How screwed is my new rack...

[badger.]

Got an alignment after installing a new steering rack. Took a roadtrip, but had to add fluid a couple times now. Figured it was still a little air here and there making it out... However took my tire off to investigate a brake squeak and found my new steering rack inner tie rod looking like this (on both sides).






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[JayDog747]

Dude, that's just the boot. Mine does the same thing. It's obvious he's just using a universal cover to keep his cost down. If you gently push it back in, it will return to normal. But it will eventually do it again.

[LINDW4LL]

+1. The boot is just there to prevent dirt from entering the rack.

That said, when you have a chance I'd either get a factory boot or clamp that one down at the end, if possible, to make sure dirt doesn't collect in there over the long-term.

[JayDog747]

Yea phuk dat! The RS3 comes out next year.

[badger.]

Does anyone have a diagram of what is under the boot? I'm trying to figure out how it got so twisted... It was straight When I installed it and then twisted all to hell like that after the alignment shop had it. And now the boots are full of fluid.

Can rotating the inner tie rod end (think twisting the end of the rack without the outer tie rod in place) damage the rack?

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[badger.]

Dude, that's just the boot. Mine does the same thing. It's obvious he's just using a universal cover to keep his cost down. If you gently push it back in, it will return to normal. But it will eventually do it again.

It's twisted around, not just scrunched. I can understand it being squished a little weird but how would it get twisted around?

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[LINDW4LL]

Does anyone have a diagram of what's under the boot? And now the boots are full of fluid.

Can rotating the inner tie rod end (think twisting the end of the rack without the outer tie rod in place) damage the rack?

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Ouch, so the rack is shot, but not because of the boot ;)

No idea why the boot is all contorted. It's just the inner tie rod under the boot basically. Turning the tie rod cannot damage the rack.

[JayDog747]

Nein! Nein! Nein! Don't sweat the boot. Like I said, it's not the proper size and you can easily twist it back. It's just a dust cover.

There is not supposed to be fluid in the boot. You're gonna have to ship that back and get a new one. Sorry Dude, I know how fun it is replacing that rack.

The inner tie rod is a ball n socket. If it is rotated, it has no effect on the internals of the rack. If you do a search for ZF steering racks you may find a diagram.

Edit: The Rack Doctor uses a zip tie on the outer boot and really clamps down on it. When the tech does the alignment the inner rod moves causing the boot to rotate with it.

[badger.]

Thanks guys for the help.

Is there a chance that in rotating the outer tie rod, the inner tie rod becomes unthreaded at all (see red circled area)? If the ball joint (blue arrow, right?) & inner to outer threads were stiff enough, or the inner tie rod was not threaded in all the way? Does that inner tie rod end that is circled seal any fluid?

I ask because I know I had to hold the inner rod end with a wrench to stop it from rotating when I initially swapped the outer ends. So I can see how the alignment shop had the whole assembly twisting; whether it was the ball joint or male threads spinning, I don't know yet. Also What I don't know is what that male end of the inner rod threads into specifically, and if that ball joint was tight enough and those threads loose enough, could the alignment shop have accidentally loosened the entire inner rod?

Honestly at this point am I just trying to determine if I need to chase the Rack Doctor for a replacement or the alignment shop for doing something that might have caused the leak. I don't want to place the "blame" on the wrong people. Also sucks because I am 500 miles from home and my car is effectively undriveable. And I need to work Monday -_-

[Velox]

Huh, it is leaking? What is it leaking?

[badger.]

Huh, it is leaking? What is it leaking?

Both boots have fluid in them (if i squeeze the boot I can hear fluid flowing and bubbles and stuff). No leaks to the ground or anything since the boots are still intact. Rack is still in the car at this moment. I'm trying to find a good drawing of the inner end of the inner tie rod to rack assembly but not having any luck. So I'm not sure exactly what is leaking.

[badger.]

Update:

Got the rack out, boots full of PRESSURIZED fluid... pretty sure that is not normal, eh?

https://youtu.be/Ww28xUg64RY


don't mind my yooper/Canadian accent, I may not be in the best mood after burning >$1k and 2 days of my vacation to fix this BS

[Bordom]

The seals failed. Get a new rack

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[melomandn]

DONT BUY FROM RACK DOCTOR.

Theres a reason their price is so "good". I found out the hard way as well on my B5. I bought a rack from them a couple years ago and it only lasted about 3 months before it started leaking. My boots twisted up the exact same way as well.

[2004B6S4]

wow sorry to hear that you have to waste time doing this job twice. I've actually heard of this happening with rackdoctor racks in other threads. I thought it was odd when I contacted them and was told that they don't sell racks without the inner tie rods, and that diy'ing the inners will void the warranty on the rack. makes me wonder if this is "normal" for his racks and that the policy was made with this in mind

[ven0m]

wow sorry to hear that you have to waste time doing this job twice. I've actually heard of this happening with rackdoctor racks in other threads. I thought it was odd when I contacted them and was told that they don't sell racks without the inner tie rods, and that diy'ing the inners will void the warranty on the rack. makes me wonder if this is "normal" for his racks and that the policy was made with this in mind

Why would changing inner tie rods void the warranty? You would damage the steering rack only if you manage to tighten the inner tie-rod like an elephant, twisting on the rack itself. Or am I mistaken and it's much easier to damage the rack?

[2004B6S4]

I was as surprised as you to hear this. I'm no mechanic so I'm really not qualified to argue with the guy, but I've read plenty of diy articles and discussions online about changing inner tie rods and I've never heard of anyone causing a leak. My guess is that his racks leak inside the boot all the time but most people don't know until they go to change the inner tie rods, and then when they find out and try to claim on the warranty he blames them for causing the leak... now keep in mind that's just a guess, I could be talking out of my ass. but here is the exact email reply I got:

Thank you for your interest. yes I do have the rack available. the rack comes complete with inner tie rods. if you change the inner tie rods this will void your warranty if you have inners you would like installed we will be happy to do this for you. Unfortunatly we hear almost every day "My rack was fine I changed the inner tie rods recently so can i have a discount ...... after I changed my tie rods the rack started leaking" see the pattern here. there is a rite way and a wrong way to install inner tie rods and the wrong way will result in rack failure for this reason we do not sell our units without inners



Thank you again for your interest

[ven0m]

I was as surprised as you to hear this. I'm no mechanic so I'm really not qualified to argue with the guy, but I've read plenty of diy articles and discussions online about changing inner tie rods and I've never heard of anyone causing a leak. My guess is that his racks leak inside the boot all the time but most people don't know until they go to change the inner tie rods, and then when they find out and try to claim on the warranty he blames them for causing the leak... now keep in mind that's just a guess, I could be talking out of my ass. but here is the exact email reply I got:

Could be either-of as you said. Either the product he sells is shit quality and uses the inner-rods as a warranty loop-hole. Or he had bad experience from the past from one or two customers who actually did bust the rack when over-tightening and twisting the rack.

[badger.]

Yeah. I bought today's replacement from FCP Euro ($400 more than rackdoctor) but it the part # actually matches, and the boots look OEM. I've got it aligned pretty good, the wheels are straight and it tracks good, my steering wheel is just a bit off. But I am driving to the local dealer tomorrow and getting it aligned again anyway.



Silver lining, I have changed steering rack twice now in like 8 days (did I mention I'm on vacation). Some vacation... Anyway I am pretty good at it now lol. Took maybe 6 hours this time not counting dinner break, and that is in someone else's garage without my tools.

[audinutt]

Rack doctor was kind of dickish when I talked to him about racks and inner tie rod. Plus my rack leaked from the high pressure hard lines after I installed it. I was pissed.. Jorgen from now on for racks

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[TarlCabot]

Yeah. I bought today's replacement from FCP Euro ($400 more than rackdoctor) but it the part # actually matches, and the boots look OEM. I've got it aligned pretty good, the wheels are straight and it tracks good, my steering wheel is just a bit off. But I am driving to the local dealer tomorrow and getting it aligned again anyway.



Silver lining, I have changed steering rack twice now in like 8 days (did I mention I'm on vacation). Some vacation... Anyway I am pretty good at it now lol. Took maybe 6 hours this time not counting dinner break, and that is in someone else's garage without my tools.

Wow... sorry you have went through so much.
there are many places that claim they can "align", but they really cant ( TRUTH be know these place equipment is worn out and cam't)... as much WORK as i have done to my car, i finally had an alignment done and the steering was off... went back and ended up having lots of other issues because of that!

I "eye balled" it myself and going to have to take to someone more trust worthy to correct/verify it is right!
the problem is... ( because i know the mechanics) is that the equipment is worn out and big business/corporations don't want to upgrade or fix it.

[pwest15]

Wow... sorry you have went through so much.
there are many places that claim they can "align", but they really cant ( TRUTH be know these place equipment is worn out and cam't)... as much WORK as i have done to my car, i finally had an alignment done and the steering was off... went back and ended up having lots of other issues because of that!

I "eye balled" it myself and going to have to take to someone more trust worthy to correct/verify it is right!
the problem is... ( because i know the mechanics) is that the equipment is worn out and big business/corporations don't want to upgrade or fix it.

My advice is to find a place with a Hunter alignment rack. I called ahead to a lot of places to get it done. Local racer boys and other people with slammed cars actually do have good suggestions because only experienced techs with good alignment equipment will align those cars

[badger.]

UPDATE!!!


TL;DR - I can't recommend RackDoctor.

Anyway, I've been running just fine on my FCP Euro sourced (ZF branded) remanned rack. Haven't needed a lick of fluid since the initial install.
I got the rackdoctor rack returned, along with a detailed letter of all the other expenses I went through to make my car driveable again that I would NOT have needed if his rack worked as advertised. Basically came up with about $500 in material costs only that I spent to fix the problem. As expected, he didn't bite. He is refunding me only a small part of that.

I sent him the link to the video I made of me opening the boot full of fluid (this one: https://youtu.be/yTbVAolJx0g). He hadn't even looked at it and all he kept saying was the fluid in the rack I returned looked dark and milky (yeah, I has washed it with hose before shipping). I imagine he will look closer at this after our phone call but not sure.

Another funny thing, I mentioned in my initial post here how he seemed like a good guy initially, answered phone on Saturday, hooked me up with early Monday AM shipping, etc.. One thing he noted was he was going to send a "genuine S4 rack" because "other people sell A4 racks as S4 replacements and they aren't the same, the S4 rack has a better turn radius".
While, long story short, I'm pretty damn sure he sent me a B7 A4 rack.. part number on it was : 8E1 422 105 D (maybe someone can confirm, I can't find a reliable source for P/N vs models - I do know the servotronic valve was different on the one he sent and I had to swap mine onto it initially)
Incidentally, the ZF rack from FCP Euro had a part number that actually matched my original: 8E1 422 105 B

Update x2: Actually just received a call back re: the different part numbers. He recognized there was a mixup there and is going to look more closely at that... so, all hope is not lost. I don't feel he deliberately tried to mess up my day. All in all I suppose getting refunded is fair, taking into context he just sells parts, and I imagine ECS or JHM for example would never refund someone an entire motor if a timing guide from their kit broke 3 days later. Seems like a decent guy, maybe I just got unlucky. I don't know.



However, the fact remains this whole misadventure has left me about $500 extra in the hole, not to mention the 2.5 days of family vacation ruined and all the stress & busted knuckles that came with a sourcing and performing a second install. Moral of the story: Don't buy from rackdoctor. Prices are tempting but not worth it in the end (For me at least).

[2004B6S4]

not surprising that he wouldn't refund all of it, but that issue with the rack part #'s is really horrible. If you're going to brag about not sending A4 racks as S4 racks then you damn sure better be checking those part #'s before you send them out. no excuse for that. ty for reporting your experience

[badger.]

Yeah. As things unfold it sounds like an honest mistake, and he has been more reasonable than I anticipated with the resolution of it all, of which I am definitely appreciative.
But that said, I did have an issue, and so it is hard to recommend when there is such a gap in QA.

[Lucca M]

That sucks and thanks for posting that. But at the end of the day its his fault and it shouldnt happen.