Running E85 all stock

[4Rings3Liters]

What are the pros/cons of running E85 in an otherwise stock (except ECS intake) B8.5 S4? Its hot here and Im looking to take my car to the track before stage 2 to get some base times. TIA.

[chrisucf99]

Cons, your car will run like crap since you need to be able to deliver 30% more fuel. You wont be able to run straight E85 effectively without upgrading your fuel pump / injectors, etc

I'm tuned and have mixed in upwards of 4 gallons of E85 into a tank of 93 octane and have had pretty good success there, but have never run an entire tank of E85.

[zcspec]

Unless your motor is tuned and e85 compliant, it's worthless for you to run e85.

[4Rings3Liters]

Cons, your car will run like crap since you need to be able to deliver 30% more fuel. You wont be able to run straight E85 effectively without upgrading your fuel pump / injectors, etc

I'm tuned and have mixed in upwards of 4 gallons of E85 into a tank of 93 octane and have had pretty good success there, but have never run an entire tank of E85.

Im not looking to run an entire tank of it, just a mixture with 93. Tunes dont upgrade fuel pumps or injectors so why would I need to?

[MrFunk]

If you are going to the track to run baselines why would you want to burn a fuel which your car is absolutely not designed to burn? Just run 93.

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[4Rings3Liters]

Unless your motor is tuned and e85 compliant, it's worthless for you to run e85.

So running some E85 in with 93 octane won't just raise the octane?

[migo1980]

My friend runs 4-5 gallons of e85 and the rest 93 and has seen some good improvements.

[colby7]

Cons, your car will run like crap since you need to be able to deliver 30% more fuel. You wont be able to run straight E85 effectively without upgrading your fuel pump / injectors, etc

I'm tuned and have mixed in upwards of 4 gallons of E85 into a tank of 93 octane and have had pretty good success there, but have never run an entire tank of E85.

EPL's E85 Stage 1 tune utilizes the OEM HPFP. Anything past that (Stage 2, dual pulley, etc) requires an upgraded HPFP. However he still can't run a full tank of E85 because he has a stock tune.

[4Rings3Liters]

So this is why I asked the question hoping for an actual answer. Some guys have said my car will run like crap because its not "tuned" for it and another guy says his friend has seen good improvements...? Any knowledgeable please chime in.

[cspcrx]

I am stock, other than an intake like you.

I have been running a mix of E85 and 91 for a year now and have had no codes or issues. I have on the other hand had lost performance during the summer returned. In the winter I felt little to no different between straight 91 and my mix. During the summer is a totally different story though, I absolutely feel the performance come back.

I fill up at the same point every time. The last white line on the fuel gauge. I put in 9 gal of 91 top tier fuel and then top it off with E85 which is usually 3 to 3.5 gal. After the first take this gets me to an octane rating of just over 94. 93 octane fuel is not available at the pump so this is a great alternative. I am getting tuned this Friday and plan on doing the same thing but running the 93 octane fuel map.

As a side note by buddy has a Supercharged V8 Jag and he did the same thing and instantly noticed the improvement as well. He now runs a mix to get him to 93-94 octane every time.
Hope my experience helps you.

PS I have run as much as 4 gal of E85, went beyond the white line and my guess was off. and still had no issues.

[LINDW4LL]

So this is why I asked the question hoping for an actual answer. Some guys have said my car will run like crap because its not "tuned" for it and another guy says his friend has seen good improvements...? Any knowledgeable please chime in.

He was referring to pure E85 I believe.

Mixing in 4-5 gallons of E85 with an otherwise full tank of 93 will indeed give you a performance increase by allowing you to run more timing advance before knock occurs.

[roadawg]

up to 5 or 6 gallons of E85 in your tank which is about 16 gallons and you will be fine. This should bring you around E30 or so.

I have 6 gallons of E85 in my tank right now, it's a noticeable difference over straight pump. In fact the car is faster than its been in a while even when its hot as hell out.

Now what is true is that you can't run straight E85 with the stock fuel system. E85 contains 30% less energy than pump gas, and thus requires 30% more flow to run it. Past 40% E85 in your tank or so is where the stock fuel system just can't keep up and you will, run like crap.

It would be great for this community if people stopped posting vague comments, or speak when they just don't know what they are talking about.

"Your car will run like crap" is a little vague confusing for people who are just learning about this awesome option.

I'll just add real quick that you don't need to be tuned to run up to 5 gallons of E85, you can do it stock but you won't see the same performance benefits that you would if you had a tune, that can take advantage of the increased octane and cooler charge.

[cspcrx]

^+1 on the vague comments!

[colby7]

up to 5 or 6 gallons of E85 in your tank which is about 16 gallons and you will be fine. This should bring you around E30 or so.

I have 6 gallons of E85 in my tank right now, it's a noticeable difference over straight pump. In fact the car is faster than its been in a while even when its hot as hell out.

Now what is true is that you can't run straight E85 with the stock fuel system. E85 contains 30% less energy than pump gas, and thus requires 30% more flow to run it. Past 40% E85 in your tank or so is where the stock fuel system just can't keep up and you will, run like crap.

It would be great for this community if people stopped posting vague comments, or speak when they just don't know what they are talking about.

"Your car will run like crap" is a little vague confusing for people who are just learning about this awesome option.

I'll just add real quick that you don't need to be tuned to run up to 5 gallons of E85, you can do it stock but you won't see the same performance benefits that you would if you had a tune, that can take advantage of the increased octane and cooler charge.

The stock fuel system hardware has the ability to run full E85, as long as it's tuned properly, and maintains the OEM crank and SC pulleys.

[ModItNow]

What are the pros/cons of running E85 in an otherwise stock (except ECS intake) B8.5 S4? Its hot here and Im looking to take my car to the track before stage 2 to get some base times. TIA.

With the heat you will definitely benefit from running an e85 blend. I would say 4 gallons, more than that in 95+ weather and you could throw a lean code. Works great for me!

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[KnewJack]

What about with just a APR stage 2 tune? Any more benefit than running it stock? Will ECU detect lower knock threshold/higher octane and use more advance timing tables?

[BAHNSTORMER]

Here's a handy calculator for blending: http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

[jprice]

First, log your timing correction. If there is none, then no benefit. If there is some, then there could be some benefit.

[roadawg]

The stock fuel system hardware has the ability to run full E85, as long as it's tuned properly, and maintains the OEM crank and SC pulleys.

I honestly did not know that, I never heard of this before.

I read the high pressure fuel pump can't keep up with flow demands.

Thx for clarification.

[Silverbullet S4]

The stock fuel system hardware has the ability to run full E85, as long as it's tuned properly, and maintains the OEM crank and SC pulleys.

What is this info based on? Conflicting reports out there on this....

[colby7]

What is this info based on? Conflicting reports out there on this....

See EPL E85 Stage 1 - it uses the OEM HPFP.

[roadawg]

See EPL E85 Stage 1 - it uses the OEM HPFP.

When you say stage one, you mean stock pulley, EPL tune and 100% E85?

But, if you get a smaller SC pulley, re-tune and run 100% E85 then you need an upgraded high pressure fuel pump?

Not a fan of "stages" as descriptors. Sorry I am very technical.

[colby7]

When you say stage one, you mean stock pulley, EPL tune and 100% E85?

But, if you get a smaller SC pulley, re-tune and run 100% E85 then you need an upgraded high pressure fuel pump?

Not a fan of "stages" as descriptors. Sorry I am very technical.

Yes to both questions.

[cspcrx]

What about with just a APR stage 2 tune? Any more benefit than running it stock? Will ECU detect lower knock threshold/higher octane and use more advance timing tables?

Here is my plan for what it is worth as I am getting tuned this Friday with APR ECU, TCU, fully loaded ECU tune and Stage 2 pulley. My AMS Alpha cooler is on its way from the group buy EPL had so I will not have it in before I get tuned. Keep in mind I live in Phoenix where its 112 for a high and 90 for a low right now.

I am going to run the 91 octane map with my current fuel mix that gets me about 94 octane, that I mentioned above. Once I get the Alpha cooler installed I am going to switch to the 93 octane map with the same fuel mix.

The tunes have room to adjust, within the tables. So if it is not perfect it will pull timing and you just don't get the max power that you could get for that map. As mentioned above the best way to know is to log timing to see if it is being pulled. This will let you know if your getting all you can out of the tune your running.

[jomama229]

When you say stage one, you mean stock pulley, EPL tune and 100% E85?

But, if you get a smaller SC pulley, re-tune and run 100% E85 then you need an upgraded high pressure fuel pump?

that is correct.

when i contacted EPL about running pure e85 vs. a mix of e85, here's what i was told. since i'm in CA, we only get 91oct. a mix of e85 and 91 can be run on the 93oct tune. running on full e85 however, will require an e85 tune.

[chaos2984]

The stock fuel system hardware has the ability to run full E85, as long as it's tuned properly, and maintains the OEM crank and SC pulleys.

it does not. If it was able to run on full E85 audi would of advertised it that way.

Running full E85 in a stock car will throw cel's You will get lean codes. They factory tune is meant and designed to run on 91-93 octane. running a little above it can compensate with fuel trims. But anything crazy high Yea it can compensate to an extent but when it gets over a certain compensation level it will throw a cel.

If you want to run some E85 thats fine but not a ton

[LINDW4LL]

it does not. If it was able to run on full E85 audi would of advertised it that way.

Running full E85 in a stock car will throw cel's You will get lean codes. They factory tune is meant and designed to run on 91-93 octane. running a little above it can compensate with fuel trims. But anything crazy high Yea it can compensate to an extent but when it gets over a certain compensation level it will throw a cel.

Uhhh, he specifically said, that the stock hardware is capable of supporting E85 "as long as [the ECU] is tuned properly".

AKA, an E85 tune.

[chaos2984]

Uhhh, he specifically said, that the stock hardware is capable of supporting E85 "as long as [the ECU] is tuned properly".

AKA, an E85 tune.

guess I was more tired that I thought. Sorry just read it wrong.

[pdqgp]

What about with just a APR stage 2 tune? Any more benefit than running it stock? Will ECU detect lower knock threshold/higher octane and use more advance timing tables?

See my sig.

I run a blend and do notice a difference in the VERY hot weather we're seeing now. Once temps drop below 80* I run just 93. If you don't regularly drive with "spirit" you will probably never notice the difference. I do 2-3 gals of E85 with 93 for the rest. Have never seen an issue or a code and logs are just fine.

[cspcrx]

I wish we had 93 here, you would think a place that gets as hot as the damn sun would! E85 blend is the only option we have.