has anybody here added SAI port to an AEB head

[BARRY]

was wondering if any machine shop could do it...thinking i want to have it done so i can run my AEB head on my build.

[MoparFreak69]

First off, why?

Second, if the head is supposed to have the port and the car it was put into did not utilize an SAI pump, the factory would press a steel ball into the port to disable the function. If the port doesn't exist on your head then it's highly unlikely that anyone would even mess with trying to make one where one isn't.

[Corrado_Guy]

The ports for the SAI within the head is cast in and it is not on the AEB heads and although it probably could be done with enough time, effort, and money it is not worth it. If you really wanted it then the better idea would be to use injection ports in the exhaust manifolds like they did in the 1980's. The sole purpose of the SAI systems is to push air into the exhaust to help the cat get up to temps quickly so the O2 sensors work quicker and is simply an emissions device. If you do not have a cat then there is no point in running an SAI so you may as well get rid of it with the cat. If you are running ME7.x which is needed to control the SAI then you can either code it out or buy a tune that disables the monitoring of the SAI. I don't run a cat or SAI so I just made a blocker plate for the back of the head and then stuffed the SAI into a box and stored it away.

[123lilc]

how do you code it out?

[Kevin C]

Interesting clip...

[mauromj]

Most people want to delete the SAI, but you want to modify your head so you can retain it?! What is the world coming to!!!

[Kevin C]

Most people want to delete the SAI, but you want to modify your head so you can retain it?! What is the world coming to!!!

HYDROCARBONS

Hydrocarbon emissions result when fuel molecules in the engine do
not burn or burn only partially. Hydrocarbons react in the
presence of nitrogen oxides and sunlight to form ground-level
ozone, a major component of smog. Ozone irritates the eyes,
damages the lungs, and aggravates respiratory problems. It is
our most widespread and intractable urban air pollution problem.
A number of exhaust hydrocarbons are also toxic, with the
potential to cause cancer.

SAI helps with this... Seems like the right thing to do. My personal preference is to retain emissions equipment. Also, I have no clue if the SAI on the head actually worked or not after the mod.

[old guy]

I see no reason why you could not add an SAI port. It's simply a hole through the head that connects to the cylinder 4 exhaust port. Take location measurements from a AMB head and duplicate them on the AEB head.

Thanks to the VW diesel emissions shenanigans the emissions testing in the near future is going to get a bit more sophisticated and having a code written out will no longer be an option. Several States have already gone there. All they have to do as part of the emissions test is to perform a Readiness Reset. If one of the readiness switches comes back immediately as a "0" (passed) instead of a "1" (failed or incomplete) they will know that the emissions monitoring software has been tampered with and you will fail the emissions test.

Like it or not, it's coming. Barry is just getting ahead of the curve.....

[BARRY]

well...in California deleting then disabling SAI is a no no...ideally I want to setup my engine to be as stock looking as possible but provide the performance I want...but with the swirl around the EA888 Gen.3 in the new B9 chassis.........seriously thinking of ditching the B6 chassis all together. really really really dislike the interior of all A4's past the B7 though.....

from what I gather...simply drilling out the port with a long long bit isn't enough...the machinist will need to also drill into each exhaust port to open up the actual SAI. that is the easy part, finding a bit long enough to link all the ports is the hard part.

haven't been able to locate a machinist that could do this.

[old guy]

Are you sure that the connection goes across all four exhaust ports? I would be surprised if that is the case. All the SAI pump has to do is provide additional air into the exhaust stream. It shouldn’t matter if it is pumped into one exhaust port or all four. It’s all downstream of the combustion and gets thoroughly blended passing through the turbo and into the cat.

I could be wrong.

[MoparFreak69]

Are you sure that the connection goes across all four exhaust ports? I would be surprised if that is the case. All the SAI pump has to do is provide additional air into the exhaust stream. It shouldn’t matter if it is pumped into one exhaust port or all four. It’s all downstream of the combustion and gets thoroughly blended passing through the turbo and into the cat.

I could be wrong.

Yes it feeds all 4 ports. There is too much pulse division within the manifold to ensure a proper lean environment for the cat to heat consistently across the entire media. The SAI system is providing extra air to mix even between exhaust pulses. You also have to remember the system is designed to function at idle and low engine speeds where exhaust velocity is not very high and the volumes are also quite low.

[old guy]

Good to know, thanks! I learned something new today.

[SleeperAvant]

Or couldn't you just take an AMB head and port it?

[MoparFreak69]

Good to know, thanks! I learned something new today.

That said all you need to do is either elevate your warm-up idle speed or tune it to lean the lambda out during low engine temps. That's what I did with my GTI. After doing testing in similar conditions I found I could heat the convertor up quicker sans the SAI system by a second or 2. Not a significant change but beats having extra BS hanging off my junk to go bad.

[BARRY]

can't find any machine shop that would do this! even asked a friend who's a machinist!

[dougyfresh]

can't find any machine shop that would do this! even asked a friend who's a machinist!

Keep asking. There are plenty of folks that will do it. Its probably cheaper and easier to port a small block head than to procure an AEB head and retrofit the emissions information.

Betcha you'll make more streetable power on a ported small port head than an off-the-shelf AEB...

[BARRY]

was planning to port the AEB head as well...thing is, there aren't many out there that can properly port and flow bench the 20v vw/audi head besides Integrated Engineering. IE charges a mucho mucho premium though.

[Kevin C]

Why not use the air injection port to add compressed air to the exhaust to quicken turbo spool?

I'm not the first person to think of this...

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...engines-boost/

[diagnosticator]

was planning to port the AEB head as well...thing is, there aren't many out there that can properly port and flow bench the 20v vw/audi head besides Integrated Engineering. IE charges a mucho mucho premium though.

You can send your head to Extrude Hone and they will do abrasive flow machining to the intake and exhaust port runners in the head. You can specify how much to enlarge the ports, and the surface finish. The results are vastly superior to any hand porting job. About $500 for a 1.8T.





http://www.extrudehoneafm.com/

[old guy]

Why not use the air injection port to add compressed air to the exhaust to quicken turbo spool?

I'm not the first person to think of this...

Neat idea! It would take some serious programming on the B6 to keep it from causing havoc with the O2 sensor.

[diagnosticator]

Why not use the air injection port to add compressed air to the exhaust to quicken turbo spool?

I'm not the first person to think of this...

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...engines-boost/

Volvo claims the effect is instantaneous, but that is impossible. There is a delay between the driver's demand and the arrival of the compressed air pulse at the turbine inlet. The energy of the compressed air pulse available to drive the turbine is seriously limited also. The response of fuel injection and subsequent combustion to provide energy to drive the turbine is a lot faster. I think in practical terms, it's just a marketing gimmick.

[Kevin C]

Volvo claims the effect is instantaneous, but that is impossible. There is a delay between the driver's demand and the arrival of the compressed air pulse at the turbine inlet. The energy of the compressed air pulse available to drive the turbine is seriously limited also. The response of fuel injection and subsequent combustion to provide energy to drive the turbine is a lot faster. I think in practical terms, it's just a marketing gimmick.

Even though the D5 engine features two sequential Borg-Warner turbos – a 38mm turbo feeding a 53mm one – to help reduce lag this is further aided by a pulse of compressed air injected into the exhaust manifold, spinning the smaller turbo from idling at 20,000rpm to a fully operational 150,000rpm in 0.3sec.

A pulse of air, nominally at 12 bar and lasting about a tenth of a second, is injected into the exhaust manifold

Instantaneous is impossible.... but a .3 second spool most likely feels instantaneous, especially compared to typical turbo lag. The Volvo is a Diesel, but the same concept could be applied to other configurations. EDIT: Where in that link I poses did you find a claim of instantaneous? This is the claim:

This quickly brings the turbo up to speed, filling the gap and virtually eliminating lag, Volvo says.

Another way of saying, it's really small.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-new...-car-may-2016/

[Human Garbage]

...If one of the readiness switches comes back immediately as a "0" (passed) instead of a "1" (failed or incomplete) they will know that the emissions monitoring software has been tampered with and you will fail the emissions test...

There is a way to deal with that in software. It requires disassembly and re-coding, but it essentially adds a delay to simulate the component test. The test equipment is therefore none the wiser to the change. You won't see people talk about it much because to share it around means the testing standards will change yet again...

As far as the OP is concerned, it isn't an issue however. He should just take MoparFreak's approach with the raised idle/lean mixture to get the same results as having a SAI for getting the cat up to temp, and then zero out the expected flow rate by voltage for the SAI. It requires having the N112 plugged in, but nothing else to register a pass. Using the zero flow rate trick has the bonus of the diagnostic running, so reset and retest won't immediately and be flag it as modified. This is a 'real' pass, not a VCDS false pass. All credit goes to a member here for finding and sharing it: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ection-testing. When I had to pass inspection it showed as passed on the printout, so tried and verified.

If the OP has to pass a visual inspection, then just put a bracket behind the head to hold the combi valve in position and have all the junk installed. Done deal. No machining required.

[BARRY]

You can send your head to Extrude Hone and they will do abrasive flow machining to the intake and exhaust port runners in the head. You can specify how much to enlarge the ports, and the surface finish. The results are vastly superior to any hand porting job. About $500 for a 1.8T.





http://www.extrudehoneafm.com/

almost forgot about this company...any idea if anybody has done this to the AEB head and their result if so?

[diagnosticator]

I don't know of any 1.8Ts that have been Extrude Honed, cylinder heads or manifolds. Extrude Hone porting would be a lot better than hand porting. Maybe it has been overlooked, most likely few are aware of it. Cost of Extrude Honing should be similar to hand porting too.

Using AFM, the process abrasive media flow direction is done in the flow direction of the intake and exhaust ports, optimizing flow in both the intake and exhaust ports. Intake and exhaust manifold flow efficiency is optimized by AFM as well.

[old guy]

There is a way to deal with that in software. It requires disassembly and re-coding, but it essentially adds a delay to simulate the component test. The test equipment is therefore none the wiser to the change. You won't see people talk about it much because to share it around means the testing standards will change yet again...

As far as the OP is concerned, it isn't an issue however. He should just take MoparFreak's approach with the raised idle/lean mixture to get the same results as having a SAI for getting the cat up to temp, and then zero out the expected flow rate by voltage for the SAI. It requires having the N112 plugged in, but nothing else to register a pass. Using the zero flow rate trick has the bonus of the diagnostic running, so reset and retest won't immediately and be flag it as modified. This is a 'real' pass, not a VCDS false pass. All credit goes to a member here for finding and sharing it: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ection-testing. When I had to pass inspection it showed as passed on the printout, so tried and verified.

If the OP has to pass a visual inspection, then just put a bracket behind the head to hold the combi valve in position and have all the junk installed. Done deal. No machining required.

That's pretty interesting stuff! Not worth the effort to remove the SAI from an AMB head but I can see the advantage if you wanted to go with a non SAI head and still pass emissions. Unfortunately as I previously stated I believe because of the VW diesel shenanigans the emissions testing is going to get a bit more sophisticated in the very near future and any modifications are going to get a lot harder to pull off.

[Kevin C]

Yes it feeds all 4 ports. There is too much pulse division within the manifold to ensure a proper lean environment for the cat to heat consistently across the entire media. The SAI system is providing extra air to mix even between exhaust pulses. You also have to remember the system is designed to function at idle and low engine speeds where exhaust velocity is not very high and the volumes are also quite low.

Om my turbocharged Raider, the air injection is just after the turbo, on startup pretty much as long as you add air before the catalyst, you will reduce emissions. While a single injection point on a modded head wouldn't be ideal, I think it would be more than enough to pass emissions. The part would be there, the system would function and remember, that the added air goes through a turbo ( nice little blender) before it gets to the converter. As good a stock? No. Good enough to reduce startup emissions and pass a smog check, absolutely.

You can send your head to Extrude Hone and they will do abrasive flow machining to the intake and exhaust port runners in the head. You can specify how much to enlarge the ports, and the surface finish. The results are vastly superior to any hand porting job. About $500 for a 1.8T.





http://www.extrudehoneafm.com/

From what I have read, extrude honing is more expensive than an old school port and polish job. Also, it cannot optimize a port's shape. It only removes material based on surface speed. When a good head porter reworks a head, it's based on tacit knowledge of what works, backed up by flow bench numbers. That includes how you modify the short side radius for best flow; Extrude honing can't do that and the short side radius is one the most critical parts of a properly ported head..

Extrude honing is great for a manifold that you can't get into without cutting and then rewelding. On a head that you can get to all the surfaces, a good porter will always produce a better product. It's not that extrude honing wont work, its that a good hand ported head will work better and apparently is less expensive. No way can an extrude hone properly blend a short side radius as well as can be done with hand porting. CNC ported heads are typically based on gains developed when porting by hand.

[DannyRobot]

Resurrecting an old thread because I might be doing this very soon.

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[DannyRobot]

was wondering if any machine shop could do it...thinking i want to have it done so i can run my AEB head on my build.

Did you ever do this Barry?

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[carjones]

Been there...
You can find my old project thread from last year, same premise.
I found a sai equipped big port AEB.
They are out there.
I had a timing gear failure because of the revs but switched to IE gear and has been fine.
Monitors set as stock, I’m still working out the tune for more power. Really woke up this little motor.

[BARRY]

haven't done this. picked up a built motor from a friend that i plan to swap in at some point in 2020.

Factory SAI Equipped Big Port AEB you say? this is news to me.

[JDCinATL]

this!!! WHY? have the SAI coded out and yank it off the car completely, plug the holes and enjoy no more CEL ever from SAI!!!!!!

[BARRY]

in California we have emissions testing and visual verification every 2 years.

[carjones]

And to check back in, I have passed all emissions visual and monitored tests as required.
No drama at the smog inspection

[shoemaker617]

Pretty sure an aeb head has holes to mount the combi-valve, just doesnt have the secondary air ports to the back of the exhaust valves. You cant code it out and mount everything up to pass the visual inspection

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[EuroxS4]

Pretty sure an aeb head has holes to mount the combi-valve, just doesnt have the secondary air ports to the back of the exhaust valves. You cant code it out and mount everything up to pass the visual inspection

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You sure can. Mount everything as intended and cod out the SAI. Set the SAI map to 0.0 across the map to equal a pass result for SAI. That map shows values in terms of flow g/s. When setting to 0.0 across the map the SAI automatically equals PASS result. Is it legal,probably not,has it been done, fuck yeah.