Track Day/ Autocross Discussion

[magnessr]

General autocross and track day post, so feel free to talk about whatever.

So I have done a few autocross events in the S3 with the stock Pirelli's, but have upgraded to a dedicated tire. Went with some Hankook Ventus R-S3 245/35/19 tires for the stock wheels. I am doing my first track day this weekend and was curious what you guys recommend for tire pressures. Going to Mid-Ohio and temps are going to be in the mid 80's/low 90's. Was thinking of starting around 33/34 psi for the first run and see how much they increase over 20min. I am guessing I want to be around that 34-35psi range once they warm up, but I am unsure of how much they will heat up over each run. Any input is welcome and appreciated.

[mroberte]

Last time I ran, kept them at stock pressure since the stock A3 continental tires are horrid. Previous car I'd put them down to 31psi.

[littleredwagen]

My Rule of thumb is no more then 40psi HOT temp, also in 20 minute session depending on the track and weather conditions will dictate the pressure increase, but I would allow for 5 psi increase in each tire. You don't want pressures too low otherwise you will consume too much fuel and roll the tire onto the sidewall and build up too much heat in the actual tire. Your thinking is a good starting point. Once you finish the session come in as fast as possible and check the temps.

[magnessr]

So the track day this past Friday was a blast. Going to be an expensive hobby haha.

As for tire pressures, I was setting them at 33psi front/ 32psi rear at the beginning of the session. I saw about 4-5psi increase over the 20min session so I was finishing around 37/38psi in each tire. Car performed great other than the brake being a little mushy towards the end of the day. I will do a high temp fluid flush and get some pads for the next event.

[littleredwagen]

I'm wondering how the stock suspension (both standard suspension and MRS in dynamic) hold up on the track.

as with everything else bushings wise until they last. Only Poly, metal ones, and/or rods do better. Don't get me wrong the Rubber will last a for a while for doing HPDEs and learning

[magnessr]

as with everything else bushings wise until they last. Only Poly, metal ones, and/or rods do better. Don't get me wrong the Rubber will last a for a while for doing HPDEs and learning

Agreed. For a few track days a year, the stock stuff should hold up alright. The autocross may be a little more abusive. Planning on doing some inserts for now and seeing how all of that holds up over time.


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[soulflyer]

Happy to hear you had fun on the track...
There is a dedicated thread about the brakes here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...For-track-days
As far as tire pressure goes...
I am running 235/40/18 with stock 39 front and rear 36 PSI. 10 days ago I was on the track for a full day and I reduced all tires by 4 PSI and after 20 min track time I had 44 front and 39 back. I reduced again to 39 and 36 and after another 20 min und increasing temperature of the day (35C) the pressure was 42 in the front and 39 in the back. I had the temp on all for tires measured (3 points, inner, middle outer with a proper metal 'stick' tool) and it turned out that the temp in the front was the same across the surface i.e. the pressure is right. The back however had a lower middle temp and I had to add 2 PSI to bring it up.

Having said all that I am back on the track Wednesday for my 9th track day this season and I will overinflate a bit to protect the outer edges of my PSS. They go like hot butter in the sun (the outer edges), especially front left. I am aware I will loose traction but I don't want to buy yet another set of PSS befor the winter... it would be my 3rd set... usually they last 3-4 track days..
This was after 3 track days...



Have fun... and make sure you have a good budget ;)

[Z32drifter]

Some camber in the front would help with that tire wear. While I like the PSS, I might look for something you could flip inside out and extend the service life. That's what I did on my Z before I could adjust the front camber. It killed the outer third of the front tires. I would run a few events and then dismount and remount them inside out.

[littleredwagen]

Some camber in the front would help with that tire wear. While I like the PSS, I might look for something you could flip inside out and extend the service life. That's what I did on my Z before I could adjust the front camber. It killed the outer third of the front tires. I would run a few events and then dismount and remount them inside out.

Excelerate has out the IE camber tops on the MK IV Golf R , so those will most likely work to get more camber out of the front

[soulflyer]

That is correct, more info here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ilable-for-MK7
or here
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17154

For now its not to clear to me if you have to cut some metal or not...

[rex_racer]

Cutting of the strut tower is only required on the IE plates if you want to be able to adjust without disassembly. Otherwise you'll need to drop the coilovers, adjust and then lift them back up and install. A number of individuals have reported that the IE plates slip, or do not install correctly for all shocks, so they've got some dings against them.

With all the work it takes to use them, I don't see why more people aren't using the Ground Control plates. They've been in the business of suspension and especially camber plates for far longer, are used by real racers, are cheaper than the IE plates and don't require disassembly in order to adjust. http://www.ground-control-store.com/...ion.php?II=989 The GC plates only require cutting of the strut tower if combined with a shock that has an external top mount adjustment knob.

[soulflyer]

Interesting! Thanks for the link...

[evanescent03]

encouraging to see some pretty avid track guys here. I'm excited to see how the S3 does compared to my previous cars. I got the S3 as more of a daily commuter that I could occasionally track. I have lots of research to do still.

I'll should be hitting thunderhill this weekend. Should be fun! I hope the car holds up fairly well!

[evanescent03]

I've seen guys delaminate the outer 25% of the tire on M3s. The PSS do great but don't seem to tolerate prolonged and/or repetitive heat all that well. ZZ

[magnessr]

I'll be heading back up to Mid-Ohio this weekend. Doing a brake fluid flush with Castrol SRF tonight, so that will be a nice upgrade.

[evanescent03]

Anything special with the fluid? haven't looked at the car at all yet. Pretty Standard?

[magnessr]

Anything special with the fluid? haven't looked at the car at all yet. Pretty Standard?

High temp brake fluid so you won't get a mushy pedal or brake fade during prolonged intense braking like you experience on the track. It's one of the better fluids you can get right now.


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[EMRtek]

Anybody doing track days with a Quattro A3? I have read somewhere the S3 has a better cooling system (extra radiator) and I'm afraid the car will run very hot after just one 20 min session. Are the S3 guys having overheating issues at all? Any information you can share on this topic will be greatly appreciated.

[mroberte]

Both A3 and S3 are fine on the track and will not overheat, that's only if its tuned inappropriately. I've tracked my "mildly" modified A3 and besides expected rotor glazing, car did great. Going to Laguna seca next month.

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[magnessr]

Both A3 and S3 are fine on the track and will not overheat, that's only if its tuned inappropriately. I've tracked my "mildly" modified A3 and besides expected rotor glazing, car did great. Going to Laguna seca next month.

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I did a track day about a month ago and had a slightly mushy pedal by the end of the day.

[soulflyer]

Both A3 and S3 are fine on the track and will not overheat, that's only if its tuned inappropriately. I've tracked my "mildly" modified A3 and besides expected rotor glazing, car did great. Going to Laguna seca next month.

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I politely disagree. After 7 track events this season I had to conclude that the stock S3 brakes are not made for track use. Race Pads and RBF 600 fluid helped but there is a serious heat issue...
More details here... http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...n#post11813170

[mroberte]

If you have tracked 7 times, you should know that upgrading the brakes is a must. Stock setup is good for an occasional race day, but in your case, your doing a good amount of the whole season.

Any videos to share? Love watching them.

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[evanescent03]

Several cars are good to go with just pads & fluid. I'm taking the car out in Stock form so I'm anticipating some cool down laps in between hot laps. Kind of a shame the car would require a BBK to withstand some HPDE.... oh well. At least it's a nice commuter!

[magnessr]

Several cars are good to go with just pads & fluid. I'm taking the car out in Stock form so I'm anticipating some cool down laps in between hot laps. Kind of a shame the car would require a BBK to withstand some HPDE.... oh well. At least it's a nice commuter!

You can definitely get away with pads and fluid in these cars. I am only doing fluid and think the brakes are great for a few track days a year. Next year, I will upgrade the pads as well but the stock ones are holding up through autocross and track so far.