HELP!! What Is The DEAL With My Offset!!!?

[JWhite1089]

Guys. For real. I've done hours of research here. I cannot get a direct answer. My front AND rear offset is not even, and both front and rear wheels are pushed to the driver side. I've seen people say "This is just how our cars are" but have seen no facts to back that up. I've seen people say my subframe is misaligned, and shifted to the left. I've loosened the rear and pushed it as much as I can, but only got about 1/16" of play, and I'm still about 1/16" off. I checked the front since there are alignment pins that you can use to shift the subframe from one side to the other, and it is already dead center.

MY CAMBER IS EVEN AND ALL MY WHEELS HAVE THE SAME OFFSET. This seems to be the #1 argument against this, but I assure you, my car was just recently aligned and all 4 corners are set to factory spec camber and toe. So.... What is going on!?

This is driving me in sane. I'm OCD when it comes to my car. I didn't notice this until after I installed coilovers and spacers on my OEM S-Line wheels, but I imagine it was like this before that and I simply didn't notice because of the wheel gap and inset wheels. My car is 2008 A4 Quattro S-Line 2.0T. My new wheels are Miro 111 19x8.5 et32, and the wheels are flush on the driver side, and tucked on the passenger side. It is visible to the eye. In front, the driver side wheel actually pokes a bit, and passenger wheel is nearly flush, but slightly tucked.

Someone please at least give me an explanation. I've seen tons of guys lowered and bagged, and in the "stance" world there's no way these guys would let their cars have uneven offsets. I'm about to say screw it and buy spacers for just the passenger side, but I want to FIX it, if that's even possible.

Driver rear: Flush


Passenger rear: Tucked


Driver front: Slight poke


Passenger front: Tucked

[fhh02a]

Are the axles shorter on tht side?

Just thinking outloud

[JWhite1089]

Are the axles shorter on tht side?

Just thinking outloud

I mean if they were they would have come that way from the factory, otherwise they wouldn't reach the hub.. But that's part of my question.. Are our cars like this from Audi? I find that hard to believe..


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[aluthman]

The hub is more or less in a fixed location. Axle length would have no effect on this.

[JWhite1089]

The hub is more or less in a fixed location. Axle length would have no effect on this.

Well I was just going off of his suggestion.. Shorter axle would move the fixed location of the hub inward on that side so that it could reach it. But yes it seems highly unlikely.


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[jgride]

Wow, if I didn't see pictures I'd say you were cookoo! I wonder if a body off alignment would help. Where they loosen the body from the frame, perform the alignment then reattach the body. Just a thought!

[JWhite1089]

Wow, if I didn't see pictures I'd say you were cookoo! I wonder if a body off alignment would help. Where they loosen the body from the frame, perform the alignment then reattach the body. Just a thought!

That sounds like thousands of dollars worth of labor lol... I've called the dealership, body shops, alignment shops, and chassis shops and they all seem clueless.


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[jakeoboy67]

get your alignment checked professionally first

the only thing that would cause something like this(assuming your alignment is good) would be a shifted subframe

it's kinda unrelated, but I've seen this happen a lot with mk2-mk4 volkswagen rear beams, where the whole rear suspension is shifted on one side.(from the factory?)
my mk2 jetta's rear wheels definitely poke out more on the passenger side.

[drmonkey]

Wow, if I didn't see pictures I'd say you were cookoo! I wonder if a body off alignment would help. Where they loosen the body from the frame, perform the alignment then reattach the body. Just a thought!

I'm pretty sure these cars are unibody...so there would be no frame to adjust.

Honestly, it looks like your driver rear is poking out too...

[JWhite1089]

get your alignment checked professionally first

the only thing that would cause something like this(assuming your alignment is good) would be a shifted subframe

it's kinda unrelated, but I've seen this happen a lot with mk2-mk4 volkswagen rear beams, where the whole rear suspension is shifted on one side.(from the factory?)
my mk2 jetta's rear wheels definitely poke out more on the passenger side.

What do you mean exactly by "professionally"? It's been aligned 2 times since I lowered my car in February, both by Firestone with the new machine, and both times I got print outs showing all 4 corners set to factory spec camber and toe and even on both sides, and both ending with this same result. I'm beginning to think my car was just an Audi stepchild on the chassis assembly line.

And also, it would be different if it were only the rear, but it's also the front, just less extreme.


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[adam044]

I'd sell it. This would literally drive me crazy.

[texpoops]

Maybe a previous owner pulled the fenders on only one side?

[JWhite1089]

Maybe a previous owner pulled the fenders on only one side?

Only 1 PO on a lease and I think I'd be able to tell. I did look for that and they seem to be very similar.

I have to admit, carfax says no accidents but I can tell right rear fender has been re sprayed based on overspray in fuel door, and fuel door lock doesn't work. But that wouldn't explain the front being off as well, and I've seen multiple other people with this issue so I highly doubt anything is bent. It aligns perfectly fine, it's just the offset that isn't right.


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[Pat_McGroin]

Any chance you might be willing to pony up the dough and take it to an Audi dealership to have them do the alignment? Not saying that Firestone didn't know what they were doing and just gave you a print out(if thats even possible) but at least the cars manufacture would be doing the work and probably a better outcome. I don't take my car to the dealer for work but if its something that no other shop can fix then I would allow my wallet to take a hit and have the,"professionals" take care of it.

True story: I was at a shop once and overheard the manager tell one of the techs to redo the alignment on a customers car to where the steering wheel is dead center even if the alignment is off.

Perhaps that may help.

[JWhite1089]

Any chance you might be willing to pony up the dough and take it to an Audi dealership to have them do the alignment? Not saying that Firestone didn't know what they were doing and just gave you a print out(if thats even possible) but at least the cars manufacture would be doing the work and probably a better outcome. I don't take my car to the dealer for work but if its something that no other shop can fix then I would allow my wallet to take a hit and have the,"professionals" take care of it.

True story: I was at a shop once and overheard the manager tell one of the techs to redo the alignment on a customers car to where the steering wheel is dead center even if the alignment is off.

Perhaps that may help.

I completely understand what you mean, and I actually used to work at this Firestone so I know all the techs, but I actually did call the dealer and he basically said we won't touch the subframe. After thinking about it and how no one else wants to mess with it, I may just drive to the dealership and let them check it out in person instead of calling them. If nothing else, hopefully I can get a techs opinion on what to do.


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[Pat_McGroin]

I completely understand what you mean, and I actually used to work at this Firestone so I know all the techs, but I actually did call the dealer and he basically said we won't touch the subframe. After thinking about it and how no one else wants to mess with it, I may just drive to the dealership and let them check it out in person instead of calling them. If nothing else, hopefully I can get a techs opinion on what to do.


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Forsure man, keep us updated!

[The Flash]

just a thought make sure the offset on the wheels is the same
flip the wheels and see if it changes

[cwill401]

I bet those wheels are different offset and you have the two that are out further on the same side ..


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[JWhite1089]

Haha guys read the posts... The wheels are the same and I had the same issues with my stock wheels!!


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[AJacksA4]

Go to a motorsports shop. Someone who really knows suspensions. I was dealing with the same problem, mainly in the rear. Your subframes are just out of alignment. Its not a thousand dollar job or something you need to need to fret over.

You just need a lift and someone who knows what they're doing. They loosen the subframe bolts and use a pry bar to shift the subframe back to center. Its VERY hard if not impossible to do on your own. I got my rear subframe centered plus a custom alignment for $200.

[QuattriumMT6]

I'm dealing with the same issue with my rear as well. Right rear is flush/slightly poking and left rear is just barely tucked. I've had multiple shops align my vehicle and I've looked at the spec sheets. Wondering what could cause this. Sucks because all the good Motorsports shops are about an hour+ away from me :/

[RakkCity]

Now I'm scared to go look at both sides of my car in detail...

[yeoj112689]

Man I have a similar issue with my rears.... in that they are 255 wide on 10mm spacers and stick out about 10mm from the fender :P I love them though makes my car look fat as hell from behind. That ass. Anyway I don't have any real help I just am excited about my new wheels :P

[JWhite1089]

Go to a motorsports shop. Someone who really knows suspensions. I was dealing with the same problem, mainly in the rear. Your subframes are just out of alignment. Its not a thousand dollar job or something you need to need to fret over.

You just need a lift and someone who knows what they're doing. They loosen the subframe bolts and use a pry bar to shift the subframe back to center. Its VERY hard if not impossible to do on your own. I got my rear subframe centered plus a custom alignment for $200.

That sounds fine for the back, but the front has alignment holes and when they line up, it's centered. Well mine are perfectly aligned and it's still off center.. So it can't be the subframe, right?


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[JWhite1089]

I'm dealing with the same issue with my rear as well. Right rear is flush/slightly poking and left rear is just barely tucked. I've had multiple shops align my vehicle and I've looked at the spec sheets. Wondering what could cause this. Sucks because all the good Motorsports shops are about an hour+ away from me :/

This is the first time I've heard of it being shifted towards the passenger side. I don't understand why there is so much play in the subframe it just doesn't make sense. I'll have to find a Motorsport shop near me and see if there's anything they can do


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[LINDW4LL]

Every time I've seen this, it's been fixed with a subframe alignment.

Now, I just saw that you have adjustable control arms in front. Are they adjusted equally to each other? With stock front control arms, if your camber is equal side-to-side, that would infer that the subframe is perfectly centered. But when you add the adjustable arms, it adds another variable that could be hiding a shifted subframe. I'm not well-educated on the subframe alignment holes, but is it possible those aren't perfectly accurate?

[JWhite1089]

Just saw that you have adjustable control arms. Are they set equal to each other?

With stock front control arms, if your camber is equal side-to-side, that would infer that the subframe is perfectly centered. But when you add the adjustable arms, it adds another variable.

By set equal do you mean the same length?? They would have to be; the hub is a fixed location so any movement from the control arm would cause the camber to change. So the camber is equal, which means the control arms are the same length.


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[LINDW4LL]

By set equal do you mean the same length?? They would have to be; the hub is a fixed location so any movement from the control arm would cause the camber to change. So the camber is equal, which means the control arms are the same length.

Yes, that's what I mean. If the subframe is shifted (off-center), it would still be possible for the camber to be equal (on both wheels) if the adjustable control arms on one side were adjusted differently to compensate.

Seems logical to me. Feel free to point out if there's a flaw in my thinking..

[JWhite1089]

Yes, that's what I mean. If the subframe is shifted (off-center), it would still be possible for the camber to be equal (on both wheels) if the adjustable control arms on one side were adjusted differently to compensate.

Seems logical to me. Feel free to point out if there's a flaw in my thinking..

That does make sense of the subframe were off center. Which is what I had assumed the issue was until I got under there to check. There are holes in the bottom of the subframe used to align it, and they are lined up perfectly, which should mean that the subframe is perfectly centered.


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[Okedokey]

Take the wheel off and inspect. Particularly the tie rods and bushes.

[JWhite1089]

Take the wheel off and inspect. Particularly the tie rods and bushes.

I've checked everything man.. We're talking about maybe 1/16" off. Nothing is visible to the eye until you get the tire on there and look back and forth and left front and right front. Same with the back. With the wheel off its hard to tell anything is wrong without measuring.


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[drmonkey]

That does make sense of the subframe were off center. Which is what I had assumed the issue was until I got under there to check. There are holes in the bottom of the subframe used to align it, and they are lined up perfectly, which should mean that the subframe is perfectly centered.


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There will be manufacturing differences or defects in all models, that's why the subframe would be made adjustable to a certain degree. Maybe these "alignment holes" are off center by 1/16th of an inch as that would seem like it would be in an acceptable tolerance. I'd say, kick your subframes over a 1/16th and see how it looks afterwards.

[nizmosx]

My b5 s4 was like this, My b5 a4 was like this, My current b7 a4 is like this. I thought it was common knowledge that the driver side of audis pretty much always stuck out a few mm more than the passenger side. When you have the stock wheels on, its not that obvious but the second you try to put aggressive offset wheels and or spacers, you tend to notice how much more aggressive the driver side is that passenger side.

I wouldn't touch your sub-frame, unless you know that your sub-frame was removed or messed with in the past.

That said, i have never had an awesome alignment done at firestone. They are mediocre at best. Granted, im not sure an alignment would even fix this as im certain the cars come like this from audi.

[JWhite1089]

My b5 s4 was like this, My b5 a4 was like this, My current b7 a4 is like this. I thought it was common knowledge that the driver side of audis pretty much always stuck out a few mm more than the passenger side. When you have the stock wheels on, its not that obvious but the second you try to put aggressive offset wheels and or spacers, you tend to notice how much more aggressive the driver side is that passenger side.

I wouldn't touch your sub-frame, unless you know that your sub-frame was removed or messed with in the past.

That said, i have never had an awesome alignment done at firestone. They are mediocre at best. Granted, im not sure an alignment would even fix this as im certain the cars come like this from audi.

Lol well 95% of people on this thread seem to think theirs isn't like this so that's what worries me. But I guess a lot of them aren't lowered with spacers or aggressive offsets. What do these guys on air do for setting the body down onto the lip of the wheel!? Add spacers to one side and not the other? And what about the guy who posted earlier who's rear wheels are shifted to the passenger side, not driver side?

As far as the alignment goes.. I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences, but as I said, I used to work there and know the master tech that performs my alignments. I sit there with him as he does it and the paper doesn't lie at the end. Of everything is equal, in spec, and done correctly then I'm happy, and it would remove a bad alignment as a possible cause for this issue


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[o1turbo30v]

This is common, even B8's have this, its from when they aligned the engine/trans/driveshaft/rear differential assembly when it was being manufactured, very normal and nothing to worry about. Just leave it be.

[JWhite1089]

This is common, even B8's have this, its from when they aligned the engine/trans/driveshaft/rear differential assembly when it was being manufactured, very normal and nothing to worry about. Just leave it be.

Sounds very lazy and sloppy to me unless there is a REASON for it. When you're lowered and going for a uniform look, it's very difficult to just "leave it" when it's visibly noticeable. It looks like something is wrong.

So would there be a huge issue if I were to put let's say 2mm spacers on the passenger side and NOT on the driver side? I don't see how 2mm could cause any big issues...


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[drmonkey]

By the way, I run 19x9.5 on 5mm spacers so my wheels sit flush and I DON'T have this issue. My wheels sit flush on all sides...but...my subframe has been unbolted and adjusted before.

[nizmosx]

Its a lot more common than you think upon other platforms too. If it bothers you so much, you should just use a 2mm spacer on the uneven side. i dont believe that will mess with your quattro system. I personally just left it alone. It would bother me more to have a spacer on one side and not the other vs a 2mm gap difference.

Last thing i would suggest is to look at the height of your car. Sometimes if you're on coilovers and the cars height isnt perfect on all four corners, it may exaggerate the look of one side being tucked and the other not. I noticed the gaps the most on my s4 and i attributed this to the fact that my car was corner balanced with my weight in the driver side so the car height was uneven when parked until i sat in it.


Lastly there may be a lot of people that say their car doesn't have this issue. This could be true, but others like you and i who may be known to be MORE OCD can spot things like this more than others. For instance i pointed out this issue on my car after installing my work wheels (since they were more aggressive offset than stock) and that person said, heh i dont see it, or HEH i wouldnt have even noticed if you didnt mention anything.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...than-passenger


http://www.driftworks.com/forum/tech...ple-think.html


http://dodgeforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-...-out-more.html


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...han-other.html

[JWhite1089]

So I found a place local called Performance Chassis and they're willing to take a look at it, but he said its $100 due at time of drop off and warned me that the job could run up to $400 or $500. I hope that I have some support when I say this sounds sketchy to me. I'm going to tell them to take a look at it and let me know ahead of time, because everywhere I've seen guys doing this its maybe 1-2 hours worth of labor. At the end of the day, unless I'm missing something, with a lift this should be a simple loosen the subframe, shift with a pry bar, check camber, and repeat.


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[JWhite1089]

Its a lot more common than you think upon other platforms too. If it bothers you so much, you should just use a 2mm spacer on the uneven side. i dont believe that will mess with your quattro system. I personally just left it alone. It would bother me more to have a spacer on one side and not the other vs a 2mm gap difference.

Last thing i would suggest is to look at the height of your car. Sometimes if you're on coilovers and the cars height isnt perfect on all four corners, it may exaggerate the look of one side being tucked and the other not. I noticed the gaps the most on my s4 and i attributed this to the fact that my car was corner balanced with my weight in the driver side so the car height was uneven when parked until i sat in it.


Lastly there may be a lot of people that say their car doesn't have this issue. This could be true, but others like you and i who may be known to be MORE OCD can spot things like this more than others. For instance i pointed out this issue on my car after installing my work wheels (since they were more aggressive offset than stock) and that person said, heh i dont see it, or HEH i wouldnt have even noticed if you didnt mention anything.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...than-passenger


http://www.driftworks.com/forum/tech...ple-think.html


http://dodgeforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-...-out-more.html


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...han-other.html

I'll check these links at work tonight thanks a lot for the research. All I would say based on what you posted is that YES it would bother me to have spacers on one side and not the other, but it bothers me MORE the way that it is now lol. Basically, I want to have it fixed. If that is ridiculously expensive, or if it cannot be done, I will gladly add spacers to one side to avoid having it look the way it does now. My coilovers are the same height down to the mm on all 4 corners, going back to the OCD thing lol. I do think that the fact the subframe is not centered changes the height though. For instance, if the left side is the same thread height as the right on the coilover, the fact that the subframe is shifted (might) cause the car to sit slightly lower on the right side. Maybe?? Thanks again for taking the time to provide some insight though.

BY THE WAY: This is the case now that I think about it. After installing the coilovers and triple checking the thread height, I noticed that the car was not exactly the same height on both sides. It was off by maybe 1/16" or 1/8". This totally makes sense now.


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