Pump not working?

**cspcrx** · 07-29-2016 03:22 PM

My car is at the shop getting tuned and a pulley installed. They pulled the charger to do the pulley. They are now bleeding the charger and saying the pump is not working. I have never had an issue or code. Would I have gotten one? Any ideas? They say they have never seen one not work

**whiped** · 07-29-2016 03:44 PM

The pump is not on all the time.

I think it is on related to pressure and throttle %.

You can short the wires to get it to run @ 100%

let me see if I can dig up the thread where we were talking about it.

**cspcrx** · 07-29-2016 04:15 PM

Ok, thanks they said it is getting really hot, the super charger is

**whiped** · 07-29-2016 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Ok, thanks they said it is getting really hot, the super charger is

I wasn't able to dig up much other than

If the signal line to the pump is broken or if a short circuit
to positive occurs in the signal line, the pump will enter
an emergency mode delivering 100 % output. If a short
circuit to ground occurs on the signal line, the pump will
stop.

If you need a new pump you might as well update it at the same time.

Originally Posted by infinkc

Instead of trying to use the stock pump, why just not switch out to an aftermarket one and wire it as above but the green wire to 12v of the aftermarket pump.

Pump APR uses: Jabsco
https://www.amazon.com/Jabsco-50840-...=1&*entries*=0

Pump AMS uses: Varimax
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...x4AaApnz8P8HAQ

Pump AWE uses: Meziere'
http://www.jegs.com/i/Meziere/680/WP...rentProductId=

I believe the Varimax (AMS one) flows the best. This is the one I was going to go with in my setup.

**jran76** · 07-29-2016 04:36 PM

You would definitely see a code if the pump stopped working.

**cspcrx** · 07-29-2016 06:55 PM

Two dealers have said the same thing. The shop just keeps saying that when they open the bleed screws it's not squirting out like it normally does. It's at the dealer now. They, the dealer, said its not meant to run all the time and if there is an airpocket by the temp sensor it could cause it to not turn on. They are going to pressure bleed and check it. The dealer also said in addition to a light it would run very hot and that would cause a light.

I will report back on what they find. I am on the stock tune profile right now because they have me freaked out that there's a problem. Sucks to go stage 2 and drive around on the stock tune!

Trying to find any diagrams that show if there is a thermal sensor in the charger for the pump.

**Jflow23** · 07-29-2016 10:11 PM

RPMs need to be at 2k+ for pump to kick on...requires one person on throttle...another on bleeders.

**cspcrx** · 07-31-2016 07:25 AM

Thanks, also does anyone know where the sensor is for the temperature? Everything I have read says it has to see a certain amount of boost, which lines up with you 2k comment, and 122 def F. Where is this temperature sensor at?

Thanks all

**xpoweruk** · 07-31-2016 07:34 AM

The pump gets the reading from the MAP sensor I think.
The below shows a pic (not my car) of the cable (broken in the case of the pic)

If you find out the what colour wire does what could you let me know please :)

**beans912** · 07-31-2016 08:59 AM

Does that help?

**xpoweruk** · 07-31-2016 09:12 AM

Nice one @beans912

So the PWM signal will come via the Yellow/Blue wire then ?

**beans912** · 07-31-2016 09:34 AM

Yes. That diagram is from a 14, I'm not sure if they are different from year to year. Mines a 16 but there isn't a wiring diagrams for 16's yet on shopkey

**cspcrx** · 07-31-2016 09:58 AM

Yes it does, so it doesn't have its own sensor its getting the signal from the ecu to flip the relay. Pump is only two wires in this diagram. This is interesting because the shop, the did the work, said the pump as three wires but the illustration shows two. Curious if the preface lift, like my 2012, is different.

**beans912** · 07-31-2016 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Yes it does, so it doesn't have its own sensor its getting the signal from the ecu to flip the relay. Pump is only two wires in this diagram. This is interesting because the shop, the did the work, said the pump as three wires but the illustration shows two. Curious if the preface lift, like my 2012, is different.

The pump has 3. It's the one on the middle of the left side in the picture.

**Jflow23** · 07-31-2016 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by xpoweruk

Nice one @beans912

So the PWM signal will come via the Yellow/Blue wire then ?

Looks like it.

Is the trigger signal from the ECU 5v or 12v? That may be the key to wiring the pump to run continuously while the engine is running.

**cspcrx** · 07-31-2016 05:43 PM

I was looking at the wrong pump. Man there is a lot of them! Never realized it.

**xpoweruk** · 08-01-2016 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jflow23

Looks like it.

Is the trigger signal from the ECU 5v or 12v? That may be the key to wiring the pump to run continuously while the engine is running.

I'm not sure if 5v or not.

but

If the signal line to the pump is broken or if a short circuit to positive occurs in the signal line, the pump will enter an emergency mode delivering 100 % output

**xpoweruk** · 08-01-2016 04:24 AM

7

I though the pic may be of use to you cspsrx

**cspcrx** · 08-01-2016 09:51 AM

Very. So the pump actually sends info back to the ECU and has an internal sensor. Very interesting.

I am hoping to hear today from the dealership that has it. I am really hopeful there is nothing wrong. I am stuck between two shops. One that did the work says the pump is not working and two dealers say if it was not working I would get codes and overheating.

I am stuck in the middle with a huge question mark over my head not knowing if something is truly wrong with the car.

**S4'ed** · 08-01-2016 10:56 AM

Assuming you still have the factory intercooler coolant configuration (non-divorced cooling system), then you don't need to run the pump to bleed the intercooler. Just get the engine warm, and the normal system pressure build-up will force the air (and coolant) out of the bleeder screws.

**cspcrx** · 08-01-2016 12:26 PM

Yes intercooler system is stock right now, AMS Alpha arrives in the mail today!!!

That is what the shop that did the tune said they do. They run the car and open the bleed screws on the supercharger to bleed it. But, when they did this coolant did not come squiring out like they normally see. This is what let them to determine the pump was not working. They said they also put their hands on the pump and could feel it was not running.

This is what makes it so confusing. Dealers, two, say if this was the case I would have codes and other issues. I drove the car 45 minutes in 112 degree weather to the dealer after leaving the shop in bumper to bumper traffic and never had a single issue.

**xpoweruk** · 08-01-2016 12:31 PM

I take it you have VCDS ?? If so logging IAT's under load will soon tell you if you have an issue,also VCDS can tell you the duty cycle of the pump when logging

**cspcrx** · 08-01-2016 12:54 PM

Unfortunately I do not. On my list of things to buy.

**KnewJack** · 08-01-2016 02:27 PM

Question. Why did they remove the charger to do a Stage 2? Usually you just pull the bumper forward and not even all the way off? Was there some other issue?

**Lamprey** · 08-01-2016 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by KnewJack

Question. Why did they remove the charger to do a Stage 2? Usually you just pull the bumper forward and not even all the way off? Was there some other issue?

Some installers find it easier to pull the supercharger and put on the new pulley rather than put the front end in the service position.

**xpoweruk** · 08-01-2016 02:54 PM

That is a good question KnewJack

**cspcrx** · 08-01-2016 07:53 PM

Several do it that way, two locally told me that is the way they do it.

Turns out they, the tuning shop, was wrong. Dealer reports it works perfectly there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Feel so much better knowing nothing is wrong. Going out and switching the tune!!!
Part of my Alpha cooler showed up, well part of it. UPS left one box but wants a signature for the other, that makes sense????????

Don't think I will be going there to get it installed.

**14S4GWM** · 08-01-2016 08:13 PM

^ You can sign up for "my ups" and waive the sig online. It works great.

**cspcrx** · 08-01-2016 08:28 PM

Thanks

**DBFL** · 08-01-2016 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Several do it that way, two locally told me that is the way they do it.

Turns out they, the tuning shop, was wrong. Dealer reports it works perfectly there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Feel so much better knowing nothing is wrong. Going out and switching the tune!!!
Part of my Alpha cooler showed up, well part of it. UPS left one box but wants a signature for the other, that makes sense????????

Don't think I will be going there to get it installed.

Well at least it's not me that UPS screws things up for. Or maybe they just don't like AMS.
I'f I were you I'd find a different shop to install the Alpha cooler. It is a somewhat lengthy install and it's a very tight fit - at least it is on a B8.5.

**cspcrx** · 08-02-2016 08:56 AM

Thanks. Have one that I am looking at now and a lead on another.

Just do not understand why they would leave the box with the pump and tank but not the one with the cooler and hoses.

**DBFL** · 08-02-2016 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Thanks. Have one that I am looking at now and a lead on another.

Just do not understand why they would leave the box with the pump and tank but not the one with the cooler and hoses.

It makes no sense. For me, they held the box with the heat exchanger at the hub for me to pick up. But they put the box with the pump and reservoir on a truck for delivery. They were going to let me leave with the box without signing until reminding them. Then after I tracked down the driver with the second box he told me I didn't need to sign for the second box. Makes no sense at all. This is why I use fedex whenever possible.

**cspcrx** · 08-02-2016 11:36 AM

Most be something AMS is doing. But its the exact some for my shipment as well. Box with pump and reservoir were sitting on the porch and a note in the door. They are giving my the option to sign the little note so they will leave it. I hope they do that, don't want to drive down to pick it up.

I agree, it makes no sense at all.

**SwankP3RF3ct10n** · 08-02-2016 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Several do it that way, two locally told me that is the way they do it.

Turns out they, the tuning shop, was wrong. Dealer reports it works perfectly there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Feel so much better knowing nothing is wrong. Going out and switching the tune!!!
Part of my Alpha cooler showed up, well part of it. UPS left one box but wants a signature for the other, that makes sense????????

Don't think I will be going there to get it installed.

Probably the best decision you could possibly make.

**DBFL** · 08-02-2016 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Most be something AMS is doing. But its the exact some for my shipment as well. Box with pump and reservoir were sitting on the porch and a note in the door. They are giving my the option to sign the little note so they will leave it. I hope they do that, don't want to drive down to pick it up.

I agree, it makes no sense at all.

It seems to be a UPS issue. The labels were marked as box 1/2 and 2/2. When tracking it, it showed both packages when I put in only one of the tracking numbers. I've had this issue with them before. That's why I usually have them hold my stuff at the hub if I need it quickly. But the hub is only 15 minutes from my house.

Did you find a shop to do the install? You are going to really like this system. I drove the car really hard the other day and IAT didn't go over 97 degrees. And it was 94 outside. I'm taking it to the track this weekend so we'll really know how well it works then.

**cspcrx** · 08-02-2016 07:53 PM

Yes talked to them today. I did not get the tool so they were looking to see if they have something that will do the same thing. Now that I am Stage2 I really need it with this damn heat in Phoenix.

Probably going to schedule it tomorrow.

**DBFL** · 08-02-2016 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by cspcrx

Yes talked to them today. I did not get the tool so they were looking to see if they have something that will do the same thing. Now that I am Stage2 I really need it with this damn heat in Phoenix.

Probably going to schedule it tomorrow.

I'm done with the tool, so if the shop doesn't have one let me know.