.

[Okedokey]

You need to remove the HPFP either way. Do that first, replace the CAM follower and then remove the vacuum pump and timing cover and replace the rest. Worth it on these cars.