B8 S4 6MT "Push clutch to start" issues

[jimrobbington]

If anyone is affected by the notorious "Push clutch to start" message, there is a solution! If you don't have this error, but own a 6MT, you may want to take notes!

Wanted to give a shout out to the boys over at 3zero3 who have worked with me to solve the dilemma!

If you don't know, I'll try to summarize the issue as briefly as I can. Many people run into this issue after replacing their shitty OEM clutch with an aftermarket option (reports across all brands of aftermarket options), however there are reports of this same problem occurring with OEM clutches as well. When this occurs, you can typically stand on the clutch pedal, pressing add hard you can, and you can start the car, however, you will quickly destroy your slave, will get very grainy pedal feel that gets worse with heat, and will eventually lose the slave and the operation of your clutch. If you replace the slave, you will no longer be able to start the car again.

Due to the German's way of over-engineering things, and the fact that we have push-to-start, there are three magnetic switches built into the master cylinder. As the piston travels through the master when you press the pedal, these switches are activated, letting the ecu know that the pedal is pressed, and the angle at which it is pressed. The problem is the 3rd switch. The tolerances are so tight that even though aftermarket options are typically modified oem parts, many people end up being unable to activate this 3rd switch after upgrading their clutch. Many people are tricked into replacing their oem clutches for this very reason when they have plenty of life left in the clutch.

The dealer's answer to this problem? Replace clutch and flywheel with oem. Lol. Ok, let's spend $2500 to make a $5 switch activate. Idiots.

3zero3 has worked with me to devise an electrical solution that enables 100% OEM behavior. Factory lockout is still enabled, and the clutch must be pressed in half-way to initiate start sequence. It causes no EPC/CEL, cruise control, auto emergence brake disable, and hill assist your features all still work.

If you have this issue, or are worried about it in the future, feel free to PM me for more info. Whatever you do, please don't give the dealer any money when it comes to clutch issues! Take it to a real shop that knows what's actually going on!

[snolvr]

Interesting. These are the kinds of issues one needs to know about when considering replacing current Audi for newer Audi, and in my case a 6mt B8 S4.
Thanks, Jim!

[protogeoff]

I just put a deposit on a 2010 s4 6mt. Looking at the history, the dealer replaced the clutch twice (and the flywheel once) in the first 40k miles. The clutch was last done only 7k miles ago (the car is now at 47k). According to the dealer, the one-and-only owner had driven manual transmissions for 40 years... so I'm doubtful that the clutch was fully worn out both times, if ever. I started doing research and didn't like what I read in regards to how many people have had their clutches replaced multiple times and with so low mileage. I was going to get my deposit back as I was thinking that there was no hope and that all b8 s4 MT cars are hopelessly flawed without a solution.

I just stumbled upon your thread. It's given me some hope that there might be a solution to the apparent problem with the car I'm considering buying.

Reading your post it sounds like you bypass or fool the car with regards to the 3rd sensor in the master. Is that correct? How much is it? Is it easy to install? Are there any downsides to doing this?

[jimrobbington]

I just put a deposit on a 2010 s4 6mt. Looking at the history, the dealer replaced the clutch twice (and the flywheel once) in the first 40k miles. The clutch was last done only 7k miles ago (the car is now at 47k). According to the dealer, the one-and-only owner had driven manual transmissions for 40 years... so I'm doubtful that the clutch was fully worn out both times, if ever. I started doing research and didn't like what I read in regards to how many people have had their clutches replaced multiple times and with so low mileage. I was going to get my deposit back as I was thinking that there was no hope and that all b8 s4 MT cars are hopelessly flawed without a solution.

I just stumbled upon your thread. It's given me some hope that there might be a solution to the apparent problem with the car I'm considering buying.

Reading your post it sounds like you bypass or fool the car with regards to the 3rd sensor in the master. Is that correct? How much is it? Is it easy to install? Are there any downsides to doing this?

There are zero downsides if done right. I have 100% oem integration, but I paid a pretty penny for a shop to devise an oem solution for me. Looks like you can diy it for under $20 if you are up to it. You will get a CEL or the car may not start of you don't have the switch setup just right as far as sequence and timing.

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[protogeoff]

Sounds like a great idea/product.

I'm not near Colorado so I'd have to do it myself or have my local indie shop do it.

If I end up going through with the purchase, I'll PM you about how i can get my hands one one.

[jimrobbington]

Sounds like a great idea/product.

I'm not near Colorado so I'd have to do it myself or have my local indie shop do it.

If I end up going through with the purchase, I'll PM you about how i can get my hands one one.

Check out the "have to push my foot through the floor" thread. That's where a DIY solution was proposed by another member with parts and a walk through.

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[sh!tmagnet]

Pm sent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jay@JXB]

Pm sent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jimrobbington]

All PM's replied to!

Quick update, 3zero3 is working on a solution based on the prototype they did for my car that will be plug and play. They are hoping to have something available early 2017 that you can purchase and install yourself for an OEM, no fault, solution. Both S4 and S5.

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[pierreb]

All PM's replied to!

Quick update, 3zero3 is working on a solution based on the prototype they did for my car that will be plug and play. They are hoping to have something available early 2017 that you can purchase and install yourself for an OEM, no fault, solution. Both S4 and S5.

B8 A4 6MTs will want this too.

[PenttisHSR]

Any more news on this?

[Jay@JXB]

Any more news on this?

I haven't heard anything. I was told end of January by 3zero3 on the phone. I'm working on my own mechanical solution for this, hopefully it will work and I'll be able to make some more of them :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Victor Newman]

Excited about this - mine just started doing it, and I just put a new slave cylinder in, so I'd like to not kill it quickly

[dean.mohr]

Sub'd! I put a new OEM clutch in mine about 8k miles ago and randomly the last couple of days I have had to push the clutch down 2 or 3 times to get it to start.

[jimrobbington]

So we are close!

Received a call from Scott today. They have their final design completed and want to test it in my car (among other cars) before going forward. This is basically the finished product version with circuitry/harness for plug and play, whereas my car was installed with their first ever prototype. They want to ensure that I continue to have a trouble free experience with the new piece of hardware and also makes it so I'm not the only one running this one-off improvised design. Not sure where we are at on ETA yet, but we are getting close.They'll be playing with my car this weekend while I'm drinking and watching the super bowl.

[RavinJetta]

Any idea on how hard/easy the install will be?

[jimrobbington]

Any idea on how hard/easy the install will be?

It is a small box with a harness coming out both sides. It will plug directly in between the ECU and the master cylinder using the OEM harnesses. The hard part is getting to it. I believe that the ECU and wiper motor must be moved out of the way to access, but don't quote me.

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[mmm def]

Sub'd

[jimrobbington]

Sub'd

Just left 3z3 as they were testing V4 on my car. They have the S5 module complete, the S4 is still being tricky but they are close!

Sent from my SM-G930VC using Tapatalk

[pierreb]

Would an A4 module also be its own thing?

[Jordyfly]

Just lengthen those clutch slave cylinder rod by 1/4 inch. That will totally fix the problem and it takes 10 minutes to put a little spacer under the cap. Research this, it is simple and works great. If you don't like the spacer idea buy a modified slave cylinder they had a longer push rod. I know there's a member selling them just do a search. That's the easiest fix and it works great

[3zero3ms]

Jim, thanks for the shout out!

We have finally finished the prototypes for these units! We want to see your guys cars back out on the road without this annoying issue. If you guys are interested in the product we have a bunch of units ready to go and we have the instruction manual ready and built out for you DIY guys to do it all on your own. We also do installs as well if you guys need us. Lets get you guys back out on the road instead of being at the dealer running around the same problem every time it fails the same way.

Please Contact us for more details
303-456-8383x23
[email protected]

[soloist0509]

How much is it?

[jimrobbington]

Jim, thanks for the shout out!

We have finally finished the prototypes for these units! We want to see your guys cars back out on the road without this annoying issue. If you guys are interested in the product we have a bunch of units ready to go and we have the instruction manual ready and built out for you DIY guys to do it all on your own. We also do installs as well if you guys need us. Lets get you guys back out on the road instead of being at the dealer running around the same problem every time it fails the same way.

Please Contact us for more details
303-456-8383x23
[email protected]

You know it! A pleasure working with you guys as always!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AZS4 Ibis]

Help! I am original owner of 2011 S4 6spd MT and am on my 3rd clutch …124k miles. We have had intermittent issues exactly like this thread describes and has escalated to sometimes starts / sometimes doesn’t start even with clutch pedal presses to the point your foot is going to go thru the firewall. It looks like the 3zero3 shop in CO referenced in this string is no longer in business. With all the history on this issue, could someone advise me if there is a ‘fix’ or ‘part’ sold by someone in our Audi community that is a reliable long term fix for this issue. Thank you in advance to all.

[Aok303]

contact Jay@jxb he sells a solution
https://www.jxbperformance.com/produ...slave-cylinder

he is pretty active in the b8/8.5 s4 facebook page

[shreddykrueger]

^ JXB sells an extended slave that fixed my push to start issue