A7 Stage 2 and intake charge temp

[SlickMachine]

APR stage 2 3.0T.
The last several weeks have been 90°+ here in humid northeast Ohio. I'm noticing a good drop off in power at higher rpm in this hot weather which I think is safe to assume is caused by very hot charge temps at higher boost...engine senses this and retards timing or opens bypass valve, or whatever it does to prevent detonation. I know there is an intercooler upgrade for the S4/5 from APR that separates out the intercooler from the engines cooling system and gives it its own heat exchanger. Anyone know if there is a kit available for us on the A6/7 anywhere? How about anyone that has pieces together a system themselves? I haven't been able to find anything.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[14S4GWM]

Theres 4 or 5 now for the S4. Look around, apr is coming out with a new one in a bit.

[LINDW4LL]

While I haven't heard of it being done on any C7 cars, I'd guess the B8 S4 kits would fit your A7 with little to no modification. I know people have installed the S4/S5 kits on the Q5 3.0T without issue.

AWE and AMS both offer full kits, or there is a company called PLM that sells an upgraded heat exchanger alone for $895. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLM-Audi-S4-...25.m3641.l6368

The stock heat exchanger is puny so even just the larger heat exchanger (without an upgraded pump) has a nice effect.

[tenspeed]

Here's a intercooler DIY thread - http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-c...t-diy-2892751/

[ntsantos]

Tons of posts on this from the B8 S4 thread. I personally don't think the big name brand kits are worth the money. You could piece together the same thing for about $300, versus the $800-1800 the name brands charge, with the same performance.

After a lot of research myself, the only aftermarket cooling solution I would think is worth the money would be a Killer Chiller setup. The supercharged muscle car guys have been doing for a while getting 20*C IATs in 100 deg weather.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

Excellent. Thx for the links. I googled this several times over the past few days and never saw that thread on Audiworld.
So apparently the c7 intercooler does indeed have it's own heat exchanger, it just shares the overflow tank with engine, presumably some coolant being shared.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

Tons of posts on this from the B8 S4 thread. I personally don't think the big name brand kits are worth the money. You could piece together the same thing for about $300, versus the $800-1800 the name brands charge, with the same performance.

After a lot of research myself, the only aftermarket cooling solution I would think is worth the money would be a Killer Chiller setup. The supercharged muscle car guys have been doing for a while getting 20*C IATs in 100 deg weather.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I completely agree. 1800$ is ridiculous.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

Here's a intercooler DIY thread - http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-c...t-diy-2892751/

So he uses a larger heat exchanger and comes up with worse cooling... I don't see how that is possible given the laws of physics as long as there was no air in the system, flow rate the same etc.. Really cool experiment though.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

After a lot of research myself, the only aftermarket cooling solution I would think is worth the money would be a Killer Chiller setup. The supercharged muscle car guys have been doing for a while getting 20*C IATs in 100 deg weather.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

This is really friggin cool. Are you thinking of doing it?
I'm wondering what that does to your AC system performance. Using the Universal Kit, if I'm looking at this right, you're just tapping into the AC loop and running the pre-intercooler water through that small block which is cooled by AC...


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

I found a few truck forums of guys running the KC kit saying that it absolutely kills your cabin cooling. That would be a deal-breaker for me. I doubt all the extra hardware of the stand alone 12v compressor kit would fit in our cars.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

I found a few truck forums of guys running the KC kit saying that it absolutely kills your cabin cooling. That would be a deal-breaker for me. I doubt all the extra hardware of the stand alone 12v compressor kit would fit in our cars.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Even with the KC kit priced at around $700ish, if one were fairly mechanically inclined, I think it can be replicated for a lot less. The KC system just uses a small water to water plate heat exchanger which I've seen for less than $100. The rest of the kit is just heater hose.

I spent a little time trying figure out how to piece together a standalone system. The only component that is hard to find cheap would be the 12V AC compressor. I think everything else could fit near the crash bar.

[SlickMachine]

Even with the KC kit priced at around $700ish, if one were fairly mechanically inclined, I think it can be replicated for a lot less. The KC system just uses a small water to water plate heat exchanger which I've seen for less than $100. The rest of the kit is just heater hose.

I spent a little time trying figure out how to piece together a standalone system. The only component that is hard to find cheap would be the 12V AC compressor. I think everything else could fit near the crash bar.

Right on.
I like the AWE system as it's modular. I have a theory on best bang for buck and that is using the AWE Cold Front hi flow coolant pump (-6.2° as per AWE) and adding a second OEM intercooler heat exchanger up front on topside of radiator in the airflow. OEM exchanger is 188$ at ECS Tuning. You would just need the small amount of extra plumbing and a way to mount it. So you would be increasing coolant flow by 100% according to AWE as well as increasing the front heat exchanger capacity by 100%. The pump seems expensive at 695$.. Maybe could do better somewhere else but total cost of this system is 900$ plus plumbing

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

Right on.
I like the AWE system as it's modular. I have a theory on best bang for buck and that is using the AWE Cold Front hi flow coolant pump (-6.2° as per AWE) and adding a second OEM intercooler heat exchanger up front on topside of radiator in the airflow. OEM exchanger is 188$ at ECS Tuning. You would just need the small amount of extra plumbing and a way to mount it. So you would be increasing coolant flow by 100% according to AWE as well as increasing the front heat exchanger capacity by 100%. The pump seems expensive at 695$.. Maybe could do better somewhere else but total cost of this system is 900$ plus plumbing

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

You can get the same pump from amazon, Jabsco I think for like $220. You can also wire it the same way awe does without their harness. It will turn the pump on when the ecu turns on.

[SlickMachine]

You can get the same pump from amazon, Jabsco I think for like $220. You can also wire it the same way awe does without their harness. It will turn the pump on when the ecu turns on.

I just finished researching that, thanks.
I believe I found the pump they are using here for 241$ from Meziere directly. It is a 20 GPM pump. After some serious searching I believe I found that the stock pump is 13GPM, so the Meziere pump is 7 more GPM, so if that is the correct pump its not quite the 100% flow increase AWE is claiming.
As far as wiring, what does AWE do different than Audi? What does that harness accomplish?

[Adrenalin Junki]

I think it we/you would also benefit from separating the cooling systems. If you don't separate them then your operating temp will be the same. If we have a 200degree thermostat and a presurized system then the same coolant is flowing threw all the same components. Of you separate the systems then you can better control the temp of the SC coolant. Maybe even flush the SC system and fill with engine ice coolant. This is Just my opinion but I think separating with standalone resivor and maybe an added heat exchanger is the best hang for buck.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

I think it we/you would also benefit from separating the cooling systems. If you don't separate them then your operating temp will be the same. If we have a 200degree thermostat and a presurized system then the same coolant is flowing threw all the same components. Of you separate the systems then you can better control the temp of the SC coolant. Maybe even flush the SC system and fill with engine ice coolant. This is Just my opinion but I think separating with standalone resivor and maybe an added heat exchanger is the best hang for buck.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Ok, good stuff. I agree, it would be pointless to circulate engine coolant through the intercooler at a faster rate, lol

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[2wookies]

Do we know for a fact the B8 S4 intercooler will fit no problem??

[SlickMachine]

Do we know for a fact the B8 S4 intercooler will fit no problem??

Do you mean the heat exchanger..? If so, I don't think it will fit...I'm looking at the two side by side and although the size is similar, the end caps, connections are different. Part numbers see quite different as well.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Adrenalin Junki]

I'm pretty sure any of the kits offered for a b8 S4 will fit. There is plenty of clearance between the bumper has and A/C condensor.
You may have to fab a bracket to mount the exchanger.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

You may also still be able to jump on a group buy from PLM. They were doing a special with the HX plus reservoir for 800 shipped. Not bad.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

Ok, good stuff. I agree, it would be pointless to circulate engine coolant through the intercooler at a faster rate, lol

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I don't think the SC circuit and engine circuit run at the same temp. They are coonected but only share the coolant reservoir for expansion. Also know that if you divorce, you lose the low coolant warning, so you'll have to periodically check the level.

[SlickMachine]

I don't think the SC circuit and engine circuit run at the same temp. They are coonected but only share the coolant reservoir for expansion. Also know that if you divorce, you lose the low coolant warning, so you'll have to periodically check the level.

Good info....
Have you done the divorce? Details?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

Good info....
Have you done the divorce? Details?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

No, I almost did. I purchased the awe unit, but the orders were so backed up I ended up cancelling. Kinda glad I did as I haven't really experienced any issues even with a dual pulley setup in 90deg weather. I feel that stock cooling works fine as long as you don't live in WOT..lol

[SlickMachine]

No, I almost did. I purchased the awe unit, but the orders were so backed up I ended up cancelling. Kinda glad I did as I haven't really experienced any issues even with a dual pulley setup in 90deg weather. I feel that stock cooling works fine as long as you don't live in WOT..lol

I'm getting power fade without a doubt. I'm thinking the temperature for sure, but also the high humidity is a big contributor. Bothers me.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

One very cheap cooling solution I've kicked around is adding a small auxiliary fan near the small heat exchanger by the driver side wheel well. Either on a temperature switch or manual switch. Frozenboost.com has a 7" fan for $30.

It seems that no matter how large of an intercooler you have, you will always get heat soak without any air movement. Adding a fan will allow air movement while sitting in traffic or in the staging lanes. Just a thought.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

One very cheap cooling solution I've kicked around is adding a small auxiliary fan near the small heat exchanger by the driver side wheel well. Either on a temperature switch or manual switch. Frozenboost.com has a 7" fan for $30.

It seems that no matter how large of an intercooler you have, you will always get heat soak without any air movement. Adding a fan will allow air movement while sitting in traffic or in the staging lanes. Just a thought.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I was considering just starting with that also. I found a race shop that sells brake cooling ducts and components that I think would work really well directing air back to that secondary exchanger. They have different shaped scoops, 3" ducts and an in-line fan (38$) that would be perfect. That exchanger gets almost no airflow where it is located. Edited: ducting is there now that I get the light on it, but there is no where for it to exit. I agree a fan would help tremendously as would some venting to dump the hot air.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

I called my shop earlier today which did my APR Stage 2 install, and had a chat about intercoolers on this car. I do like these guys, they are extremely knowledgeable in VW/Audi, they are always willing to shoot the shit about whatever and are not trying just sell you or get off the phone. Guy that I talked to mentioned the APR kit and that it was no longer being manufactured as APR is changing the kit. Speculation from these guys is that it is being improved upon and will be a necessary component in what will be the rumored new APR Stage 3 kit for the 3.0T, supposedly dropping sometime this winter. The kit is based on a dual pulley setup and the new CPS will be handling the charge temp issues created by the extra boost. grain of salt taken.
Also talked about the AWE system and their opinion is that a hi flow pump is not necessary to achieve good results, just the large exchanger.

[Westyfield2]

I've considered this before. Personally, if I do it I'd be going for the AMS Alpha.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Cooler-Upgrade

[ntsantos]

I was considering just starting with that also. I found a race shop that sells brake cooling ducts and components that I think would work really well directing air back to that secondary exchanger. They have different shaped scoops, 3" ducts and an in-line fan (38$) that would be perfect. That exchanger gets almost no airflow where it is located. Edited: ducting is there now that I get the light on it, but there is no where for it to exit. I agree a fan would help tremendously as would some venting to dump the hot air.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Do you have a link to the inline fan? Sounds like a good space saving option.

[SlickMachine]

Do you have a link to the inline fan? Sounds like a good space saving option.

Pegasus Racing
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gr...p?GroupID=BLOW

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

Pegasus Racing
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gr...p?GroupID=BLOW

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Thanks!

Here's a link to the 7" radiator fan for anyone interested. It may be slim enough to fit on the face of the smaller hx without having to modify anything. Too bad it's sold out for now, only 25 bucks.

http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-ai...7ada280354a844

[SlickMachine]

Thanks!

Here's a link to the 7" radiator fan for anyone interested. It may be slim enough to fit on the face of the smaller hx without having to modify anything. Too bad it's sold out for now, only 25 bucks.

http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-ai...7ada280354a844

Maybe even mount it on the back and reverse flow. It's no wonder that the engine bay in this car gets so hot, there doesn't seem to be any significant method of dumping air overboard. #heatsoak

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

Another reason I'm hesitant to drop a grand, or more on an off the shelf cooling system is the minimal hp gains shown on AWEs site. Even after their "torture test" doing back to back to back dyno pulls, the loss on the stock system was only 11hp. And that loss is only momentarily, until you get the car moving again. So there really isn't any power gains on top of what your car produces, these hx systems just speed up the recovery time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[durfA4]

After reading through that AW article, his issue was that he was not getting the airflow needed to maintain the efficiency of stock cooler. Instead of hunting for the perfect aftermarket cooler, Audi made one or a couple that work pretty well. Why not add another OEM cooler in front and above the bumper rebar. Then plumb it top to bottom. seems like a much easier install them messing around with unknown efficiency and cheap parts. You would be able to add a pump, divorce the system and still be under $500. I may not cool as well as the $1000+ systems but it would have twice the cooling capacity (I realize that thermo dynamics do not work that easily). would be a nice start.

$188 additional cooler - https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A7-C7...ger/ES2796394/
$40 1" silicone hose- https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A7-C7-3.0T/ES2167948/
$240 the pump from above- https://www.meziere.com/Products/Coo...NPT-Ports.aspx
$20 Coolant overflow tank- Ford Focus http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Coolant-...ZXUg9L&vxp=mtr

[ntsantos]

Here's a diy setup from the B8S4 forum. The cool thing about adding a cheaper hx in series with the other two oem units, you'll effectively have a triple pass system.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=713475

[SlickMachine]

I just ordered a roll of reflect-a-gold and an infrared thermometer. I'm going to do a bit of experimenting with wrapping the intercooler lines with this stuff given their extremely close proximity to hot engine components. I know this is hardly a solution but if it's good for a couple degrees, might be worth it for 32$. Plus it will be fun messing with it/documenting it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[agent47]

I just ordered a roll of reflect-a-gold and an infrared thermometer. I'm going to do a bit of experimenting with wrapping the intercooler lines with this stuff given their extremely close proximity to hot engine components. I know this is hardly a solution but if it's good for a couple degrees, might be worth it for 32$. Plus it will be fun messing with it/documenting it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I am curious af to see what your results would be. Someone wrapped their intake pipe with the same stuff and reported a slight dip in temp so maybe this would work. The only doubt in my mind is that the fluid running through the intercooler lines is pretty hot already so wrapping may prevent the heat from escaping? Not sure, might be a dumb doubt, but just came to my mind.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[SlickMachine]

I am curious af to see what your results would be. Someone wrapped their intake pipe with the same stuff and reported a slight dip in temp so maybe this would work. The only doubt in my mind is that the fluid running through the intercooler lines is pretty hot already so wrapping may prevent the heat from escaping? Not sure, might be a dumb doubt, but just came to my mind.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

While the tape will add some level of insulating property to the lines keeping heat in, it would be very very minimal. The outside reflective surface of the tape, however, reflects heat transfer on an infrared level, which would far overwhelm any adverse insulating effect.
The intake tube is certainly exposed to heat but not quite like those intercooler lines that are down in the bay soaking up all that radiated heat from the motor. I doubt it will be anything noticeable, but I like the theory and it's cheap enough to test out. It can't hurt.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[ntsantos]

There's another company in Australia that offers a Killer Chiller type setup - fiinterchillers. Check out this pic from their website. Some serious cooling.



Even the return line is cold!

I reached out to them for pricing and they are a bit more the KC. But they seem to have great customer service as they sent me a quote within a few hours, from Australia.

[agent47]

There's another company in Australia that offers a Killer Chiller type setup - fiinterchillers. Check out this pic from their website. Some serious cooling.



Even the return line is cold!

I reached out to them for pricing and they are a bit more the KC. But they seem to have great customer service as they sent me a quote within a few hours, from Australia.

Ice cream!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk