Shooting In the Dark at Oil Consumption, Sorta.

[brandonpham]

Hey All,

So I've been dealing with consumption for quite some time which used to be at 700-800 miles and has been consistently at 400 miles/qt these past few months which have also been hot temperature wise. The car gets a mix of local/highway driving. I only drive 2 miles to the train for work, but drive around after that around town or wherever I need to go.

Compression test:

180
175
180
174

So that passed. Car smoked a few times, white, during cold start in the freezing temps. Car only has 034 TP and stock turbo and exhaust. A few times I've drove it, parked, ran into a store for 10 min, came out, started it and idled for a bit, then when i go into reverse i see puffs of smoke. From my friends following me, theres no consistency to when my car will randomly blow some clouds of smoke which are white. It's random. I can't purposely replicate it. At idle, if i rev it up and bounce it off limiter it will shoot some black clouds.

I recently took a 200 mile highway roundtrip down south and back. My oil consumption is consistently around 400-425 miles a quart. With this highway trip, it is still at 500 miles without oil light hitting yet. There is minimal if any oil in the intercooler pipes. I am running a BFI Catch Can which doesn't get too much oil if any really. Car boosts fine, sometimes stock i can hit 12 lbs but consistently 10 lbs.

The few times I've put it up on the lift, i noticed oil on the belly pan and some drips at the drain bolt but drain bolt and washer is def not the source of a leak. No oil on the ground ever wherever I park. Oil filter housing and cooler housing gaskets needs to be done.

The recent highway trip is the only time I noticed the quart go passed the 400-425 mile mark. So, just curious on anyone's ideas? The symptoms of my car just seem odd to rule turbo or rings or valve seals. I can start the car every morning these past months and let it idle and it will not smoke.

The only thing I can think of where it will smoke is the occasional car off, then car back on and idle then it will randomly start smoking for maybe 10-15 seconds of white smoke.



Been using Rotella T6 with MANN filters.

[Low and Behold]

Hmm. I've wrestled with oil consumption quite a bit and finally put an end to it (I think) by replacing my valve cover (again...)

I would also check your PCVs both front and rear. Do you have crazy amounts of oil pooling up in your IC piping?

[brandonpham]

Hmm. I've wrestled with oil consumption quite a bit and finally put an end to it (I think) by replacing my valve cover (again...)

I would also check your PCVs both front and rear. Do you have crazy amounts of oil pooling up in your IC piping?

Pcv replaced by catch can, no oil in ic pipes really.

[Okedokey]

Yeah have a look at your VC.

[Low and Behold]

Yeah have a look at your VC.

Well if theres no oil in the IC piping then the VC must be doing its job. I don't know where else the oil would end up. Its worth checking and replacing the gasket still.

Now the turbo... even if its boosting fine it could still have a bad oil seal. And that oil is under a lot of pressure, so a bad seal can eat oil very quickly. Just a thought since you have no oil in your intercoolers and good compression

[aluthman]

Your situation sounds a lot like mine was. Mine ended up being rings, even though compression was good. After the new engine went in, not a drop of oil has disappeared in 5k miles.

[trj]

I am in the process of replacing the turbo because of same symptoms of oil consumption. Finally one day boom, a big cloud of smoke from exhaust. Went through a quart of oil in 90 miles. Pulled the IC pipes, not much oil. But the intake hose to turbo had a lot of oil. Even MAF was quoted with oil. This was after two pcv and breather hose within two weeks.

[brandonpham]

Well if theres no oil in the IC piping then the VC must be doing its job. I don't know where else the oil would end up. Its worth checking and replacing the gasket still.

Now the turbo... even if its boosting fine it could still have a bad oil seal. And that oil is under a lot of pressure, so a bad seal can eat oil very quickly. Just a thought since you have no oil in your intercoolers and good compression

See, this is what I want to believe, but no consistent smoke however after yesterday.

1. Got in my car after work.
2. Started and idled until RPMs dropped.
3. Drove locally to highway for about 10-15 minutes until I got to my girl's house.
4. Turned off the car, checked the oil before light even came on (507 miles) and it was right at the low for the dip stick so I added oil. So car was off for about 10 minutes.
5. Turned the car on and idled for about 5 minutes to think of where to eat.
6. Put the car in first, hit the gas and boom cloud of white smoke started spreading around the street.
7. Got out the car to see smoke coming out as it idled, just a bit of smoke.
8. Got back in to go again, but smoke was gone at this point.

Also, after getting food later on I drove for about 5 minutes and had a car behind me with HIDs so it was lit up. Did a pull in second and saw smoke as his HIDs helped me. Did 2 or 3 pulls from second and saw smoke each time. Then as I drove more I couldn't duplicate it.



I also want to say rings because of your situation Adam, but the previously built-motor you had has me wondering as mine is stock. I want to say its turbo seals, but i figured the car would smoke once I get off the gas. Car shows literally no other symptoms and runs/pulls hard for stock tune especially in 2nd, however I guess it maybe still could be the turbo?


I'll have to take another look at my intake hose/breather hose/IC pipes again, but I'm picking up my 350Z Saturday so it may be on the back burner. Looking forward to your results on the turbo @trj as I've seen one locally with 65k miles for $400 I wanna pickup, but if I get the Z I can just rebuild my turbo and drive the Z for work.

I really really wanna keep the Audi as my daily for winter and such, but the consumption is so killer. She should be tuned now! Thankfully Rotella T6 goes on sale around here for $20 a jug so I don't completely hate having to add oil.

[Low and Behold]

Yeah if you have another car you can drive in the meantime, I would maybe pull the turbo and rebuild it. Fairly easy and fun. And cheap.

This would at least rule the turbo out. Whats your mileage?

[Charles.waite]

Rebuilding the turbo is a good diagnostic step, but I would go one step further and buy a spare used turbo and rebuild that. Reason being, unless youre REALLY careful/precise or you pay to get your CHRA balanced after the rebuild its never going to be quite balanced and won't have the longevity of a balanced turbo.

If you get a secondhand one, you can rebuild it and pop it on and if the consumption doesn't go away, you can throw your original turbo back on and still have a properly balanced turbo. If the "new" turbo solves the oil consumption then you know the seals were bad. Then you can just rebuild your old turbo and sell it or sell it as is, and make back some $$.

Now if you don't really care about that then don't worry about it. Just throwing an idea out there.

[Low and Behold]

Thats almost exactly what I did with mine. Now I have an extra turbo laying around in case something happens

[KJack]

Cracked valve cover. Check that before you spend time and money to rebuild the turbo.

[Charles.waite]

Cracked valve cover. Check that before you spend time and money to rebuild the turbo.

That's not a certainty at all. As many times you hear of people replacing that and fixing it, you hear just as many (myself included) where that did nothing. I spent $300 on a new VC and PCV and all I got were non-leaky VC bolts and peace of mind...

[KJack]

That's not a certainty at all. As many times you hear of people replacing that and fixing it, you hear just as many (myself included) where that did nothing. I spent $300 on a new VC and PCV and all I got were non-leaky VC bolts and peace of mind...

You're right, it's not a certainty but it's definitely worth checking before replacing the turbo. I like to start with checking the smaller ticket items rather than jumping to an expensive component that may or may not be the problem.

[aluthman]

You're right, it's not a certainty but it's definitely worth checking before replacing the turbo. I like to start with checking the smaller ticket items rather than jumping to an expensive component that may or may not be the problem.

Rebuilding the turbo is way cheaper than buying a new valve cover.

[KJack]

Rebuilding the turbo is way cheaper than buying a new valve cover.

Exactly, which is why I suggested to check the valve cover first. If the valve cover is good, no need to buy a new one.

[mgfranz]

I also want to say rings because of your situation Adam, but the previously built-motor you had has me wondering as mine is stock. I want to say its turbo seals, but i figured the car would smoke once I get off the gas. Car shows literally no other symptoms and runs/pulls hard for stock tune especially in 2nd, however I guess it maybe still could be the turbo?

In the old days, rings would be ruled out under this situation simply due to the fact that rings only blow upon deceleration, valves blow upon acceleration. In other words, if you stand on the throttle and you get oil blow from your exhaust, you had bad valve guides. If you had oil blow upon down shift or deceleration, then you had bad rings. Compression test was rarely able to pick up bad rings, leak-down test was the only way to verify bad rings. Valves were easy, cylinder wouldn't hold compression.

Since the OP stated he had 175-185psi compression, I would be leaning into more of the ancillary parts..

[Charles.waite]

My engine has decent oil consumption (1qt/1400miles) and I'm fairly certain it's the rings.

I was under the impression that a good rest to rule out valves was to coast down a hill off throttle then floor it at the bottom. If you get smoke then it's bad valve seals/guides.

And with rings, you can have good compression but a borked oil scraper ring. So oil gets left in the combustion chamber and burned.

[brandonpham]

I have yet to check the Valve Cover since doing the gasket just under a year ago to be honest, however as mentioned those IC pipes are dry. I've read up on oil flow several times and unless I'm blowing smoke more consistently OR the IC pipes have oil, the VC should be fine in my opinion. I've checked IC pipes before in 1000-1500 mile intervals and at times had nothing pour out. Its been a bit so I might check again, but doubt it.

The oil scraper rings is what I'm thinking also since compression is good. Rebuilding the turbo is possible, i also found a local 65k mile turbo from a 2008 A4 for $400 I'm considering grabbing. I just hate the inconsistency of the smoke and the signs.

I will mention, that if I put cardboard behind the exhaust about a foot away and rev it up to bounce redline it will look like i took spray paint and sprayed it on, except its just all black soot. Not sure what this can mean. I can always do a leakdown test as we have one at the shop, but its just been the uncertainty of the tests and odd signs I've been seeing however the oil consumption is so high its ridiculous. The car definitely smells at idle with the windows down too, but again I have a test pipe.

I remember when I pulled the new plugs after the new gasket twice after about 5 or 6 thousand miles. They weren't really wet with oil, but black and had some soot.

[Charles.waite]

Just as a point of reference, I bought my used turbo for $100 + shipping. $400 is not a deal unless its pristine. I see them fairly often on craigslist around me for $200.

And having that test pipe is probably why you get the oily spraypaint. I don't get that but I'm running the stock cat which likely burns off all the oil before it makes it out the tailpipe. Really bad for the longevity of the cat.

[brandonpham]

Just as a point of reference, I bought my used turbo for $100 + shipping. $400 is not a deal unless its pristine. I see them fairly often on craigslist around me for $200.

And having that test pipe is probably why you get the oily spraypaint. I don't get that but I'm running the stock cat which likely burns off all the oil before it makes it out the tailpipe. Really bad for the longevity of the cat.

I definitely see the TP as the reason, however I wouldn't say the amount you see is normal even considering a TP. It is also wet sometimes as if its literally spraying some oil.

400 was the asking price which I can bargain, but not a lot of low mileage b7 turbos pop up around here for low prices.

[yeoj112689]

Just as a point of reference, I bought my used turbo for $100 + shipping. $400 is not a deal unless its pristine. I see them fairly often on craigslist around me for $200.

And having that test pipe is probably why you get the oily spraypaint. I don't get that but I'm running the stock cat which likely burns off all the oil before it makes it out the tailpipe. Really bad for the longevity of the cat.

It is not the best chance but they have turbos in junk yards around here for under $100 if you can talk them down. I have thought about buying a couple and rebuilding them but there is a risk with a junk yard turbo and I don't have any experience lol.

[Charles.waite]

I definitely see the TP as the reason, however I wouldn't say the amount you see is normal even considering a TP. It is also wet sometimes as if its literally spraying some oil.

400 was the asking price which I can bargain, but not a lot of low mileage b7 turbos pop up around here for low prices.

Oh sorry, I wasn't blaming the TP as the SOURCE of the oil, simply saying thats why its shooting out. If you had a cat it would burn up before being able to spray out like that. So in my case, since I'm catted, I see whisps of blue-ish smoke since the oil is vaporizing in the cat rather than simply spraying out like your car.

[yeoj112689]

Oh sorry, I wasn't blaming the TP as the SOURCE of the oil, simply saying thats why its shooting out. If you had a cat it would burn up before being able to spray out like that. So in my case, since I'm catted, I see whisps of blue-ish smoke since the oil is vaporizing in the cat rather than simply spraying out like your car.

Wouldn't oil be blue anyway? White is coolant correct?

[brandonpham]

Wouldn't oil be blue anyway? White is coolant correct?

Did I forget to mention I'm color blind? LOL.

Seriously though, I am. I definitely know what burnt oil blue smoke looks like, but I may not notice that the smoke has hints of blue. I believe last time someone saw it they said it was white.

Coolant level has been steady for months, literally.

[yeoj112689]

Did I forget to mention I'm color blind? LOL.

Seriously though, I am. I definitely know what burnt oil blue smoke looks like, but I may not notice that the smoke has hints of blue. I believe last time someone saw it they said it was white.

Coolant level has been steady for months, literally.

Well unless I am mistaken oil is normally a blueish color. But yeah there is not mistaken burnt oil smell lol yum.

[Charles.waite]

Burned oils smells very different than burned coolant as you guys said. Its a VERY subtle blue. Often people say its white. Mostly I mean to distinguish it from black smoke which is normally from running super rich and is from unburned fuel and soot.

[vce1232000]

If he was burning coolant he could @ the coolant reservoir

[brandonpham]

Update, haven't been driving the audi much this weekend except to pick up my 350z lol. Trip is at 405 miles right now so oil light should come on soon, or maybe 450ish since I drove it on the 100 mile highway trip.

Think I'm gonna drop the downpipe and check for shaft play, but still don't think thats enough to determine if the seals are the cause of this.

[aluthman]

Update, haven't been driving the audi much this weekend except to pick up my 350z lol. Trip is at 405 miles right now so oil light should come on soon, or maybe 450ish since I drove it on the 100 mile highway trip.

Think I'm gonna drop the downpipe and check for shaft play, but still don't think thats enough to determine if the seals are the cause of this.

Just buy my used engine :-)