Next Mod Advice.

[KnewJack]

Right now I'm APR stage 2. Bought the car like this so no money out of my pocket for that. Just had it flashed to V3 and transferred ownership of flash. Looking for next most bang for the buck performance upgrade. I'm leaning towards the APR TCU tune. The higher RPM is attractive and the claimed 20-30 peak HP that comes with it. Also the variable increased launch RPMs could really help with my 1.80 60ft. Been to the drag strip twice with the car and my best run was a 12.51@ 111.75mph. It was blazing hot and the DA was 1834. I'm also considering the coldfront upgraded IC from AWE. I know if I plan on doing a dual pulley setup, this is a must. TCU is the easiest way forward since it's just a flash and it's the cheapest. Dual pulley would require the pulley of course, a stacked tune to realize the benefit of increased boost, and coldfront to help with heat soak. Decisions, decisions....

[cspcrx]

I just got tuned a bit over a week ago, stage 2 and TCU. Very happy with both. TCU fixed some of the odd shifts I had stock. Car just pulls. My next mode goes in next week,AMS Alpha cooler. That also makes some extra hp and makes everything run cooler.

[Hofahome]

Did you slam on the brakes at the end?

[KnewJack]

Did you slam on the brakes at the end?

Lol! Typo. Fixed

[KnewJack]

I just got tuned a bit over a week ago, stage 2 and TCU. Very happy with both. TCU fixed some of the odd shifts I had stock. Car just pulls. My next mode goes in next week,AMS Alpha cooler. That also makes some extra hp and makes everything run cooler.

Cool. I'm really curious what difference the TCU tune makes alone after already being stage 2. Doing the flashes together you got the best of both worlds!

[pudmyers]

I'd go TCU tune... I'm only stage 1 right now with the TCU.. Also have an AMS Aplha cooler sitting here... waiting to see what APR has been testing before I make anymore installations..

[xpoweruk]

TCU so you are getting the most out of the stage 2 first

[Loe]

TCU so you are getting the most out of the stage 2 first

Agreed! Your trap is very strong considering you don't have a TCU tune, it'll be a drop of approx 2.-.3 and a gain of 2-3mph in the 1/4mile in similar conditions. Definitely a TCU tune first. And possibly find an E85 or race fuel gas station to run a mix as the APR pump file can use a few bumps in octane/combustion chamber cooling to reach max timing for it's full potential.

I would also wait to see what APR has in store before you purchase anything beyond a TCU because whatever APR is releasing (or going to be releasing), you know how they feel about non-APR approved items and an upgraded APR-branded cooling system may be a requirement for that release. Just a thought.

[KnewJack]

Thanks for the great advice guys. TCU tune it is!
There's actually an E85 station on the way to my local track. Only $2.35 a gallon! I have two stations within 4- 10 miles from my house.

[MrFunk]

...waiting to see what APR has been testing before I make anymore installations..

LOLOL... you'll be waiting a very long frustrating time my friend.


OP - I'd do both but start with the TCU tune. You will realize improvements with better cooling as well... but given we are soon approaching fall and temps will drop I'd do the tune then plan on doing the cooler in the spring...

[Zaxon55]

I have the APR TCU tune. Just do it. It's fantastic.

[rulaxin12]

Do any or all of the suspension mods - front rear sways, end links, ak brace, shocks, springs, tranny mounts. These all really change how the car handles and makes a marked improvement over stock.

[KnewJack]

Do any or all of the suspension mods - front rear sways, end links, ak brace, shocks, springs, tranny mounts. These all really change how the car handles and makes a marked improvement over stock.

Car came with a Stasis touring suspension kit which included springs and rear sway bar. It was an expensive kit that I would never have paid the price of 2k for Lol. But it does make that car corner much better than a stock example I drove. I'm on the stock ADS (??) shock which I think work well for my driving. If ever get into road racing perhaps all the other stuff would be in order. Tranny mount sound interesting. How do they help? Just looked up AK brace may consider that down the road as well. Don't want anything that's going to add any resonating noise though.

[tgsweat]

Thanks for the great advice guys. TCU tune it is!
There's actually an E85 station on the way to my local track. Only $2.35 a gallon! I have two stations within 4- 10 miles from my house.

What part of MD are you in? Must not be near me with the many E85 options lol

[KnewJack]

What part of MD are you in? Must not be near me with the many E85 options lol

Columbia area. There is one right off RT32 on 198. All govt cars from NSA go there. Also one up the road on the way to Annapolis.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Thanks for the great advice guys. TCU tune it is!
There's actually an E85 station on the way to my local track. Only $2.35 a gallon! I have two stations within 4- 10 miles from my house.

e85 tune will change your life...night and day from 91 and 93 tune.

[KnewJack]

e85 tune will change your life...night and day from 91 and 93 tune.

Doesn't that require a fuel pump upgrade? Also EPL are the only company offering it, yes? Any track data with that tune?

[Ze_Nardo6]

Doesn't that require a fuel pump upgrade? Also EPL are the only company offering it, yes? Any track data with that tune?

It does. Yes they are.

[KnewJack]

It does. Yes they are.

And track data?

[Ze_Nardo6]

I don't have any personally...but my butt dyno can tell a massive difference, especially during the heat of summer. Ask any member on here running an e85 tune, it's night and day from 91/93.

I flashed my car back to 93 the other day and it felt like a dog...never going back.

[andrews2375]

I don't have any personally...but my butt dyno can tell a massive difference, especially during the heat of summer. Ask any member on here running an e85 tune, it's night and day from 91/93.

I flashed my car back to 93 the other day and it felt like a dog...never going back.

Did you upgrade your injectors and fuel pump? Do you use pump E85. I was told the octane is inconsistent and you shouldn't get it out of the pump.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Did you upgrade your injectors and fuel pump? Do you use pump E85. I was told the octane is inconsistent and you shouldn't get it out of the pump.

You heard incorrectly. The ethanol content does vary from station to station but is usually over e70 if advertised as e85. Always best to have an ethanol analyzer if you're concerned.

No injector upgrade is necessary but an upgraded HPFP is needed to run pure e85. If you're not using pump e85, where the heck are you getting it? lol

[KnewJack]

e85 tune will change your life...night and day from 91 and 93 tune.

After reading that EPL E85 thread it seems that tune is not quite ready for prime time and I have little interest in being a beta tester right now. People getting all kind of codes among other things. Maybe once they get it all ironed out.

[Ze_Nardo6]

After reading that EPL E85 thread it seems that tune is not quite ready for prime time and I have little interest in being a beta tester right now. People getting all kind of codes among other things. Maybe once they get it all ironed out.

Dual pulley e85 tune is definitely ready for prime time, I've been running it for months now...even through the thick of summer's heat in southern Texas. I have not had a single code, CEL, etc. It's been pretty flawless. Tough to "iron out" something that has been working perfectly.

[KnewJack]

Well, did the TCU flash today. I definitely like the extended revs. Set up LC for 4k,5k,6k, have not experimented with that at all. I think it has a little more pull after 6K Rpm, but my butt dyno is not very objective, riding a motorcycle that does 120+ in the 1/8th and 152mph in the 1/4 can screw with speed perception Lol! Definitely shifts more crisply and "D" seems more spirited than before. Is there any adaptation involved or you get the full effect right away? It is pretty hot today @ 104dg and 3250DA, hottest day of the summer so far. Maybe also why I don't feel much top end pull. Great advice though guys, thanks!

Questions, the tech suggested 3,4,5k for launch rpms, but I wanted the 6k in case I ever run more aggressive rubber down the line. What do most opt for? 3k always felt soft to me so my lowest is 4k. Was that a mistake?

[Ze_Nardo6]

Well, did the TCU flash today. I definitely like the extended revs. Set up LC for 4k,5k,6k, have not experimented with that at all. I think it has a little more pull after 6K Rpm, but my butt dyno is not very objective, riding a motorcycle that does 120+ in the 1/8th and 152mph in the 1/4 can screw with speed perception Lol! Definitely shifts more crisply and "D" seems more spirited than before. Is there any adaptation involved or you get the full effect right away? It is pretty hot today @ 104dg and 3250DA, hottest day of the summer so far. Maybe also why I don't feel much top end pull. Great advice though guys, thanks!

Questions, the tech suggested 3,4,5k for launch rpms, but I wanted the 6k in case I ever run more aggressive rubber down the line. What do most opt for? 3k always felt soft to me so my lowest is 4k. Was that a mistake?

The tunes on these cars seem to take some mileage to see best results. Drive it hard for another 100-200 miles and I bet you feel a little more.

[BlownOne]

You heard incorrectly. The ethanol content does vary from station to station but is usually over e70 if advertised as e85. Always best to have an ethanol analyzer if you're concerned.

No injector upgrade is necessary but an upgraded HPFP is needed to run pure e85. If you're not using pump e85, where the heck are you getting it? lol

You can get 55 gallon drums of ethanol in various percentages from e85-e100. A bit overkill for what we are doing, but it's always an option for someone living where it's not available.

[BlownOne]

Well, did the TCU flash today. I definitely like the extended revs. Set up LC for 4k,5k,6k, have not experimented with that at all. I think it has a little more pull after 6K Rpm, but my butt dyno is not very objective, riding a motorcycle that does 120+ in the 1/8th and 152mph in the 1/4 can screw with speed perception Lol! Definitely shifts more crisply and "D" seems more spirited than before. Is there any adaptation involved or you get the full effect right away? It is pretty hot today @ 104dg and 3250DA, hottest day of the summer so far. Maybe also why I don't feel much top end pull. Great advice though guys, thanks!

Questions, the tech suggested 3,4,5k for launch rpms, but I wanted the 6k in case I ever run more aggressive rubber down the line. What do most opt for? 3k always felt soft to me so my lowest is 4k. Was that a mistake?

There's no need to launch the car above 5k and I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you wanna just spin the tires or break something.

[KnewJack]

You can get 55 gallon drums of ethanol in various percentages from e85-e100. A bit overkill for what we are doing, but it's always an option for someone living where it's not available.

Yep. My race buddy would get a drum of E100 and mix it himself or run it straight. I ran it myself too. Much more consistent results that way. I've melted more than a couple heads dealing with varying grades of "E85" available at the pump. Just can't tune to the edge with the pump stuff cause it can be different tank to tank, gas station to gas station.

[BlownOne]

Yep. My race buddy would get a drum of E100 and mix it himself or run it straight. I ran it myself too. Much more consistent results that way. I've melted more than a couple heads dealing with varying grades of "E85" available at the pump. Just can't tune to the edge with the pump stuff cause it can be different tank to tank, gas station to gas station.

Yea if you're tuning to the edge with timing and boost on e82 then pump some e68 your going to have issues lol

[cspcrx]

I went with the 4,5,6 like you. Glad you like it.

[KnewJack]

I went with the 4,5,6 like you. Glad you like it.

Yeah, I did a 6k launch tonight and not completely on purpose, I just hit the gas too hard 1st time trying it out. It didn't seem too bad or too jarring. The clutches don't just dump they do a nice slip and don't dump until you have some decent forward motion. Rear tires broke loose some and bam right into 2nd. Sure as hell tachs out a lot quicker than launching from 3K. However, I don't think I will be launching that high again any time soon just to be safe. Unsure of the long term effects of launching a 2 ton car that high. The S4 doesn't have near the torque of a stage 2+ S6 and their DSG seems to handle it nicely. Don't know if the trans are the same though.

[Loe]

Just add some corn gas to your APR file, you'll be able to run the 100 octane file without the need for full E85. Sean@APR has stated this unofficially on the forum a few times, and I've run my best times using a 93pump + corn gas mix. Just invest in a VCDS to make sure you're not running lean, and your engine is having minimal timing corrections (any value greater than -3* for more than a few rpm blocks in VCDS would be a concern to me). However, I've seen these motors take -5*+ of correction on some peoples logs, the motor is pretty aggressive when it comes to timing corrections to knock to avoid blowing itself up as long as your tuner hasn't dialed back the sensitivity of the sensor too much. APR's rule has always been safe power, so I don't think they would do that. The biggest concern is to monitor AFR, you're more thank likely to blow something running it lean, so monitor this with every mixture you experiment with as it will vary car-to-car/environment-to-environment.

FWIW and IIRC, I get a max of about -2* of corrections here and there with a 30% ethanol blend on GIAC's race file, max timing of upper 26.xx* and hardly any corrections with a higher mixture with a max of 29.xx*. This was tested in lower 50-60F temps though, and on my 179mm JHM crank. I don't have much in terms of comparable data with my 194mm crank because it was installed in the dead heat of an FL summer.

[cspcrx]

I have not launched mine yet. I am putting in the ECS bushings first.

I also am running a mix. I am running a mix of 91 & E85 so I can use the 93 octane file. 91 is the best we can get at the pumps here, and I am having no problems with it.

[KnewJack]

Just add some corn gas to your APR file, you'll be able to run the 100 octane file without the need for full E85. Sean@APR has stated this unofficially on the forum a few times, and I've run my best times using a 93pump + corn gas mix. Just invest in a VCDS to make sure you're not running lean, and your engine is having minimal timing corrections (any value greater than -3* for more than a few rpm blocks in VCDS would be a concern to me). However, I've seen these motors take -5*+ of correction on some peoples logs, the motor is pretty aggressive when it comes to timing corrections to knock to avoid blowing itself up as long as your tuner hasn't dialed back the sensitivity of the sensor too much. APR's rule has always been safe power, so I don't think they would do that. The biggest concern is to monitor AFR, you're more thank likely to blow something running it lean, so monitor this with every mixture you experiment with as it will vary car-to-car/environment-to-environment.

FWIW and IIRC, I get a max of about -2* of corrections here and there with a 30% ethanol blend on GIAC's race file, max timing of upper 26.xx* and hardly any corrections with a higher mixture with a max of 29.xx*. This was tested in lower 50-60F temps though, and on my 179mm JHM crank. I don't have much in terms of comparable data with my 194mm crank because it was installed in the dead heat of an FL summer.

Great info, thanks!

I'm going to mix a little more E85 on my next fill up. I only put in 2 gallons last time. I can usually only get in 14.5 gallons of fuel on "E" so I'll do 4 gallons of E85, 10gal 94oct. Until I have logging ability I'll stick with the 93 file. Is there any warning that can be set up for knock retard on VCDS? On other software/platforms I could set it up to flash the CEL when timing reached -5* retard or flash brake light if EGTs got too high. Guessing the APR tune alone can save itself by opening bypass valve, but running the CW would hamper that safeguard.

I have not launched mine yet. I am putting in the ECS bushings first.

I also am running a mix. I am running a mix of 91 & E85 so I can use the 93 octane file. 91 is the best we can get at the pumps here, and I am having no problems with it.

Are you referring to the trans mount bushing?

[Loe]

Great info, thanks!

I'm going to mix a little more E85 on my next fill up. I only put in 2 gallons last time. I can usually only get in 14.5 gallons of fuel on "E" so I'll do 4 gallons of E85, 10gal 94oct. Until I have logging ability I'll stick with the 93 file. Is there any warning that can be set up for knock retard on VCDS? On other software/platforms I could set it up to flash the CEL when timing reached -5* retard or flash brake light if EGTs got too high. Guessing the APR tune alone can save itself by opening bypass valve, but running the CW would hamper that safeguard.

The by-pass will open if the ECU wants it to open, I've seen it my logs. The 93 file is fine, some have seen close to 25* with some ethanol mixing on the 93 pump stage II file, thats not quite, but almost close to race-gas level ignition timing.

[cspcrx]

Yes trans and differentials. I got the full kit.

[rulaxin12]

Car came with a Stasis touring suspension kit which included springs and rear sway bar. It was an expensive kit that I would never have paid the price of 2k for Lol. But it does make that car corner much better than a stock example I drove. I'm on the stock ADS (??) shock which I think work well for my driving. If ever get into road racing perhaps all the other stuff would be in order. Tranny mount sound interesting. How do they help? Just looked up AK brace may consider that down the road as well. Don't want anything that's going to add any resonating noise though.

I'm in a manual so the tranny mounts made a huge difference. It made the rear end feel much more connected to the inputs of the throttle and it felt more rear biased. Also the 1-2 little clunk between shifts went away. NO additional NVH either. I didn't get any noises from the mounts. The brace with the end links and sways took out most of the body roll. It was a big diff from stock.

[KnewJack]

Yes trans and differentials. I got the full kit.

Where from?

[14S4GWM]

Where from?

Both of these are metal and offer a full set. They are both the same but Eurocode is cheaper.
034
Eurocode

ECS has some plastic ones