Amatur Hour: Project S6

[Jesse_Boyer]

First thing on deck is a manual trans swap as the 5hp24 failed. I have the trans out, 4.2l still in place, and the 01E is waiting to go in. My RS4 clutch will be here eventually (ordered from Europe.) Donor parts are coming from a 2000 A6 I bought for parts.

Short list of to-do, to-find, to-determine:

Flywheel/crank shim: I need the part number for the recommended 3-4mm shim between the 2.7t flywheel and the 4.2l crank. If anyone knows this, I'd appreciate it. This would prevent me from having to clearance the flywheel, which seems better for me at the moment.)

Deletes: what else should I do and/or remove while it's out? The cam plugs look like my 2.7 did when I removed it last year (leaking) and will be replaced. Same with the valve-cover gaskets.

What about the SAI system? I'd like to delete it if possible. Are the block-off plates the same for the 4.2 as for the 2.7? (034's plates come to mind.)

Cats will stay as this is a daily-driver and the mufflers are already gone. I may delete the rear 02's if all they do is confirm the cats are working (one less thing to worry about, one less thing to fail.)

[SteelyS6]

Awesome, glad you decided to go this route. I want to do the same.

Delete the SAI, blockoff plates are the same. Mine is deleted with the 034 plates.

After swap contact Stuklr and do the euro S6 manual tune and delete SAI and rear O2's.

Do rear main and cam bore plugs while your in there. Use genuine Audi plugs.
Look forward to seeing this!

[rollerton]

SOory I didn't get back to you with the part# for that shim. I used to have the little baggie with the part# on it, but can't find it. It's somewhere in one the the swap thread though, just need to do some more searching.
Though you can call the dealer and tell them you need the 'torque plate' from about an 02-4' 2.8L passat. There are a few but the 3-4mm one is the one you want if you have a choice.
Since you're doing it all from underneath I personally wouldn't start other projects that don't overlap much with the swap. It's just how I work; If I have a big project and take apart other stuff and things get mixed up. Having the trans OUT gives a little bit of extra room for some maintenance but it's not much different with the 01E in since it's half the size of the old trans.

[02 A6 2.7T]

SOory I didn't get back to you with the part# for that shim. I used to have the little baggie with the part# on it, but can't find it. It's somewhere in one the the swap thread though, just need to do some more searching.

Part Number 035105303A https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...05303A/ES7436/
... shamelessly stolen from your post #49 here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...thread!!/page2

[rollerton]

Part Number 035105303A https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Sit...05303A/ES7436/
... shamelessly stolen from your post #49 here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...thread!!/page2

I just found it too!

ME

It was about $24 and the # he gave me is: 035 105 303A
Quick Order
Part Number 035105303A
Part Name SHIM
MSRP $20.50
Core $0.00
Online Price $20.50

Parts guy said it was listed as 1.25mm, and intended to be installed between the bolts and the flex plate as a 'washer' on 01' Passat 2.8L...but otherwise seems identical to the 4.5mm 'shim' behind the flex plate.

Aha!

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Site...05303A/ES7436/

[A6C5V842]

Anyone know the weight saving on the swap?

I do wonder how much lighter my car is than stock.

[mr_dave]

Somewhere a little north of 100lbs.

http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/26...he-ZF-slushbox

[rollerton]

Anyone know the weight saving on the swap?

I do wonder how much lighter my car is than stock.

It's enough to make the front end feel a little 'light' after it's all done. And from my measurement the front suspension evens out about 1/2" above where it was with the TIP in there.
I'd bet that it ends up being around 160'ish lbs lighter.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Here's the shim:

http://advancedautomotion.com/shop/p...roducts_id/333


Also got kits if you need them.

[A6C5V842]

160lbs?

That's quite a weight save. The day I bought this one I felt the front end was lighter than my old auto 4.2. I feel it's doesn't push anywhere near as much in corners and that would explain why. Also the P/W is obviously up because of the weight loss so the car is physically more responsive and quicker for sure. Thanks.

[ruiz]

I have the shim that I bought from Scotty@Advanced that I ended up not using since I went with a different flywheel. I can give it to you for a fair price.

[Jesse_Boyer]

Progress update:
Auto trans is out as of yesterday. I removed the subframe entirely for super-easy access. Plus, the damn thing was flat-out filthy and I needed to pressure wash it clean.

I pulled the entire pedal assembly from the A6 and swapped it along with installing the clutch hydraulics. I haven't reinstalled the driver's side dash components as I don't have the reverse lights and clutch wiring thought out yet. (I'm mechanically inclined, but really don't like thinking about wiring.) I'll probably put it off as long as possible.

I'll have to reboot the axles and I'm not sure if one of them is salvageable at all. I'll likely call a local yard and see if they have one as I'd rather have a used OEM axle than aftermarket.

Pretty straight forward so far.

I just found it too!


It was about $24 and the # he gave me is: 035 105 303A
Quick Order
Part Number 035105303A
Part Name SHIM
MSRP $20.50
Core $0.00
Online Price $20.50

Parts guy said it was listed as 1.25mm, and intended to be installed between the bolts and the flex plate as a 'washer' on 01' Passat 2.8L...but otherwise seems identical to the 4.5mm 'shim' behind the flex plate.

Aha!

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Site...05303A/ES7436/

Here's the shim:

http://advancedautomotion.com/shop/p...roducts_id/333


Also got kits if you need them.

So, is the proper shim for an 01E to 4.2l is 1.2mm or 3-4mm thick? I just removed a shim that's 1.05 mm thick from the 5hp24 / 4.2l combo. I'm just making sure as I'll avoid the new shim if it's the same as the one I just pulled out. Having worked in manufacturing/engineering, I'd be shocked a manufacturer had a 1.2 mm shim and a 1.05 mm shim. That seems destined for confusion.

[rollerton]

So, is the proper shim for an 01E to 4.2l is 1.2mm or 3-4mm thick? I just removed a shim that's 1.05 mm thick from the 5hp24 / 4.2l combo. I'm just making sure as I'll avoid the new shim if it's the same as the one I just pulled out. Having worked in manufacturing/engineering, I'd be shocked a manufacturer had a 1.2 mm shim and a 1.05 mm shim. That seems destined for confusion.

There are a variety of thickness's of that shim for some reason. The one I originally used was 4mm thick, it'll cause you trouble. Use that part# up there to get the 1.5mm shim. That's all you need to clear the back of the block..

[ruiz]

I pulled the entire pedal assembly from the A6 and swapped it along with installing the clutch hydraulics. I haven't reinstalled the driver's side dash components as I don't have the reverse lights and clutch wiring thought out yet. (I'm mechanically inclined, but really don't like thinking about wiring.) I'll probably put it off as long as possible.


So, is the proper shim for an 01E to 4.2l is 1.2mm or 3-4mm thick? I just removed a shim that's 1.05 mm thick from the 5hp24 / 4.2l combo. I'm just making sure as I'll avoid the new shim if it's the same as the one I just pulled out. Having worked in manufacturing/engineering, I'd be shocked a manufacturer had a 1.2 mm shim and a 1.05 mm shim. That seems destined for confusion.

I was in the same position as you when it came to the electronics. I definitely put it off until I was ready to fire the car up, but I can assure you it's not as daunting as it seems. Rollerton helped me out a ton with the info.

As for the shim from the auto trans I didn't measure it but it sure as hell looked exactly like the one that I just bought. Either way though I used the one from Scotty and I had no issues before I decided to go with a new flywheel.

[Jesse_Boyer]

What about the SAI system?

Is the SAI system worth deleting? When it fails, is it relatively accessible so I could delete it later? I don't recall if I had a CEL for this at the moment, but I don't think so. By all rights, it's currently working without a CEL.

[rollerton]

The SAI system is pretty simple and actually pretty reliable in the 4.2. And there's no extra work to mess with it later, having the trans out isn't much help to ditching it if you ever want to.

[Jesse_Boyer]

Roger that, leaving it alone for the time being.

[Jesse_Boyer]

Not many updates as I wait for parts.

*I cleaned, acid washed, primed, and painted the valve covers. I really couldn't get the finish of the covers back to a nice looking aluminum, so I'm trying a self etching primer and an aluminum color which closely matched the intake. Looks nice so far, we'll see how it holds up.
*New bolts for the collector-to-downpipe, M8x45 using the original retainers.
*Valve cover gaskets, cam plugs, and flywheel install Friday.
*I'll pop the old cam plugs out ASAP to make sure they come out easy, prepping for parts arrival on Friday.

[rollerton]

While you have the Valve Covers off check the condition of the cam-chain tensioners closely. Not because you'll want to tackle that project at the same time, but it would be good to know if you need to take care of it soon. Passenger side typically fails before drivers side..due to the oil supply path I imagine? But for whatever reason usually does.
If they have noticeable grooves in them (or worse, chunks missing) then you have another project.

[Jesse_Boyer]

I checked them out a bit earlier and there is minor wear on the tensioners, but not something I considered excessive. I'll have a look again and evaluate.

[Jesse_Boyer]

I've checked cam-chain tensioners and they have very minor wear in my opinion. Leaving them alone.

My ECS package came yesterday; FedEx managed to get it to Sioux Falls and dropped it off at the USPS for delivery last week. The USPS managed to take 6 days to receive, sort, and deliver it. My RS4 clutch from across the pond took about 4-days to go door-to-door via UPS. Pretty wild.

Flywheel and clutch installed. Next up I'm afraid the trans gets to go in it's new home.

[rollerton]

Awesome! Don't you love what the USPS has done? Unless you use a Priority service then your package will be delivered or not based on random luck. And what's worse is many vendors will sell you UPS or FedEx service, but those guys now will sublet the part of the shipping to the USPS so they don't have to deliver it.
So it goes across the country pretty quick, then USPS gets ahold of it and sends it to Alaska and stomps on it.

How many miles on the engine? Totally up to you, but if you're anywhere near 150k I'd seriously consider swapping the drivers side tensioner or at least the pads. Drivers side is the one that seems to last the longest but you have to basically do a timing belt service to replace that one. Passenger side you can get away with much easier..with the TB off it's an extra hour and $15 to swap the pads.
You probably don't need to...but what a Bitch if it started rattling in 6 months!

[Jesse_Boyer]

The timing belt is due in about 20k miles (with some safety margin) and I think I'll put pads on them at that time. I have the cam tensioner and half-moon gaskets anyway, but I'd like to know if this thing even works at all. I have literally 5-miles on the S6 and even less miles on the 01E, so it all needs to be proven to function at least a little bit before I toss much more money at it.

It's really just going to be a toy to build and won't see many miles. I wanted something with a V8 and a manual and a G8 GXP is just insanely priced.

Wiring: I despise wiring. How much is a flight from WA to South Dakota?

[rollerton]

Wiring: I despise wiring. How much is a flight from WA to South Dakota?

You mean the 01E conversion wiring..? Dude...it's so simple. One wire from ECU pin 39 to the clutch position switch. And other pin on that switch goes to brake light signal.
THAT is basically it.
You can 'jump' / disable the clutch safety switch, or simply run ground through the clutch interlock switch to the interlock relay (it normally comes from shifter mechanism park/ neutral to allow ignition).
Last is reverse lights. You have two connections on the trans-switch. One should be keyed 12V (from any source you want really, but that can be found in the HUGE auto trans plug). The other is the wire that goes back to the reverse lights. That wire is also in the huge trans plug you will tape off and tie way up out of the way.

That's it..and I haven't done a swap in 3 years..

[Jesse_Boyer]

The manual transmission is in place, but one of the starter bolts hits the roughly 10 millimeter thick spacer from the A6 donor. I'm all but sure the spacer needs to be included, and I just need to clearance for that Bolt. Can someone please confirm ASAP?

[rollerton]

The manual transmission is in place, but one of the starter bolts hits the roughly 10 millimeter thick spacer from the A6 donor. I'm all but sure the spacer needs to be included, and I just need to clearance for that Bolt. Can someone please confirm ASAP?

You have to grind out that one bolt hole in the spacer. The automatic doesn't use it.. It's always something.

[Jesse_Boyer]

That's what I assumed, so I went for it.

Trans mount brackets? Use the 01E Brackets or the ones from the auto?

Exhaust hangers? Will those line up at the same spot as the ones from a 2.7 (on the trans.)

[02 A6 2.7T]

That's what I assumed, so I went for it.

Trans mount brackets? Use the 01E Brackets or the ones from the auto?

Exhaust hangers? Will those line up at the same spot as the ones from a 2.7 (on the trans.)

Use the 01E brackets (TIP ones won't fit). I don't believe the exhaust hanger brackets will line up (I'm running without them currently).

[Jesse_Boyer]

There is a sensor just above the pass side trans mount and I can't locate the plug. I assume it has to do with gear selection as its right by the detente, but I could be wrong.

Sleep deprived, seems like this should be easy

[rollerton]

Up kind of high on passenger side is the reverse switch. You won't have that because it's built into the auto trans. Supposed to get the pigtail from the donor car to wire in...

[Jesse_Boyer]

http://i.imgur.com/1UQnCvA.jpg

Will steal reverse switch from donor... It's in the driveway

[Jesse_Boyer]

https://imgur.com/gallery/OAEip

Having a little trouble. I think the 3 plugs hanging from the car are auto trans connections and the other harness extends to the auto trans too. Anyone confirm?

I've yet to do any manual swap wiring, but I thought it should start at this point. No go though... No starter movement at all. Little frustrated, but I'll check over some more connections tonight.

[02 A6 2.7T]

https://imgur.com/gallery/OAEip

Having a little trouble. I think the 3 plugs hanging from the car are auto trans connections and the other harness extends to the auto trans too. Anyone confirm?

I've yet to. Do any manual swap wiring, but I think it should start at this point. No go tho. No starter movement at all.

Not sure if you've jumpered the starter interlock relay yet as Bob mentioned in post#24 above ...

see post #17 here http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...al-swap-wiring for pics and more detail :

[Jesse_Boyer]

I have not, but reading/comprehending that thread immediately and trying to do part of it this evening is on the top of the list.

What normally takes care of that starter interlock relay? IE, what would open/close it to make the starter available to draw power?

[02 A6 2.7T]

I have not, but reading/comprehending that thread immediately and trying to do part of it this evening is on the top of the list.

What normally takes care of that starter interlock relay? IE, what would open/close it to make the starter available to draw power?

There is a secondary clutch switch on the pedal cluster near the clutch pedal pivot (NOT the one next to the brake light switch) which is closed only when the clutch is fully depressed. That can be wired into the existing interlock relay (the one which was removed in the pic above). I'll look to see if I have a link to a post showing the wiring needed to go that route.

[Jesse_Boyer]

Understand, I think. However, if I jump that starter relay, I wouldn't immediately need that secondary clutch switch, correct?

[rollerton]

Understand, I think. However, if I jump that starter relay, I wouldn't immediately need that secondary clutch switch, correct?

Correct.
When it's an Auto the shifter being in P or N grounds that relay and allows the starter to crank. Jumping the wire like in the pic ^ bypasses that.
When you wire it up for the clutch safety switch you run the ground (that was coming previously from the shifter) through the clutch switch (actually just cut the wire at the relay and run a short length to the clutch switch).
So that when the clutch is pressed it grounds the relay and allows the starter to work.

[Jesse_Boyer]

At this point I'm almost digging the idea of the harness from Scottie, but it's on back-order at the moment. Thus, i'm following roller's guidance as best as I can:

#1. What I call the clutch position (or cruise control) switch is the one next to the brake pedal switch and looks similar. The walkthrough from Audis4parts.com should say which wire to jump FROM the brake pedal switch TO the clutch switch, and the OTHER wire on the clutch switch goes to ECU pin #39 (it doesn't matter WHICH wire on the clutch switch itself goes to which connector: {PIN#39 / brake switch}, the clutch position switch is simply open/close ciruit).

#2. The "OTHER" clutch (clutch interlock) switch is the smaller switch on it's own bracket that keeps the starter from engaging unless the clutch is pressed down. What you need to accomplish with that one is to simply wire it in between the ground and the starter relay (this ciruit was previously completed by having the shifter in either park or neutral)- so that pressing the clutch grounds the relay. I need to clean my wiring up on that- you CAN simply bypass that whole thing by pulling the relay and jumping a wire between the two connectors > | -- < that are horizontal in that relay plug.
Sorry, that's confusing!

#3. What I did was use a test light at the F125 connector under the car: Put car in reverse and find which wire in the F125 connector turns the test light ON when in reverse. Cut the wire and wire and jump it TO the reverse switch (pigtail connector) on the trans. Can't remember which wire goes TO the lights from the F125 connector, but obviously the ONE wire from the reverse switch on the trans goes to the lights AND THE other IS keyed +12v to supply power through the reverse switch and out TO the reverse lights.
^edited that to make sense^

To my knowledge, there are four wires on the brake pedal switch. Ground, correct? (per your diagram below)
From the clutch pedal switch, I'll route it to pin 39... somehow.


If I get time, I'll clutch/starter interlock wired in permanently. However, the clutch interlock will be taken care of, at least temporarily, by bypassing the secondary clutch switch as shown here:
[/QUOTE]

The reverse lights may wait, honestly. I can't find my pigtail and I'm not sure if the one I ordered will be here tomorrow or not. As far as I know, that's only something that runs the lights, not used for starting/driving, correct?

[PZ.]

The 01E with a lightweight AL flywheel and RS4 clutch weighs 194 lbs.

The 2 larger plugs are for the trans (valve body plug and multi-function/range sensor). Not sure about the 3rd (maybe a motor mount?) , as I did swaps on a 2.8 and then a 1.8T.

The downside of the clutch interlock jump is 1: you can start the car in gear (even though people know this, it still happens) and 2: the rpms float when you shift as the throttle does not close as fast as it would with the switch properly wired.

And yes, the pedals really are the worst part of the job!

[Jesse_Boyer]

The clutch interlock will only be temporary. Happy to report it fired right up after I bypassed the starter relay.

Brakes and clutch bled. Pretty easy with the motive pressure bleeder.

Waiting on axles, then I'll take it for a brief test voyage to make sure all is right with the swap.