How to get the quickest launch out of a B6 S4 (Tiptronic)

[MEZMERIZE]

Hi everyone I have an 04 B6 S4 equipped with Tiptronic. I know manual is faster and I will probably exchange the car for one with a 6MT in the long run but for now I would like to get the most out of this car. I should also note that I am planning on getting a GIAC tip chip in the near future. Any other tips that I could know about? I would also appreciate 0-60 times as well.

[BlueBoostedAudi]

Get a ALS and install!

[MEZMERIZE]

Get a ALS and install!

I know I'm gonna sound really stupid right now but whats an ALS?

[Terry.Reese]

I know I'm gonna sound really stupid right now but whats an ALS?

Same here, ALS?

[Velox]

Anti Lag System, maybe he doesn't know the b6s4 has no turbo

[FastEddie]

Hi everyone I have an 04 B6 S4 equipped with Tiptronic. I know manual is faster and I will probably exchange the car for one with a 6MT in the long run but for now I would like to get the most out of this car. I should also note that I am planning on getting a GIAC tip chip in the near future. Any other tips that I could know about? I would also appreciate 0-60 times as well.

First off, when did GIAC get a tcu tune? First i have heard of it. I cant speak of GIAC TCU tune because i have never heard of it but JHM ECU tune will let you ride the stall and sort of have something similar to Launch Control.

JHM also has a TCU tune but i see your in New England and thats not an option for you at the moment because they only do it in house in Cali. If your ever around ill let you ride in my car which is Full JHM bolt on with ECU and TCU tune. And let me tell you there is not a manual that shifts faster than my car now.

One more suggestion, take a look and search which tune you want. There have been MULTIPLE threads on how GIAC tune did NOTHING for our cars. The only real tune that has had any success with our platform is JHM tune. If you want the biggest improvements, GO JHM tune 2.5 downpipes to a 2.5 exhaust. That is HUGE and will feel like a new car. Also suspension wise Sway bars make the car feel great.

But before you do ANYTHING to the car make sure its running right and maintenance is up to date.

[Terry.Reese]

First off, when did GIAC get a tcu tune? First i have heard of it. I cant speak of GIAC TCU tune because i have never heard of it but JHM ECU tune will let you ride the stall and sort of have something similar to Launch Control.

JHM also has a TCU tune but i see your in New England and thats not an option for you at the moment because they only do it in house in Cali. If your ever around ill let you ride in my car which is Full JHM bolt on with ECU and TCU tune. And let me tell you there is not a manual that shifts faster than my car now.

One more suggestion, take a look and search which tune you want. There have been MULTIPLE threads on how GIAC tune did NOTHING for our cars. The only real tune that has had any success with our platform is JHM tune. If you want the biggest improvements, GO JHM tune 2.5 downpipes to a 2.5 exhaust. That is HUGE and will feel like a new car. Also suspension wise Sway bars make the car feel great.

But before you do ANYTHING to the car make sure its running right and maintenance is up to date.

+1 for this, Thank you.

[MEZMERIZE]

First off, when did GIAC get a tcu tune? First i have heard of it. I cant speak of GIAC TCU tune because i have never heard of it but JHM ECU tune will let you ride the stall and sort of have something similar to Launch Control.

JHM also has a TCU tune but i see your in New England and thats not an option for you at the moment because they only do it in house in Cali. If your ever around ill let you ride in my car which is Full JHM bolt on with ECU and TCU tune. And let me tell you there is not a manual that shifts faster than my car now.

One more suggestion, take a look and search which tune you want. There have been MULTIPLE threads on how GIAC tune did NOTHING for our cars. The only real tune that has had any success with our platform is JHM tune. If you want the biggest improvements, GO JHM tune 2.5 downpipes to a 2.5 exhaust. That is HUGE and will feel like a new car. Also suspension wise Sway bars make the car feel great.

But before you do ANYTHING to the car make sure its running right and maintenance is up to date.

From my understanding GIAC got a TCU tune a while ago. I am very interested with this JHM ECU tune and TCU tune. Is it possible to order these parts and have them installed by a local service center here in NE? I was thinking of GIAC because they have an authorized dealer in New Hampshire and according to a lot of message boards people seem to be satisfied with the GIAC tip chip. I should also state that my car is running great with only 55k on it. (I wont be able to be in contact following tomorrow and the following 2 weeks because I will be away with no internet access).

[Terry.Reese]

Tcu tune? Transmission control unit?

[chain_slappins4]

Tcu tune? Transmission control unit?

yes sir..

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[Kylerb78]

I can attest, 2.5 catless all the way back with a JHM 93 tune is a BRAND NEW CAR. I have the opportunity to run on a 1/4 mile track this weekend against my buddy in his stock 2007 RS4. I am Tiptronic and he's manual. thoughts?

Details to follow!

As far as the TCU tune, yes, the tune is ONLY done onsite @ JHM and is optimized with the bolt on supercharger. Without the SC, the shifting is more crisp and quicker.

[s4ski]

FWIW I wouldn't necessarily rule out the effectiveness of tip. Yes, a skilled driver with MT will be quicker. But even without the TCU tune I have been amazed at how well a tip rips through gears...and it does it consistently every time. Besides not blowing out clutches.

[Brettannica]

This...

[FastEddie]

From my understanding GIAC got a TCU tune a while ago. I am very interested with this JHM ECU tune and TCU tune. Is it possible to order these parts and have them installed by a local service center here in NE? I was thinking of GIAC because they have an authorized dealer in New Hampshire and according to a lot of message boards people seem to be satisfied with the GIAC tip chip. I should also state that my car is running great with only 55k on it. (I wont be able to be in contact following tomorrow and the following 2 weeks because I will be away with no internet access).

GIAC tunes the DSG amazingly. Ive just never heard of it for OUR platform. JHM has a few dealers in New England quite a few in CT i believe.

[MEZMERIZE]

I think I'm going to stick to GIAC tune when I get it and test it out I will post my thoughts on it. However I will be a while until I get it.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

As far as I know, there is no TCU tune available for the pre 2006 tiptronics.

The 2006+ use a CAN-BUS system which allows the tuning to be done through the OBD port, whereas the pre 2006 cars can only be tuned if the mechatronic unit is removed.

Also, in terms of a good ECU tune, call Steve at Fabspeed. Steve tunes Maclarens, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc... every day for a living and he's EXTREMELY good at what he does. Steve was the one who did the base tuning on my car a way while back (I've since developed my own tune), but Steve-o gave me the information and know-how to get me started.

The take away point it is this: Unlike JHM, who contracted out their tuning to another individual (Count Vaughn IIRC) Steve does his all his own calibrations from so he can work with you to set your car up however you want it.

Not to say that JHM can't modify their tune at all, but I would suspect that you'd have a way easier time getting a perfectly dialed in tune from Steve.

As well, Steve is actually willing to discuss what he is doing to your car. Not to say that he's going to tell you every last detail, but at least he'll tell you in a general sense what he's modifying.

When I was looking into changing from my Unitronics 3.0 V6 tune to the JHM 3.0 V6 tune, I wanted to get a very general sense of what map areas were changed in order to justify the $700 (including shipping and exchange rate). Note, I wasn't asking them how what they had done to those areas, just what the general map areas were. However, JHM wouldn't even tell me if calibrations like the cam phasing had been changed at all (the answer was "sorry, it's proprietary information").

Now, to be fair, I will conceed that JHM DOES have one of the better 4.2 V8 tunes out there.

I can say this because before he passed away, I was informed by a very, very reliable source (the late Daz, aka DDillinger (God rest his soul)) what JHM did to make their tune, and while I do give them credit for taking a bit of a different approach with respect to some of their calibrations in terms of altering some map areas that are not commonly changed my most OTS tuners, it doesn't change the fact that the JHM tune is not a magic bullet....

As well, in my opinion, they also don't offer the flexibility in terms of custom solutions that Fabspeed does, nor are they as forthcoming with sharing their information with the customer to help the client make a well informed decision as to their purchase.

Anyway, jut my 2c, I know there are many who will disagree with me, but that's the point of a forum, to discuss viewpoints and debate information right?

[Jake@JHM]

As far as I know, there is no TCU tune available for the pre 2006 tiptronics.

The 2006+ use a CAN-BUS system which allows the tuning to be done through the OBD port, whereas the pre 2006 cars can only be tuned if the mechatronic unit is removed.

Also, in terms of a good ECU tune, call Steve at Fabspeed. Steve tunes Maclarens, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc... every day for a living and he's EXTREMELY good at what he does. Steve was the one who did the base tuning on my car a way while back (I've since developed my own tune), but Steve-o gave me the information and know-how to get me started.

The take away point it is this: Unlike JHM, who contracted out their tuning to another individual (Count Vaughn IIRC) Steve does his all his own calibrations from so he can work with you to set your car up however you want it.

Not to say that JHM can't modify their tune at all, but I would suspect that you'd have a way easier time getting a perfectly dialed in tune from Steve.

As well, Steve is actually willing to discuss what he is doing to your car. Not to say that he's going to tell you every last detail, but at least he'll tell you in a general sense what he's modifying.

When I was looking into changing from my Unitronics 3.0 V6 tune to the JHM 3.0 V6 tune, I wanted to get a general sense of what map areas were changed in order to justify the $700 (including shipping and exchange rate) and JHM wouldn't even tell me if calibrations like the cam phasing had been changed at all (the answer was "sorry, it's proprietary information").

Now, to be fair, JHM does have a decent 4.2 V8 tune. However, it's not a magic bullet....

They also don't offer the flexibility in terms of custom solutions that Fabspeed does, nor are they as forthcoming with their information.

Anyway, jut my 2c

You make it seem like we don't have contact with our calibrator or make special calibration adjustments for specific scenarios.. We are in touch with our calibrator who is apart of our team every single day. Since you have no clue on how any of this works here at JHM, I would suggest you stop speaking on this subject. Every legit company has a Calibration Team, and so do we.

There is no need for a "custom" tune on a car that has off the shelf parts. Our software is already highly optimized for bolt-ons. If you feel that we are wrong, why hasn't your magical tuner made a B6-B7 S4 that is faster than ours?

Of course we are not going to give out information on what we are doing calibration wise so a "self tuner" can try and mimic what we do. We are professionals, so people come to us for our expertise and purchase our software because it's the best software available.

I have notice that in a lot of your posts your are talking up this shop, and in the same breath talking JHM down. Sort of suspicious..

[R&Cs4]

If you feel that we are wrong, why hasn't your magical tuner made a B6-B7 S4 that is faster than ours?

This.

[Das Audi]

You make it seem like we don't have contact with our calibrator or make special calibration adjustments for specific scenarios.. We are in touch with our calibrator who is apart of our team every single day. Since you have no clue on how any of this works here at JHM, I would suggest you stop speaking on this subject. Every legit company has a Calibration Team, and so do we.

There is no need for a "custom" tune on a car that has off the shelf parts. Our software is already highly optimized for bolt-ons. If you feel that we are wrong, why hasn't your magical tuner made a B6-B7 S4 that is faster than ours?

Of course we are not going to give out information on what we are doing calibration wise so a "self tuner" can try and mimic what we do. We are professionals, so people come to us for our expertise and purchase our software because it's the best software available.

I have notice that in a lot of your posts your are talking up this shop, and in the same breath talking JHM down. Sort of suspicious..

Nice one Jake...................

[ZimbutheMonkey]

You make it seem like we don't have contact with our calibrator or make special calibration adjustments for specific scenarios.. We are in touch with our calibrator who is apart of our team every single day. Since you have no clue on how any of this works here at JHM, I would suggest you stop speaking on this subject. Every legit company has a Calibration Team, and so do we.

There is no need for a "custom" tune on a car that has off the shelf parts. Our software is already highly optimized for bolt-ons. If you feel that we are wrong, why hasn't your magical tuner made a B6-B7 S4 that is faster than ours?

Of course we are not going to give out information on what we are doing calibration wise so a "self tuner" can try and mimic what we do. We are professionals, so people come to us for our expertise and purchase our software because it's the best software available.

I have notice that in a lot of your posts your are talking up this shop, and in the same breath talking JHM down. Sort of suspicious..

Jake, with all due respect, cut the BS. When a client is being asked to part with $700 of his hard earned cash, it's not unreasonable at all for that client to be ENTITLED (note that I emphasize that word) to get some sort of information as to what you have done with your calibration to set it apart from the other available tunes on the market.

When I was making inquiries about your V6 tune, it was long before I had ever tried to make my own file. So trust me, I wasn't trying to get any of your 'secrets' in order to replicate it for my self.

My inquiries were made at an extremely general level. In particular, I recall wanting to know if you guys had even touched the cam phasing maps, which I now know from the literally hundreds of revisions and gigabytes of datalogging I have since done is a crucial requirement to making better power on a naturally aspirated engine, especially one which has had the cats removed and therefore has vastly changed the resonance properties of the engine system as a whole.

Even if I was trying to make my own tune, giving me a simple yes or no answer would not have given me ANY sort of advantage in terms of making my own file, nor would it have compromised your 'confidential information'.

What your response to me was "oh trust me, it'll be worth the $700 (that price includes the shippng and exchange rate that I would have had to pay). When I asked you if your confidence was such that you would offer me a refund if I wasn't satisfied that it was $700 better than the tune I had, you declined to do so. So I ask you Jake, were you really that confident in your product? I'll also ask you, do you think that it's reasonable to expect a client to spend $700 based simply on your word alone without any willingness on your part to back up your claims on how satisfied I would be?

Fact is, you were sure willing to talk a good game when it came to trying to sell me your product, but when push came to shove and I asked you if you were willing to put your money where your mouth was so to speak (in terms of offering a refund if I didn't think it was $700 better than what I already had), suddenly your confidence level in how happy I would be with your V6 tune changed on a dime. Care to explain why that was?

So since I have 'no clue how things work at JHM; why don't you answer me this: Does your calibrator work at your offices? Is he there on a daily basis? If not, why is he not a full time staff member if he is so integral to your operations.

Also, when you did your development work on your V8 and V6 files, did you do so with a full DAMOS file, which would have given you access to all the information necessary to optimize things 100%. I'm going to guess that you didn't as I've never ran into a definition file for either the 3.0 or 4.2 engines. That's why I spent literally thousands of hours developing my own definition files from scratch. Yeah, you heard me, I've actually made very, very detailed definition files for both of these engines on my little 'ol lonesome.

My point when I bring this up is that Fabspeed actually does have a calibrator that works at their office every day, tuning vehicles like Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens and the like. He is there and available at any time should a client need a change to a file, rather than Fabspeed simply being 'in contact with him'. That's a pretty important difference in my opinion.

And finally, you'll note that on MANY occasions, I have mentioned that the JHM tune is a relatively good tune. (funny how you choose to ignore that though). My point that I AM making however, is that JHM is content to allow certain forum members to bash any other tune that isn't a JHM tune, as if somehow JHM has found some sort of hidden map areas that allow JHM to make more power than any other tuner could hope to make with another file. The simple fact however is this: you have not found any magic map areas that other tuners don't have access to or make use of.

Out of respect, I haven't discussed the particulars of how your file is calibrated, but if you want to, I'll be perfectly happy to so so if you will allow the discussion to remain posted on the forum as a matter of public record, so what do you say... Hmm???

Finally, with respect to why my tuner hasn't made a faster S4 than yours, well my understanding is, he actually did at one point post up a dyno which suggested that his results were just as good or better. However, since he wasn't a paid advertiser, he was forced to remove his results. If you would be willing to allow it, I could ask him to post up some of his results and we can have a look at them. What would you say to that Jake?

Finally, I noticed something in a Motorgeek post a while back where they had done baseline dynos of your development car and noted that The B6 S4 dyno is actually from JHM's car back when it was stock. It also put down the most power out of all of the 6-MT V8 S4s we've seen" Tell me Jake, is it possible that you guys cherry picked an exceptionally strong "Wednesday" built car to use as your development car and then represented the results that you obtained as being representative of the results your tune would give to an average S4 that may not have 110% perfect compression numbers?

If it were the case that your tuning packages were as strong as you claim, wouldn't it stand to reason that anyone who bolted a set of JHM headers, LW flywheel, intake manifold, ECU tune, etc... to their car should be getting exactly the same results at the track that the fanboys trot out every time someone questions JHM's tuning package???

[Jake@JHM]

Jake, with all due respect, cut the BS. When a client is being asked to part with $700 of his hard earned cash, it's not unreasonable at all for that client to be ENTITLED (note that I emphasize that word) to get some sort of information as to what you have done with your calibration to set it apart from the other available tunes on the market.

We provided the fastest 1/4m numbers.

When I was making inquiries about your V6 tune, it was long before I had ever tried to make my own file. So trust me, I wasn't trying to get any of your 'secrets' in order to replicate it for my self.

My inquiries were made at an extremely general level. In particular, I recall wanting to know if you guys had even touched the cam phasing maps, which I now know from the literally hundreds of revisions and gigabytes of datalogging I have since done is a crucial requirement to making better power on a naturally aspirated engine, especially one which has had the cats removed and therefore has vastly changed the resonance properties of the engine system as a whole.

Even if I was trying to make my own tune, giving me a simple yes or no answer would not have given me ANY sort of advantage in terms of making my own file, nor would it have compromised your 'confidential information'.


What your response to me was "oh trust me, it'll be worth the $700 (that price includes the shippng and exchange rate that I would have had to pay). When I asked you if your confidence was such that you would offer me a refund if I wasn't satisfied that it was $700 better than the tune I had, you declined to do so. So I ask you Jake, were you really that confident in your product? I'll also ask you, do you think that it's reasonable to expect a client to spend $700 based simply on your word alone without any willingness on your part to back up your claims on how satisfied I would be?

It wasn't because we were speaking to you in general. Do you know how many self tuners call us wanting to know what we do so they can try and do it themselves? Even if we tell them what maps we modify, that gives them a HEADSTART so the don't have to figure out what maps the should or shouldn't modify. At the time, we had a strict no refund policy for ALL items. This has since changed as we have grown. However, we still to this day have not had one person want to return our 3.0 Software.


So since I have 'no clue how things work at JHM; why don't you answer me this: Does your calibrator work at your offices? Is he there on a daily basis? If not, why is he not a full time staff member if he is so integral to your operations.

He doesn't need to be here on site to do our daily (especially with how modern communications work). He is not the only person in our calibration team and there is a lot more that goes into our tuning than you think. We don't do a couple dyno pull, press some buttons and call it good. We always test our software in multiple types extreme conditions and that takes lots of time that "custom" shops will NOT provide.

My point when I bring this up is that Fabspeed actually does have a calibrator that works at their office every day, tuning vehicles like Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens and the like. He is there and available at any time should a client need a change to a file, rather than Fabspeed simply being 'in contact with him'. That's a pretty important difference in my opinion.

And finally, you'll note that on MANY occasions, I have mentioned that the JHM tune is a relatively good tune. (funny how you choose to ignore that though). My point that I AM making however, is that JHM is content to allow certain forum members to bash any other tune that isn't a JHM tune, as if somehow JHM has found some sort of hidden map areas that allow JHM to make more power than any other tuner could hope to make with another file. The simple fact however is this: you have not found any magic map areas that other tuners don't have access to or make use of.

Yes you do say that. But you strategically say this so aren't "bashing" so how about YOU cut the BS? It's not hard to see through the games you are playing. We are also WELL aware of that "file" your homie decided to crack. By all means, learn what you want from that one.

Out of respect, I haven't discussed the particulars of how your file is calibrated, but if you want to, I'll be perfectly happy to so so if you will allow the discussion to remain posted on the forum as a matter of public record, so what do you say... Hmm???

Finally, with respect to why my tuner hasn't made a faster S4 than yours, well my understanding is, he actually did at one point post up a dyno which suggested that his results were just as good or better. However, since he wasn't a paid advertiser, he was forced to remove his results. If you would be willing to allow it, I could ask him to post up some of his results and we can have a look at them. What would you say to that Jake?

To be honest, we really don't care what your "dyno"suggested. It means NOTHING. So post all the dyno comparison results you want. Only the people who don't know better will think something of it. Take it to the track and lets see some real world performance and then we can talk because performance in the real world, is the only thing that matters. Unless people don't care about having a car that is actually fast, and just care about have a cool piece of paper with some fancy numbers on it.


Finally, I noticed something in a Motorgeek post a while back where they had done baseline dynos of your development car and noted that The B6 S4 dyno is actually from JHM's car back when it was stock. It also put down the most power out of all of the 6-MT V8 S4s we've seen" Tell me Jake, is it possible that you guys cherry picked an exceptionally strong "Wednesday" built car to use as your development car and then represented the results that you obtained as being representative of the results your tune would give to an average S4 that may not have 110% perfect compression numbers?

That's funny, because that car was purchased at auction with body damage for cheap as a development car. That also proves my point about dynos, they don't mean anything. But if you choose to believe we hand picked a B6 S4 that was far superior from the factory to boost our tuning products then well... that's the best conspiracy theory about us I have heard. I love it! That gave me a good laugh this morning so I appreciate the good start to a Thursday.


If it were the case that your tuning packages were as strong as you claim, wouldn't it stand to reason that anyone who bolted a set of JHM headers, LW flywheel, intake manifold, ECU tune, etc... to their car should be getting exactly the same results at the track that the fanboys trot out every time someone questions JHM's tuning package???

We have had a supercharged S4 customer and a couple of bolt on RS4 customers beat our records. SOOO..... yes, given that they know how to drive well and choose to go to the track in sometime other than the blazing hot summer..

See bold.


I would like to note that I have never heard of this shop (besides from you) so I have nothing against them. The only thing I have a problem with is how you push them up by trying pushing us down.

If you love what they have provided you, then that is awesome. We are happy that you are happy.

I am also done with this conversation now, so I won't be replying to this thread anymore. If you choose to respond I will likely not see it.

Jake

[BCsniper]

To Zimbu-The-monkeyman:
The sheer idiocy of your statement is so bad, I applaud you. How out of touch and clueless you are is actually hilarious.

[FastEddie]

To Zimbu-The-monkeyman:
The sheer idiocy of your statement is so bad, I applaud you. How out of touch and clueless you are is actually hilarious.

LMFAO. love that line and that movie.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

See bold.


I would like to note that I have never heard of this shop (besides from you) so I have nothing against them. The only thing I have a problem with is how you push them up by trying pushing us down.

If you love what they have provided you, then that is awesome. We are happy that you are happy.

I am also done with this conversation now, so I won't be replying to this thread anymore. If you choose to respond I will likely not see it.

Jake

That suits me perfectly fine. We've both said what we wanted to say and I don't think that there's anything more to be gained by furthering this exchange between us.

Cheers.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

To Zimbu-The-monkeyman:
The sheer idiocy of your statement is so bad, I applaud you. How out of touch and clueless you are is actually hilarious.

Sorry, could you refresh my memory on who you you are, what sort of useful information (if any) you've contributed to this forum over the years? and more to the point, please explain to me why your opinion should carry any weight whatsoever? (I ask the last question because your response was so utterly lazy and pointless that it didn't even address anything that I actually wrote).

PS: Based on the quality of your response and your choice of video, I'd ask you if you're familiar with the concept of irony, but I think it's a pretty safe bet you aren't familiar with that concept ...

[p3u]

Zimbu got PWNED!!! Hahaha!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Zimbu got PWNED!!! Hahaha!

lmafo, riiiight, you just go ahead and believe that....

Never mind this little PM sent to me from another member who read my reply to Jake

Wow, you had some awesome points. well written and great points man, kudo's on you, awesome job an doing your own tune as well, I want to be able to do that one day.

Cheers!

But I guess this member just probably doesn't understand the finer points of PWNING like you and BC Sniper do

That, or maybe all that Kool-Aid that you guys drink just makes things seem funnier in your own heads.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

To Zimbu-The-monkeyman:
The sheer idiocy of your statement is so bad, I applaud you. How out of touch and clueless you are is actually hilarious.
]

Oh, and BTW if you really know as much as you LIKE to think that you know about tuning, here's a little challenge for you (only if you think you're up to it of course...)

Why don't you go onto Nefmoto.com, quote mine and Jake's conversation, and explain to guys like, Tony, K0mpressed, Smelly240, Daz (if he were still with us (God rest his soul) and any number of the other guys on that site who know more about tuning than you could ever hope to know in your entire life exactly why my response is (as you say) "so out of touch and clueless as to be hilarious".

Go ahead and explain to them why everything I said is so laughably clueless, AND, then respond to their comments in full You think you can do that for me, hmm....????

(or do you have enough sense to admit right now that you'd be completely called out and PWNED twelve ways from Sunday...)

NOTE*** one more thing, this honestly isn't a dig at you Jake. I meant what I said when I consider the matter between us as being concluded. This little challenge is aimed squarely at BC Sniper seeing as he's so confident in his commenets.


So what do you say buddy? You up for it? you can even bring p3u along for moral support if you think you'll need it (actually, let's not kid ourselves, I think both you and I already know the answer to that question don't we... *smirks*)

[BCsniper]

When did I say anything about how much more knowledgeable I am than everybody else? I try not to get myself into useless pissing matches like that.

And I have no reason to prove myself to you. I have been in this forum giving advice and opinions for over 5 years. I have seen a lot of people, products, and companies come and go. I have also done quite a bit to help people that I didn't know, like spending a day ripping parts off an old audi of mine to go help a stranded AZ'er who broke down close by while out of town. And driving to ATL to loan tools and help wrench with a guy who'd never replaced a clutch before.

Honestly the burden of proof is really on you to show (with real world performance) that your tuning is as good/better than another companies. And if you can, more power to you.

[FastEddie]

When did I say anything about how much more knowledgeable I am than everybody else? I try not to get myself into useless pissing matches like that.

And I have no reason to prove myself to you. I have been in this forum giving advice and opinions for over 5 years. I have seen a lot of people, products, and companies come and go. I have also done quite a bit to help people that I didn't know, like spending a day ripping parts off an old audi of mine to go help a stranded AZ'er who broke down close by while out of town. And driving to ATL to loan tools and help wrench with a guy who'd never replaced a clutch before.

Honestly the burden of proof is really on you to show (with real world performance) that your tuning is as good/better than another companies. And if you can, more power to you.

I do believe he has a point. BCSniper has been here and helped quite a few people out. You on the other hand, come in here, attack a forum sponsor and call them claiming your so called tune is better than theirs while showing ZERO data. If someone wants to PM you how awesome and cool you are at tuning while you literally show zero data of performance gains then let the sheep follow the blind.

You tend to try and give useful information, your posts are always very lengthy but at the end of the day every time i read something from you it seems like you try to hide an agenda against JHM. You always talk about how their tune is nothing special and anyone could do it. However they still are the only company providing a solid tune tested and proven that works on our platform. if it was damn easy then why havent GIAC and APR made a tune worth a damn for out platform. They havent. But now we are to believe Fabspeed has the special secret sauce. Wheres the data? And no not BS dyno graphs.

Want to gain some credibility? Show some real world results of your tune running on the track and then show us.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

When did I say anything about how much more knowledgeable I am than everybody else? I try not to get myself into useless pissing matches like that.

And I have no reason to prove myself to you. I have been in this forum giving advice and opinions for over 5 years. I have seen a lot of people, products, and companies come and go. I have also done quite a bit to help people that I didn't know, like spending a day ripping parts off an old audi of mine to go help a stranded AZ'er who broke down close by while out of town. And driving to ATL to loan tools and help wrench with a guy who'd never replaced a clutch before.

Honestly the burden of proof is really on you to show (with real world performance) that your tuning is as good/better than another companies. And if you can, more power to you.

Well, I would say that a statement such as The sheer idiocy of your statement is so bad, I applaud you. How out of touch and clueless you are is actually hilarious is a pretty clear implication that you feel that you know something more than I do, wouldn't you say?

I would also submit that if you really do "try not to get myself into useless pissing matches" that you wouldn't (or ought not to) post statements like you did back in post #22 wouldn't you agree?

As well, much like yourself, I have been on this form for 5 years, offering advice and assistance to countless members. Further, I've attempted whenever I can to make my posts informative and to provide data to back up what I claim. If you don't believe me, feel free to look up my post history. Go see how many DIY guides I've taken the time to write up (i.e. like how to rebuild a set of valve bodies on a 5HP-19 transmission) just to name one off the top of my head.

My point is, if you truly don't want to start pissing matches, then I respectfully suggest that you may want to reconsider making posts like you did in post #22.

NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART OF MY POST: That said, I AM willing to believe that you're on this forum to assist other members (same as I am) and I'm willing to go on record here to bury the hatchet, offer the proverbial handshake and say "let's let bygones be bygones" I don't think that either of us (or anyone else for that matter) has anything more to gain by continuing this bickering.

What do you say? Ball's in your court man, are we cool?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I do believe he has a point. BCSniper has been here and helped quite a few people out. You on the other hand, come in here, attack a forum sponsor and call them claiming your so called tune is better than theirs while showing ZERO data. If someone wants to PM you how awesome and cool you are at tuning while you literally show zero data of performance gains then let the sheep follow the blind.

You tend to try and give useful information, your posts are always very lengthy but at the end of the day every time i read something from you it seems like you try to hide an agenda against JHM. You always talk about how their tune is nothing special and anyone could do it. However they still are the only company providing a solid tune tested and proven that works on our platform. if it was damn easy then why havent GIAC and APR made a tune worth a damn for out platform. They havent. But now we are to believe Fabspeed has the special secret sauce. Wheres the data? And no not BS dyno graphs.

Want to gain some credibility? Show some real world results of your tune running on the track and then show us.

With respect to your post, I'll begin by honestly thanking you for mentioning that I tend to try and give useful information; and I really do mean that (I'm not just glossing that over before saying "but blah blah blah.. here's where you're wrong").

To address your question as to why companies like GIAC and APR haven't made a tune that makes solid gains, I can think of two reasons:

1) this is a 10 year old platform with a very limited number of engines. These engines are naturally aspirated and you're not going to get a whole lot of gains from a tune alone unless you have supporting bolt ons. ***what is important to note from this statement is this:*** the surest way to make power on these engines is with ignition timing, and lots of it If you don't remove the pre-cats, and install a free flowing exhaust, the cylinder temps increase very quickly and the ECU will pull any timing that you try to give it.

Why do you think that JHM lists this on their site:

The minimum required for your exhaust system is as follows:
-Downpipes: Piggie downpipes (which we sell) are good. Aftermarket downpipes like the Fast Intentions 2.5 inch downpipes we sell are better. Our JHM Longtube Headers are the best setup.
-Cat-back: You must have a high-flow, dual 2.5 inch cat-back with an X-pipe.

JHM themselves know that in order for their tune to actually work, you need to remove the exhaust restrictions. I know this may seem like common sense, but the point I'm making here is that unless you remove the pre-cats, the effectiveness of the JHM tune is substantially decreased as their tune relies heavily on ignition timing to make it's gains.

2) With new products always on the horizon, there is a limited window of time that any tuning company will devote resources to developing files. At the time these tunes were being made by companies such as APR and GIAC, there weren't nearly as many affordable bolt on parts and very few S4 owners had any interest in doing any serious modifications to their cars.

What this meant, was that at the time where companies like GIAC and APR were willing to spend the development time to make their files, many of the cars that were being flashed with these "useless" tunes from companies like GIAC and APR most likely had bone stock exhausts, or poorly made aftermarket ones. I would be willing to bet that if these stock hardware cars had been flashed with a JHM file, the difference between the JHM file and the GIAC/APR file would have been minimal.

What JHM DID do, was stick with marketing their file as bolt on options became more available and affordable. Once it became more common for S4 owners to start uncorking the exhaust, this allowed the JHM file to start making some notable gains.

Now, admittedly, sticking with marketing their files for the V8 and V6 N/A engines over a 10 year period was a good marketing decision on JHM's part, as other companies like GIAC and APR chose to devote their resources to other newer platforms (mainly turbocharged ones) that gave better gains with an ecu flash alone, even on stock hardware.

My point however, is this: The fact that the JHM file has provided the better gains vis a vis other companies like GIAC and APR wasn't entirely a function of JHM finding some special map area, it was largely a function of JHM aggressively marketing the bolt on parts (i.e. headers and downpipes) over the last 5-7 years which allowed their file to work as it was designed (again, mainly making power by adding lots of timing).

Anyway, the take away point is this: JHM was admittedly clever in how they decided to pursue their marketing strategy for this platform, namely, they decided to play the long game and aggressively introduced bolt on parts for the S4 and made it more common for S4 owners to modify the hardware on their cars. BUT, the success of the JHM file was largely dependent on the adoption of supporting bolt on mods, it was NOT, however, a function of some sort of 'special sauce' programming that only JHM knew about.

I will introduce one qualification to that last statement and note that there were some areas (specifically ones related to the knock sensor functions) that were unique to the JHM file (and I give them credit for at least thinking outside the box on that one). However, outside of that, the other map areas that are re-calibrated on the JHM file are otherwise similar to what would be re-calibrated by most other tuners.

I have to run and get some subpoenas sworn at the courthouse before it closes. but I'll finish this later

***before anyone else comments on this, wait for me to finish what I have to say, thanks***

[p3u]

Zimbu is like the Mario for S4 forums.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Zimbu is like the Mario for S4 forums.

Uhhh, sure, whatever you say there Pepsi....

[chain_slappins4]

What I don't understand ( actually i do, but ill keep those comments to myself for now ) why some people will bash another person for voicing his opinion, whether it is for or against something... I've read this thread from the beginning, and several times Zimbu said that the JHM tune was one of the better ones out there, but that somehow was "overlooked" .... even if he said the JHM tune was crap, which he didn't that still doesn't warrant getting attacked by the JHM police and their cronies.

I for one am not a tuner by any means, I've messed around a bit with my ecu, but that was with lemmiwinks, and I've made a copy of my tune incase my ecu decides it wants to go on Permanent vacation...but that's about the extent of what I can do.. I've been reading up on tuning and what's involved and it makes my head hurt lol....

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

Yah know something... some of the replies reminds me of a cartoon.. the one where the little dog jumping around the bulldog, hey spike hey spike..... you want to beat up a cat... hey spike..... spike.....

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!