2016 S6 APR TCU Tune Issue

[Clipse3GT]

Well I just had my MY 16 S6 tuned yesterday with APR v1.1 93 oct. Stage I & TCU Tune.

However, I found out there is a issue with this TCU version (4G0927166F S0006).

It causes the car to have some issues with gear changes especially the lower gears causing rev hangs and abrupt gear changes. However the primary issue is the car will not go past 5100 rpm in any mode D,S, or M 2nd - 7th gear and only to 5500 rpm in first gear. The load on the engine / boost level have no difference and car will always shift at those shift points. Basically making the car a pain to drive and unable to tap all of the performance.

Fix currently is to remove just the TCU tune and revert back to stock calibration until there is a fix / patch for the issue.

Apparently, APR is aware of the issue and there is a support ticket out regarding the issue on the TCU version.

Just a warning in case anyone else has the same TCU version and wants a TCU tune.

I will update this thread as I get more information regarding a fix or update to the map.

[jsmonet]

Interesting. Did you leave auto-upshift on for first gear only, or for all gears?

[Clipse3GT]

I left auto upshift and downshift on in manual mode since it's DD / road car. Not sure if it would change if auto upshift was off?

[zcd2.7t]

Bummer.

A quick search would have forewarned you about the TCU tune issues....

[SITH7]

That explains a lot. Thought I was crazy...I'll revert back and hopefully APR will come with a patch or path for us to fix/reimburse.

[Clipse3GT]

That explains a lot. Thought I was crazy...I'll revert back and hopefully APR will come with a patch or path for us to fix/reimburse.

Do you know which TCU version you have? It can be checked via VCDS or mine was on my work order from my tuner.

I though I was crazy at first as well. However with more testing it became apparent there is a bug in the TCU software.

[hmuller]

Do you know which TCU version you have? It can be checked via VCDS or mine was on my work order from my tuner.

I though I was crazy at first as well. However with more testing it became apparent there is a bug in the TCU software.

I was thinking of getting the APR ECU/TCU tune but now I'm a little worried. Below is the info from my VCDS autoscan. The TCU part number matches but I don't see the S0006 (just 0006). Would my TCU be affected by this bug?

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 166 F HW: 0B5 927 156 K
Component: 0B5 40TFSINAR H03 0006

[Brooklyn]

I did a search and don't recall seeing a lot (or any) posts regarding bugs for the TCU tune, other than that one thread that talks about the AMAX issue (or whatever it's called). Are these "bugs" limited to post-facelift cars? I just had the tune installed on my '13, and so far no issues. Holds revs longer in S mode, and the downshifts from 3rd-2nd at low speeds or slightly more "aggressive" than the recent TSB software update from Audi, but certainly not bad. I've also noticed a decrease in that weird situation where the car seemingly stalls after coming to a quick stop, or near-stop and then accelerating.

[Clipse3GT]

I was thinking of getting the APR ECU/TCU tune but now I'm a little worried. Below is the info from my VCDS autoscan. The TCU part number matches but I don't see the S0006 (just 0006). Would my TCU be affected by this bug?

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 166 F HW: 0B5 927 156 K
Component: 0B5 40TFSINAR H03 0006

It looks like you have the same version as I do. So the TCU tune has glitches as mentioned in the first post. Otherwise, no issues with the ECU tune, just TCU.

[Clipse3GT]

I did a search and don't recall seeing a lot (or any) posts regarding bugs for the TCU tune, other than that one thread that talks about the AMAX issue (or whatever it's called). Are these "bugs" limited to post-facelift cars? I just had the tune installed on my '13, and so far no issues. Holds revs longer in S mode, and the downshifts from 3rd-2nd at low speeds or slightly more "aggressive" than the recent TSB software update from Audi, but certainly not bad. I've also noticed a decrease in that weird situation where the car seemingly stalls after coming to a quick stop, or near-stop and then accelerating.

I would think it only pertains to the C7.5 post face lift cars. I did extensive research regarding APR ECU/TCU tunes and seemed like they were the most developed for the C7.5 however this issue was not documented anywhere on public forums or websites.

[Sean@APR]

I'm not entirely sure what the OP means by "found out there is a issue". I think I saw your ticket this morning and replied asking what you meant by that.

We DO have a ticket in for this, it came in a couple days ago and we've been trying to get somebody to make us a video of exactly what's happening. Adjusting shift points is straight forward, we just need to know exactly what the scenario is in order to make the right adjustment.

If your car is experiencing this, please grab a quick video with your phone of the dash. Also, please explain in the video how much throttle you're giving the car.

In short, to adjust shift points we need to know:
1. RPM before the shift
2. Pedal input
3. Gear before the shift
4. Expected behavior

A video is the best way to cover all of the first 3.

[Sean@APR]

That explains a lot. Thought I was crazy...I'll revert back and hopefully APR will come with a patch or path for us to fix/reimburse.

The first we've heard about this came just a couple days ago. All we need is to know exactly what is happening that is unusual and we'll update the shift maps and roll a release. Very quick and easy process.

[Don Draper]

So OP didn't actually experience all he wrote, but only read about what happened to someone else?

[Clipse3GT]

So OP didn't actually experience all he wrote, but only read about what happened to someone else?

My car experiences all of these issues I stated. I am referring to my own car. When I say I found out I found out from experiencing on my own car.

I am at HS tuning now and grabbed the video. Sending it over to APR for analysis.

[jsmonet]

mind uploading a version for us to check out too? I get that it will likely just be a boring "oh it shifted" kind of video, but still somewhat curious.

I'd love to test this out, but 5100rpm in 2nd gear is... well, it's not slow and traffic's too tight most of the time.

[Don Draper]

My car experiences all of these issues I stated. I am referring to my own car. When I say I found out I found out from experiencing on my own car.

I am at HS tuning now and grabbed the video. Sending it over to APR for analysis.

Ah, got it. GL!

[Clipse3GT]

I'm not entirely sure what the OP means by "found out there is a issue". I think I saw your ticket this morning and replied asking what you meant by that.

We DO have a ticket in for this, it came in a couple days ago and we've been trying to get somebody to make us a video of exactly what's happening. Adjusting shift points is straight forward, we just need to know exactly what the scenario is in order to make the right adjustment.

If your car is experiencing this, please grab a quick video with your phone of the dash. Also, please explain in the video how much throttle you're giving the car.

In short, to adjust shift points we need to know:
1. RPM before the shift
2. Pedal input
3. Gear before the shift
4. Expected behavior

A video is the best way to cover all of the first 3.

Sean,

I apologize for the confusion. This is pertaining to my vehicle with the APR TCU tune. MY 16 S6. I hope this clarifies.

Tunes:

ECU - v1.1 93 Octane Stage I
TCU - DSG S6 Tune

Issues:

The vehicle will upshift to a high gear at 5100-5500 in 2nd - 7th gear and will up shift at 5500 in 1st to 2nd gear. This will occur independent of drive mode D, S, or M, occurs in every mode. The car will not go above 5500 rpm in any gear under any circumstance. This is independent of throttle input position 0-100% it will occur at the entire spectrum of throttle input. It can occur at WOT or just gently accelerating the car however once you reach 5200-5400 rpm it will upshift ALWAYS to the next gear.

Conditions:

RPM Range: 5200-5400 rpm gears 1st thru 7th
Throttle Position: 0%-100% - condition occurs at every position
Gear - Occurs In every gear
Drive Mode - Occurs in every Drive Mode

Condition Set in TCU that are user definable.

Auto Upshift - On
Auto Downshift - On
Launch RPM - 3000, 4000, 5000 rpm


I had Jeff from HS tuning record video. He has all of the copies and should have forwarded them to you as well. We tried to describe best we could on video. However, also captured it on tape multiple times. It is impossible to go that high on rpm in the higher gears due to traffic or legal restrictions.

- - - Updated - - -

The first we've heard about this came just a couple days ago. All we need is to know exactly what is happening that is unusual and we'll update the shift maps and roll a release. Very quick and easy process.

I posted on the forums since this is the first I heard of this issue regarding the TCU and wanted to see if there was other people or isolated to my vehicle.

[Clipse3GT]

mind uploading a version for us to check out too? I get that it will likely just be a boring "oh it shifted" kind of video, but still somewhat curious.

I'd love to test this out, but 5100rpm in 2nd gear is... well, it's not slow and traffic's too tight most of the time.

I will have Jeff from HS tuning send me a video so I may upload it for you too see. It is not very exciting but you will understand what I mean.

[Sean@APR]

I had Jeff from HS tuning record video. He has all of the copies and should have forwarded them to you as well.

Video received.

Thanks for all the information! This is exactly what we need. I've got the video and we'll get right to it.

[Webtoker]

I have a 2016 S6 with the TCU tune and do not have this problem. Figured I would mention that in case others are looking to tune :-)

[jsmonet]

I have a 2016 S6 with the TCU tune and do not have this problem. Figured I would mention that in case others are looking to tune :-)

There are a number of variables that could be different enough about your tune that it would have little bearing on this problem. Revision of your tcu, auto up and down elections, launch control set points


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[Clipse3GT]

I have a 2016 S6 with the TCU tune and do not have this problem. Figured I would mention that in case others are looking to tune :-)

Again this issue is specific to the TCU version I listed above. You might have a different TCU version.

[Clipse3GT]

Just got a update that APR is currently working on a fix for this TCU issue.

[Clipse3GT]

Sean @ APR, any updates or a fix or patch you guys are working on?

[Sean@APR]

Sean @ APR, any updates or a fix or patch you guys are working on?

We've verified that this does only affect a single boxcode. The next step is to build some test files and get somebody with an affected car into a dealer to run the test files and report back the results.

Test files are incremental progress to figure out exactly which intervention is causing the TCU to not follow the shift maps. You (and the other people with this boxcode) will be hearing from support soon to see who lives close to a dealer and can run the tests.

[Clipse3GT]

We've verified that this does only affect a single boxcode. The next step is to build some test files and get somebody with an affected car into a dealer to run the test files and report back the results.

Test files are incremental progress to figure out exactly which intervention is causing the TCU to not follow the shift maps. You (and the other people with this boxcode) will be hearing from support soon to see who lives close to a dealer and can run the tests.

Sean, thank you for the update. Good to hear there is a solution on the way. Would be happy to test the solution files.

[hmuller]

We've verified that this does only affect a single boxcode. The next step is to build some test files and get somebody with an affected car into a dealer to run the test files and report back the results.

Test files are incremental progress to figure out exactly which intervention is causing the TCU to not follow the shift maps. You (and the other people with this boxcode) will be hearing from support soon to see who lives close to a dealer and can run the tests.

Sean@APR, I'm contemplating getting the APR ECU/TCU tune perhaps next time there is a sale or at Waterfest 23. I believe my TCU may be of the boxcode that is affected (see below my VCDS scan) so I'm anxious about your progress with a fix. I live within 45 minutes of several APR dealers (e.g. Redline Speed Worx, Drive Auto Works) and have some vacation coming up. I could swing over there and run some tests if you see an advantage of trying your test files on car that is completely stock. Or if required, we can put the ECU/TCU tune on if there is a discount at the time

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 166 F HW: 0B5 927 156 K
Component: 0B5 40TFSINAR H03 0006

Another question about your ECU tune. Before you flash, I assume you read my current ECU software and keep it on your server to flash back to stock (e.g. before I bring my car in for service or if I don't like the tune). My dealership told me that Audi is coming up with a software fix for a fault code that gets tripped during refueling if the car is not completely powered down. If Audi applies this software fix in the future, will I loose it once I switch back to the APR tune or to my "old" stock software that was stored on your server? When switching back to the APR software, do you download the now updated Audi software to your server or keep the "old" version that was originally pulled from my car (or both)?

[Clipse3GT]

Hopefully Sean can gives us more insight when the test file will be avaliable.

[Sean@APR]

Hopefully Sean can gives us more insight when the test file will be avaliable.

Test file has been up all week, we've been waiting for the customer that agreed to do the tests to get by the dealer.

For clarification, this is a test file were talking about. The goal is to see exactly what is and isn't working. A test file is not something you want to drive around on.

In this case, it shifts every gear at 4K in all modes. At least, it should if everything is working as it should. If it doesn't, then we know what is really going on. The second test uses one that always shifts at 6k. Same concept, but testing a different intervention.

We chose the particular test customer because he lives close to the dealer.

Hopefully he gets the tests done next week and we'll know precisely what he situation is.

[Clipse3GT]

Sean,

I am off Monday so I'll contact Jeff at HS tuning and try and get it tested for you guys on Monday.

[Sean@APR]

Really? That's awesome man. We'll reach out to him as well and set this up.

Sean,

I am off Monday so I'll contact Jeff at HS tuning and try and get it tested for you guys on Monday.

[Clipse3GT]

Well we just tested the test debug file 4k version. The 6K version was not avaliable to test. The car shifted at around 5500-5800 rpm in modes D and S in gear 1 thru 4. M mode still shifted at 5500 rpm in first. 5200 rpm in gears 2nd thru 4th in M mode.

So we will wait for round 2 of test files. Nearly identical to what it was doing in original version.

The car does not recognize the 4 k shift points currently on the test file.

Flash car back to original stock TCU tune. Will wait for more test files.

[Sean@APR]

Well we just tested the test debug file 4k version. The 6K version was not avaliable to test. The car shifted at around 5500-5800 rpm in modes D and S in gear 1 thru 4. M mode still shifted at 5500 rpm in first. 5200 rpm in gears 2nd thru 4th in M mode.

So we will wait for round 2 of test files. Nearly identical to what it was doing in original version.

The car does not recognize the 4 k shift points currently on the test file.

Flash car back to original stock TCU tune. Will wait for more test files.

Thanks for doing the test. That showed what we needed to see. We're building what should be the fix file now. I'll update again when it's ready.

[Clipse3GT]

Sean,

Tested the 8/23 map revision today. No changes noted still the same exact behavior car shift same as it did every other version. So the new map file did not improve or worsen the issue.

Auto Upshift - ON
Auto Downshift - ON

Also, tested the original TCU file from APR. However, with these options selected instead of the Auto Up/Downshift - ON. Decided to turn everything to OFF.

Auto Upshift - OFF - Manual Override Mode
Auto Downshift - OFF -Manual Override Mode

Car upshifts/downshift still earlier in D and S mode in 1st gear-4th gear most of the time going up to about 5800 rpm. Unable to test 5-7th on the road. However, something interesting happens in Manual mode. Car will still AUTO UPshift/DOWNshift in Manual mode with the it selected to be completely manual per the APR coding. However, now first gear still shifts @ 5800. However, 2nd - 4th gear now shift somewhere between 6300-6500 rpm. So now it does not shift early like it did previously at 5200-5500 rpm, but the Manual override to have it always stay in gear does not work either, however at least it holds it mostly til redline or almost redline.

I think part of the issue with the revisions is that the Auto upshift/downshift coding is either incorrect for this specific TCU or there is a issue with the script / code implemented by APR to force the car to be true manual mode with no auto up/downshifts. It might not transfer from the other 12-15 MY to the 16 MY TCU 0006 Revision. Probably the coding itself need's revising and not just shift point on the MAP. I have a feeling this issue is deeper than just some basic settings in the TCU map where to upshift. Might be some actual other coding that needs to be rewritten for this specific TCU revision.

Any questions let me. Please forward this info to APR. Thanks for your help, cooperation, and understanding.

[Sean@APR]

For the record, I sit near the guy that's working on this. I hear from him daily about what's going on.

Might be some actual other coding that needs to be rewritten for this specific TCU revision.

Something like that, yes. The 2016 version of the transmission looks superficially similar to the previous ones, but is completely different in actual operation. This whole process is about figuring out exactly what changes what. Usually people don't get to see this part of the process, but thanks for helping out and we'll get it wrapped up.

[Clipse3GT]

For the record, I sit near the guy that's working on this. I hear from him daily about what's going on.




Something like that, yes. The 2016 version of the transmission looks superficially similar to the previous ones, but is completely different in actual operation. This whole process is about figuring out exactly what changes what. Usually people don't get to see this part of the process, but thanks for helping out and we'll get it wrapped up.

Sean,

Any updates recently on progress of the revisions for the TCU?

[Clipse3GT]

BUMP!

[hmuller]

Any update?

[Clipse3GT]

Any update?

I just got an email from my tuner that they received a new test file and instructions from APR that is supposed to correct the problem. I will be testing it early next week.

[Clipse3GT]

Update: 9/21/16

Tested new BETA test file. Thus far the updated TCU tune is finally working. Auto Up Shifts are off and auto downshifts are on and the car redlines @ 6500 rpm in M mode. Need more testing in D and S mode. I will update this thread more as I gather more info.