Let's play another round of 'identify this part'

[eljay]

OK, so my Avant seems to be dropping these little things in my driveway.







I found one piece like the above under the front/engine area of the car in the driveway as I was leaving home. Then came back, parked the car and later needed to go somewhere and as I was backing up, I found another one. And today, guess what?! Yes, I backed out of the driveway and found a third one! This time around the rear, I think. WTF?! I wish my B6 was laying golden eggs instead of these little rubber thingies.

Can anyone help me identify these pieces? They do not have any VAG part number on them, so they must be a part of some larger assembly with a part number. They have 3-digit numbers on them, but they are different on every one of those pieces. I always spotted them too late to pinpoint the location from where they could have fallen.

I haven't noticed anything different about the car during these past two days. Except, for some reason, my A/C stopped working completely. One evening, I pressed the ECON button to turn off A/C. The next morning, I turned it off (fyi, the ECON button turns off without a problem and does not stay lit), but the cold air never returned. I have no idea how I could've lost the A/C completely like this. I'll have to do some reading and start diagnosing it.
Anyways, I don't think it's related to the rubber pieces, but I'm listing all I know to provide potential clues about these mysterious objects.

[MoparFreak69]

Those go between the AC pulley and the flange that spins the AC compressor shaft to dampen noise and vibration. You need a new AC compressor

[old guy]

They are part of your A/C drive pulley. Clicky click®

[eljay]

Oh wow. That's not good news. I'll have to go do seomreading on this one.

Should I just keep the ECON on for now to keep the A/C (or whatever is left there) disengaged?

Do I really need a whole new compressor or just the pulley linked above? The compressor is like a 3rd of the book value of the car. :(

[old guy]

It is possible that you can repair your compressor. You will have to remove it to first. You can purchase a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the compressor for a temporary solution. Clicky click®

[MoparFreak69]

Oh wow. That's not good news. I'll have to go do seomreading on this one.

Should I just keep the ECON on for now to keep the A/C (or whatever is left there) disengaged?

Do I really need a whole new compressor or just the pulley linked above? The compressor is like a 3rd of the book value of the car. :(

By the time you pay someone to replace the clutch assembly you have more than spent the price difference between just buying a whole new compressor. A lot of places around here will actually pay you a small amount to drain your AC system because they can reuse the freon with their recovery/recharge machines. Replacing a compressor is easy, requiring only standard hand tools. It's probably a 30 minute job. Pretty much every new compressor I've replaced recently have been prefilled with the proper amount of oil.
Replacing the clutch is much more complicated and requires some tools DIYers usually don't have.
Recharging the system is also quite easy and can be done in your driveway with a little bit of knowledge.

[MoparFreak69]

It is possible that you can repair your compressor. You will have to remove it to first. You can purchase a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the compressor for a temporary solution. Clicky click®

No need for the bypass. The AC compressor pulley is retained by a snap ring completely separate from the clutch assembly. Running it that way isn't going to affect anything because the compressor simply can't physically spin as there is nothing to spin it.

[old guy]

Good to know if I ever have to work on mine.

[eljay]

No need for the bypass. The AC compressor pulley is retained by a snap ring completely separate from the clutch assembly. Running it that way isn't going to affect anything because the compressor simply can't physically spin as there is nothing to spin it.

Thanks to both of you!

Would this kit work for me?
The rockauto catalog is confusing because it is listing different compressors for FWD vs Quattro with 4-groove pulley for the quattro. But one listing for Quattro shows compressor as "6SEU14C Compressor" while another as "7SEU16C Style". Which one would I need? The OEM part seems to be 8E0260805BJ.
Does anyone have experience with these "GPD" compressor kits? The price seems good, but I should probably stick with Denso/Nissens/Mahle-Behr compressors, huh?!

And in terms of repair, I just found these threads:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...A-C-Compressor
http://www.audiworld.com/forums/12v-...r-diy-2805607/

I assume that the compressor cannot be replaced without opening the system. Since I don't want to risk releasing the refrigerant into the air, to perform the repair, can I get a shop to evacuate the system completely, then I would replace all the parts, o-rings on the tubes (seems like a ton of O-rings in that kit I linked above!) etc. and then bring it back to the shop to check the system for leaks and refill with proper refrigerant?

-----
UPDATE:
Adding more info I found on the above:
"6SEU" - compressor for normal climates (used in Europe)
"7SEU" - compressor for hot climates

[MoparFreak69]

As far as I'm aware anything less than 6 grooves hasn't been used in a long time. Easiest way to tell for sure is to just look at your belt and count how many ribs it has. Buy the appropriate compressor based on what you have.
I have had good luck with the Murray brand line that Oreilly auto parts sells. They offer a compressor for ~$400.
I honestly wouldn't mess with anything else in the system as long as the AC worked fine before the clutch fell apart. The reason they recommend condensor replacement along with a compressor is because of the times when the compressor blows apart internally and spreads little pieces into the lines and condensor. More than likely you just had a snap ring fail which allowed your clutch to walk off the front of the compressor.
As far as having a shop do the evacuation, vacuum testing and recharge, it completely varies from shop to shop, even customer to customer. Some places will do the work for you with you providing parts and some won't without you buying the parts from them as well. All you can do is call around and ask. If you plan on doing the work yourself make sure you specify that the evacuation and the testing/recharge will occur on 2 different visits.

[diagnosticator]

No need for the bypass. The AC compressor pulley is retained by a snap ring completely separate from the clutch assembly. Running it that way isn't going to affect anything because the compressor simply can't physically spin as there is nothing to spin it.

??? the AC compressor on our A4s is spinning whenever the engine is running. There is no compressor drive clutch. The rubber blocks in the drive pulley are specifically designed to roll out and disconnect the drive pulley from the pulley hub and compressor drive shaft if the compressor seizes up, preventing the accessory belt from being thrown of the accessory drive sprockets.

[MoparFreak69]

??? the AC compressor on our A4s is spinning whenever the engine is running. There is no compressor drive clutch. The rubber blocks in the drive pulley are specifically designed to roll out and disconnect the drive pulley from the pulley hub and compressor drive shaft if the compressor seizes up, preventing the accessory belt from being thrown of the accessory drive sprockets.

Not when the face portion is missing and those rubber isolators fall out. Those are there to dampen any vibrations from not only the drive belt but the pistons inside the pump as they compress and decompress depending on what side of the swash plate they are on.

[MikTip]

Uhh.. thats a "safety" feature! Keeps the serpentine belt from going south when the a/c compressor dies internally! Hello!

You need a new a/c compressor! Only Fix! BTDT! Got the T-shirt!

Sorry! We didnt engineer these cars...just DIY repair them!

[MikTip]

Thanks to both of you!

Would this kit work for me?
The rockauto catalog is confusing because it is listing different compressors for FWD vs Quattro with 4-groove pulley for the quattro. But one listing for Quattro shows compressor as "6SEU14C Compressor" while another as "7SEU16C Style". Which one would I need? The OEM part seems to be 8E0260805BJ.
Does anyone have experience with these "GPD" compressor kits? The price seems good, but I should probably stick with Denso/Nissens/Mahle-Behr compressors, huh?!

And in terms of repair, I just found these threads:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...A-C-Compressor
http://www.audiworld.com/forums/12v-...r-diy-2805607/

I assume that the compressor cannot be replaced without opening the system. Since I don't want to risk releasing the refrigerant into the air, to perform the repair, can I get a shop to evacuate the system completely, then I would replace all the parts, o-rings on the tubes (seems like a ton of O-rings in that kit I linked above!) etc. and then bring it back to the shop to check the system for leaks and refill with proper refrigerant?

Its a Denso compressor.

Most reliable shops wont warrenty the work unless they do 100% of it.

You can try...see what the shops in your area say....good luck!

Also a new reciever dryer, new orifice tube and a flush of the system is a very, very good idea too!

[diagnosticator]

Not when the face portion is missing and those rubber isolators fall out. Those are there to dampen any vibrations from not only the drive belt but the pistons inside the pump as they compress and decompress depending on what side of the swash plate they are on.

The rubber blocks may dampen drive vibrations, however Audi describes the constant drive of the compressor incorporating rubber blocks that roll out of position if the compressor seizes, releasing the belt pulley from the compressor drive shaft, to allow the accessory drive belt to continue driving the alternator and PS pump normally with the compressor in the seized status. The pulley release blocks are at version 2 or 3 now.

[MoparFreak69]

The rubber blocks may dampen drive vibrations, however Audi describes the constant drive of the compressor incorporating rubber blocks that roll out of position if the compressor seizes, releasing the belt pulley from the compressor drive shaft, to allow the accessory drive belt to continue driving the alternator and PS pump normally with the compressor in the seized status. The pulley release blocks are at version 2 or 3 now.

If they had indeed rolled out due to a seized up compressor there is no way they would have maintained their shape so well. I understand they function the same as the soft plastic in a love-joy coupler used in many hydraulic pump situations. The plastic (or in this case rubber) provides the mechanical connection between the components, also serving a primary purpose of isolating noise and vibrations between the driver component and the driven component. Audi's safety function is actually secondary because I have seen more pulley bearing failures than I have seized compressors.

[eljay]

If they had indeed rolled out due to a seized up compressor there is no way they would have maintained their shape so well. I understand they function the same as the soft plastic in a love-joy coupler used in many hydraulic pump situations. The plastic (or in this case rubber) provides the mechanical connection between the components, also serving a primary purpose of isolating noise and vibrations between the driver component and the driven component. Audi's safety function is actually secondary because I have seen more pulley bearing failures than I have seized compressors.

Good exchange and I've learned more about how the system works.

So, in summary, I still need to replace the whole compressor, correct?
The car is a 2005 with 176k miles on it. As such, should I get the A/C lines and system flushed and replace the dryer and the orifice/filter tube? I believe most A/C manufacturers will only warranty the compressor with proof of a system flush if the system has not been serviced in the past 5 years.
The Denso compressor will run about CAD$470 and with ACDelco orifice tube (I guess I should skip the $0.91 GPD brand?) and Behr drier, the kit is ~CAD$550 shipped to me.
Chschuster's DIY provides some inspiration, but I'm still not sure whether it's possible to evacuate and re-charge the system at home safely.
I'll call a couple of shops to get an idea of the cost.

UPDATE:
FYI: I scanned with VCDS and have no codes related to HVAC or otherwise.

[diagnosticator]

There is no way to fix the existing AC drive pulley, no parts are available except as a complete assembly. There must be a reason the drive pulley rubber blocks are coming out of the pulley, even if the compressor is seized, the rubber blocks are not expected to come out of the pulley. The reason why the blocks are coming out of the pulley is only an academic concern now, replacement of the compressor is necessary regardless of the specific reason the blocks are not secure in the pulley. The way the rubber blocks deform and change position in the pulley when the compressor seized up, allows the pulley rim to rotate with the drive belt while the pulley hub and compressor drive shaft are not turning. The configuration of the rubber drive blocks in the pulley are specifically designed for the purpose of releasing the pulley rim if the compressor seizes. The conditions required to cause the rubber drive blocks to release the pulley hub and compressor drive shaft, only exist with a seized up compressor. Therefore the compressor needs to be replaced, the system flushed and a new receiver/drier and orifice tube included. The orifice tube has a fine screen that get plugged up with metallic particles, and must be replaced since cleaning it is not practical. If the compressor disintegrated internally, the condenser should be replaced as well because the small clearances inside cannot be flushed effectively.

[MikTip]

provides some inspiration, but I'm still not sure whether it's possible to evacuate and re-charge the system at home safely.
I'll call a couple of shops to get an idea of the cost.

I DIY'd mine! And several others...



Gettn ready to do mine again, after 5 years! Shaft seal on compressors leaking oil...

[MoparFreak69]

I DIY'd mine! And several others...


Gettn ready to do mine again, after 5 years! Shaft seal on compressors leaking oil...

For a once in a blue moon occasion Horror Freight tools stuff works perfectly fine. I would never recommend trying to evacuate the system yourself but if there happened to be a small leak you were unaware of that caused the system to be empty when you set off to do the work.......

[eljay]

For a once in a blue moon occasion Horror Freight tools stuff works perfectly fine. I would never recommend trying to evacuate the system yourself but if there happened to be a small leak you were unaware of that caused the system to be empty when you set off to do the work.......

Oh, I see...

Hmm, scanning the online catalogues of a few local shops, I couldn't find any A/C tools to attempt this at home. No Harbour Freight around here and Princess Auto (our equivalent) does not seem to have any A/C tools.
So far, I got one quote for CAD$1900 all in. LOL The labour is $530 of that amount. Seeing that I can get the parts from RockAuto for ~$700, finding an ability to do this at home seems to be a ~$1000-$1200 question.

[MoparFreak69]

You should be able to source those at an auto parts store. Some places rent that stuff as well, not sure if you have a Vatozone near you but they are the main ones in my area that rents tools (it's actually free but you put a deposit down of the cost of the tool and they just refund you when you return it).

[cschuster]

I just rented a flush kit and manifold/vacuum set from autozone last weekend. Wrote up a short diy on the process too

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[eljay]

No such thing up here in Canada. I called around and you cannot rent any A/C kits because you need to be licensed to handle R134a, so I wouldn't even be able to buy that stuff here without being licensed. The tools needed are around $200 without the R134a. So, it doesn't make sense to DIY this one. :(
Sounds like I'm stuck with the high bill if I want my A/C back.

I am contemplating picking up a used compressor and condenser from a parts car with 120k on it that supposedly worked before the car was sitting. Is that a bad idea? Then I'd buy a new drier and orifice tube and pay through the nose to have it all installed. At my local shop's pricing, I can just buy a parts car, keep the compressor from it and junk the rest and still come out ahead. Of course, I wouldn't want to pay the $500 labour twice if the used compressor grenades itself in short order.

p.s. In other news, #4 isolator fell out. 2 more to go!!

[hightime80]

Take a few days off and drive to Cincinatti USA and pay cschuster to do it! Get a roadtrip and get to learn from him lol. Better than getting butt$%&! By the shop👍

[MoparFreak69]

Or if you're on the western end of things make a long weekend trip to Boise and I'll take care of you

[hightime80]

Or if you're on the western end of things make a long weekend trip to Boise and I'll take care of you

Go broncos.only one of the few college programs I can stomache anymore.

[imnuts]

Could you get a shop to evacuate the system for you, do the work yourself, then go back to get it recharged?

Sent from my DROID Turbo 2

[MikTip]

No such thing up here in Canada. I called around and you cannot rent any A/C kits because you need to be licensed to handle R134a, so I wouldn't even be able to buy that stuff here without being licensed. The tools needed are around $200 without the R134a. So, it doesn't make sense to DIY this one. :(
Sounds like I'm stuck with the high bill if I want my A/C back.

I am contemplating picking up a used compressor and condenser from a parts car with 120k on it that supposedly worked before the car was sitting. Is that a bad idea? Then I'd buy a new drier and orifice tube and pay through the nose to have it all installed. At my local shop's pricing, I can just buy a parts car, keep the compressor from it and junk the rest and still come out ahead. Of course, I wouldn't want to pay the $500 labour twice if the used compressor grenades itself in short order.

p.s. In other news, #4 isolator fell out. 2 more to go!!

Sorry bro...the good ole USA allows consumers to handle 134.

I wouldnt buy anything for the a/c used....

I bought a New Denso compressor for $389, and a New Condensor for $60.

Now I know my a/c is good for several more years.

[eljay]

Could you get a shop to evacuate the system for you, do the work yourself, then go back to get it recharged?

Sent from my DROID Turbo 2

Actually, that's what I will try to do. I talked to the shop where I got the original quote and they are willing to do that.

Sorry bro...the good ole USA allows consumers to handle 134.

I wouldnt buy anything for the a/c used....

I bought a New Denso compressor for $389, and a New Condensor for $60.

Now I know my a/c is good for several more years.

Yeah, I'd like to get all new parts, but I'll see. Everything new would run me $630 total (compressor, drier, condenser, tube, o-rings). The compressor itself is ~$500. A local yard has a used compressor for $100, but it's a 2003 car, so different part number.

Does anyone know what exactly were the differences in compressors over the years?

[MikTip]

Actually, that's what I will try to do. I talked to the shop where I got the original quote and they are willing to do that.


Yeah, I'd like to get all new parts, but I'll see. Everything new would run me $630 total (compressor, drier, condenser, tube, o-rings). The compressor itself is ~$500. A local yard has a used compressor for $100, but it's a 2003 car, so different part number.

Does anyone know what exactly were the differences in compressors over the years?

Price those parts from an Audi dealership....then $630 is a deal!

[cschuster]

ECS says there are 3 different ones depending on year/vin. They should help you find the part number needed. Don't know what's different about them though.

Ill do it for some beers if you can make it down here without ac. Its been damn hot and humid here.

A used compressor can be found for under 100 bucks, and makes sense if you're doing the labor. Get one with a warranty. If you're paying a shop, though, it would suck to pay labor twice if the compressor was bad.

[diagnosticator]

Actually, that's what I will try to do. I talked to the shop where I got the original quote and they are willing to do that.


Yeah, I'd like to get all new parts, but I'll see. Everything new would run me $630 total (compressor, drier, condenser, tube, o-rings). The compressor itself is ~$500. A local yard has a used compressor for $100, but it's a 2003 car, so different part number.

Does anyone know what exactly were the differences in compressors over the years?

I recently replaced the compressor and receiver/drier. Both had the wrong port sizes and the later style uses different O ring sizes fitted. If the new style compressor is used instead of the correct style, the fittings will leak and either the system won't develop a vacuum during evacuation or the system will leak out all the new R134A after 4 or 5 days. The compressor has a rectangular fitting held by 4 bolts, the old style port can be swapped with the new style port on the new compressor. The larger of the two compressor ports is the same size. I had to order another receiver/drier with the right sized ports that PN is the R revision for the old style smaller ports, the P version is the new larger style ports that won't work for the older style systems.

The ports in the receiver/drier are different sizes. The small port on the compressor is a different size although the port can be swapped if the new compressor is the wrong size.

[MikTip]

Get the part numbers off ya old parts...

[eljay]

I recently replaced the compressor and receiver/drier. Both had the wrong port sizes and the later style uses different O ring sizes fitted. If the new style compressor is used instead of the correct style, the fittings will leak and either the system won't develop a vacuum during evacuation or the system will leak out all the new R134A after 4 or 5 days. The compressor has a rectangular fitting held by 4 bolts, the old style port can be swapped with the new style port on the new compressor. The larger of the two compressor ports is the same size. I had to order another receiver/drier with the right sized ports that PN is the R revision for the old style smaller ports, the P version is the new larger style ports that won't work for the older style systems.

The ports in the receiver/drier are different sizes. The small port on the compressor is a different size although the port can be swapped if the new compressor is the wrong size.

Thank you.
Yes, I studied the ETKA for a bit and that's exactly the difference: the port/hose fitting sizes.
My car is an 06/04 build date, so I need 8E0260805BJ compressor. This part number is for cars built between 02/04 and 12/04. To help others looking at this thread, here are the part numbers in the order of build dates for 1.8T cars (FYI, you can find your build date on a sticker at the driver's side door jamb):

11/00 - 01/03: 8E0260805G or 8E260805F
01/03 - 01/04: 8E0260805AF or 8E260805S
02/04 - 12/04: 8E0260805BJ

Source: http://etka.cc/audi/part_single/cata...0/lang/e#sec_1

As for the drier:
11/00 - 01/03: 8E0820193R (previously 8E0820193C)
02/03 - 12/04: 8E0820193P

...and o-ring sizes for the A/C compressor fittings:
11/00 - 01/03: 8E0260749B size: 11.1x1.8mm
01/03 - 12/04: 4E0260749A size: 11x2.5mm
and the larger one is the same for all: 8E0260749C size: 23.8x2.4mm

...o-ring sizes for the drier:
11/00 - 04/02: 7H0820749 size: 17.2x1.82mm
05/02 - 01/03: 8E0260749A size: 16.7x1.8mm
01/03 - 12/04: 4E0260749C size: 16.2x2.5mm

Source: http://etka.cc/audi/part_single/cata...rt_id/0/lang/e

If I can score a good used compressor for <$100, I will give it a go and replace the drier and condenser with new units along with the required o-rings.

To keep the thread educational: what makes an A/C compressor go bad? Is it simply contamination of the refrigerant with dirt moisture due to a leakage somewhere? Or since it's a moving part, do they have a certain number of hours of lifespan and then the plate wears out or something else goes inside?

[diagnosticator]

Compressors fail for many reasons. The reason for most failures is excessive wear, and internal parts failures. After that is lubrication failures from not enough lube oil. The specific failure cause is arbitrary, even when the base cause is lubrication, something unique is going to be the case comparing compressor failures.

Regarding O ring sizes, I know they are manufactured to the exact size listed, however I don't know how O rings can be measured accurately especially when the size difference is 0.1 mm. I can't measure the sizes well enough to id similar O rings. I don't know of any way to do this without specialized tools.

[Kevin C]

If they had indeed rolled out due to a seized up compressor there is no way they would have maintained their shape so well. I understand they function the same as the soft plastic in a love-joy coupler used in many hydraulic pump situations. The plastic (or in this case rubber) provides the mechanical connection between the components, also serving a primary purpose of isolating noise and vibrations between the driver component and the driven component. Audi's safety function is actually secondary because I have seen more pulley bearing failures than I have seized compressors.

https://www.omega-usa.com/client/ima...%20PULLEYS.PDF

Santech : H20-7203

Many compressor failures are from lubricant loss due to system leaks. Compressors with proper lubrication typically don't have wear issues.

DIY AC compressor reseal:



Ours is a 7SEU series...

[cschuster]

The santech o-ring kit comes with a bunch of different sizes. Match them up as you pull off the old ones.

Mine had the pulley bearing fail and seize...why, I couldn't tell. At 180k and 14 years, the internals looked new though. They should last a very long time, proper lubrication ensures that.


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