Coil upgrade?? 2.0t fsi vs rs6

[awd2ks4]

Anybody have any first hand experience on which set is the best ?? Did u even feel a difference afterwards?

[S4James]

ive heard claims the R8 ones are "better"

but nothing in terms of raw numbers. I have read that the regular tfsi (2.0) coils are 20% stronger than the stock ones.

[vavJETTAw36]

Rs6 will give you less headache. They bolt on like stock (sealing out moisture and self grounding) while the fsi will need an extra ground wires. Rs6, if used in conjunction with the harnesses, is a true plug and play, reliable kit.


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[Monty23]

Upgrade is a very loose term. I think aesthetics and the fact that it's cheaper to replace the old system with the 2.0 coils is the main driver for people swapping.

[S4James]

do the RS6 ones eliminate the need for the ICMs like the FSI coils?

I have one of these shitty FSI coilpack conversions and I hate it.

[Monty23]

do the RS6 ones eliminate the need for the ICMs like the FSI coils?

I have one of these shitty FSI coilpack conversions and I hate it.

Yes, you eliminate the ICMs with the RS6 coils. They are more expensive than the 2.0 coils, but you don't need adapter plates since they bolt in like the original 2.7 ones.

[czsrock1990]

x2 on RS6 coil kit. Put mine on a month ago and love love love them. They bolt right on and have the ICM delete.

[S4James]

Yes, you eliminate the ICMs with the RS6 coils. They are more expensive than the 2.0 coils, but you don't need adapter plates since they bolt in like the original 2.7 ones.

they are wired the same i presume? I can use my existing 3->4 wire adapters?

[vavJETTAw36]

they are wired the same i presume? I can use my existing 3->4 wire adapters?

Yes sir.

The fsi and rs6 and r8 use the same connector.


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[axnjaksn]

x3 on the rs6 coil kit, they are super easy to install, seal up to the valve covers nicely....034 has a kit pretty good....idk if it was and upgrade but it will save me $$$ in the future with failing coils and icms

[redline380]

I dont think people realize this, but there is nothing special about them just because RS6. They were used on all sorts of cars. The FSI coils are upgraded style.

The RS6/ATW coils aren't that bad, but I would upgrade my ATW to FSI coils.

[vavJETTAw36]

I dont think people realize this, but there is nothing special about them just because RS6. They were used on all sorts of cars. The FSI coils are upgraded style.

The RS6/ATW coils aren't that bad, but I would upgrade my ATW to FSI coils.

This goes back to "define upgraded". Seriously, you could say the exact same thing about the fsi, what is upgraded about them? Quick change? Tendency to die quickly?

Now going back to the reasons to "upgrade". Most people are "upgrading" to get rid of ICM fail point or just because they have a couple bad coils so just taking the opportunity. Additionally, the newer ones are cheaper so down the road you won't spend as much to replace.

Now, when I change something in a car I want it to work the same if not better than what I replace it with. The fsi coils, while at 15 a pop, I've seen die all the time. Rates exceeding stock beru coils. Then throw in the fact that it water gets in my engine bay it will easily pass by those conversion plates or through the "quick change" area? Then to make matters worse, the FSI conversion doesn't play nicely with our cars unless you use the updated harnesses with grounds or run your own. The addition to the harnesses is already super messy and adding a ground wire on top of that is really messy.

So, with regard to options for "upgraded" coils, the Rs6s are in fact special. They are true plug and play and leave it alone.




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[joeSfour]

Anybody have any first hand experience on which set is the best ?? Did u even feel a difference afterwards?

If you aren't having problems with your current set up, don't change it. The only reason I went to the RS6 style coils was because it was cheaper than buying new IMCs at the time. That being said, if you are going to change up the coils, I would go RS6.

[Monty23]

This goes back to "define upgraded".

Glad I didn't respond as you summed up my thoughts nicely. I have seen no evidence that 2.0 coils are a performance upgrade. They are just cheaper and fail more often than the stockers. As soon as you purchase a second 2.0 coil, you could have bought one of the factory coils for the same money...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Now, when I change something in a car I want it to work the same if not better than what I replace it with. The fsi coils, while at 15 a pop, I've seen die all the time.

Odd I've seen the latest FSI coils to be quite reliable. But anecdotal evidence is just that right.

Then to make matters worse, the FSI conversion doesn't play nicely with our cars unless you use the updated harnesses with grounds or run your own. The addition to the harnesses is already super messy and adding a ground wire on top of that is really messy.

I've never seen the need to run an extra ground at all... Ever. It makes ZERO difference to the coil where the GND comes from. When I make coil harnesses to convert (all kinds of) cars to FSI coils I just use one GND point (chassis) and put a jumper between the pins under the boot. Works perfectly fine.

[vavJETTAw36]

Odd I've seen the latest FSI coils to be quite reliable. But anecdotal evidence is just that right.



I've never seen the need to run an extra ground at all... Ever. It makes ZERO difference to the coil where the GND comes from. When I make coil harnesses to convert (all kinds of) cars to FSI coils I just use one GND point (chassis) and put a jumper between the pins under the boot. Works perfectly fine.

Not sure I follow. You just stated you run a ground. Running a ground is not the same thing as running an extra ground? Rs6 coils you plug the bastards in. Maybe I misunderstood


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[redline380]

So, with regard to options for "upgraded" coils, the Rs6s are in fact special. They are true plug and play and leave it alone.

They aren't plug and play, you still need to adapt the harness.

FSI coils deliver a stronger spark as evidenced in the increased gap.

10k on my FSI coils in my A4, no failures. And they are cheap. However, FSI coils in my A4 truly were plug and play.

If you have problems with water getting in your engine bay, I'd be more worried about that than which coil you are using. I simply wanted to bring up the fact that everyone seems to think RS6 cols are special. They are not and were used in many models. Also, any revisions done to the car to run RS6 coils will set you up for FSI coils too. Make up your own mind.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Not sure I follow. You just stated you run a ground. Running a ground is not the same thing as running an extra ground? Rs6 coils you plug the bastards in. Maybe I misunderstood

Correct, no extra ground. There already is a GND point to every existing coil plug. You don't need 2 grounds like you claim.

[wbrunner23]

This goes back to "define upgraded". Seriously, you could say the exact same thing about the fsi, what is upgraded about them? Quick change? Tendency to die quickly?

Now going back to the reasons to "upgrade". Most people are "upgrading" to get rid of ICM fail point or just because they have a couple bad coils so just taking the opportunity. Additionally, the newer ones are cheaper so down the road you won't spend as much to replace.

Now, when I change something in a car I want it to work the same if not better than what I replace it with. The fsi coils, while at 15 a pop, I've seen die all the time. Rates exceeding stock beru coils. Then throw in the fact that it water gets in my engine bay it will easily pass by those conversion plates or through the "quick change" area? Then to make matters worse, the FSI conversion doesn't play nicely with our cars unless you use the updated harnesses with grounds or run your own. The addition to the harnesses is already super messy and adding a ground wire on top of that is really messy.

So, with regard to options for "upgraded" coils, the Rs6s are in fact special. They are true plug and play and leave it alone.




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I've been running FSI coils for over 2 years and haven't lost one yet. Those 2 years included a lot of driving - probably >30k miles, including a 5,000mi over 3.5 weeks cross-country trip, and multiple Southern Oregon to San Fran, LA, Portland, & Seattle trips. I've never had any issues with water in the spark well, and I use the Touareg plastic adapters.

Yea, the RS6 coils may seal better and bolt down like stock, but I prefer the convenience of a push down coil and $15 replacements.

[vavJETTAw36]

Correct, no extra ground. There already is a GND point to every existing coil plug. You don't need 2 grounds like you claim.

Are you referring to the existing circuit running through the factory harness? Yes, the brown wire.

Why do you think the ecs kit uses the extra ground wire on their harnesses? Seems to me they created a product knowing full well they'd need an extra ground. Does the 034 have one? No. There's been many guys on here that have had to ground the coils better.


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[NOTORIOUS VR]

Are you referring to the existing circuit running through the factory harness? Yes, the brown wire.

Why do you think the ecs kit uses the extra ground wire on their harnesses? Seems to me they created a product knowing full well they'd need an extra ground. Does the 034 have one? No. There's been many guys on here that have had to ground the coils better.


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I have no idea why someone chose to do something the way they do. But you making assumptions isn't the right way to go about it. If you trust ECS for some strange reason all the more power to you. I know people who have over 100k km on the 034 FSI kit without issues (except that they don't do good QC on their products and sent us an ICM delete cable that had wires crossed which almost made us rip out a whole motor trying to diag the misfire issue).

Everyone has to remember that these cars are OLD... the Wiring harness on these cars has gone thought a lot of stress and heat and movement from people ripping at them. I'd sooner guess that failures are due to poor connections/wiring or even bad crimps for these plug and play kits.

In either case, there is no problem connecting it either way. Adding more grounds doesn't give you any more reliability or spark or whatever else you might think it does, that sir is a FACT.

[vavJETTAw36]

I have no idea why someone chose to do something the way they do. But you making assumptions isn't the right way to go about it. If you trust ECS for some strange reason all the more power to you. I know people who have over 100k km on the 034 FSI kit without issues (except that they don't do good QC on their products and sent us an ICM delete cable that had wires crossed which almost made us rip out a whole motor trying to diag the misfire issue).

Everyone has to remember that these cars are OLD... the Wiring harness on these cars has gone thought a lot of stress and heat and movement from people ripping at them. I'd sooner guess that failures are due to poor connections/wiring or even bad crimps for these plug and play kits.

In either case, there is no problem connecting it either way. Adding more grounds doesn't give you any more reliability or spark or whatever else you might think it does, that sir is a FACT.

I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding our old cars and old wiring. Most of the issues are probably due to pre existing or new grounding issues. But I can only assume just like you can only assume.

I dont have any idea and you don't have any idea why ecs chose to add a ground wire, that is true. But if I were selling I product, I would not add functionality for the hell of it. Do you seriously think ecs felt like adding wiring because they were feeling nice that day? Come on don't be hard headed. They most likely had many complaints about it and revisioned their product.


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[christianb5s4]

Ha, you people are making this choice harder for people by going back and forth countering each other. I personally find that stock coils and ICMs are more than adequate for almost all power levels, as long as they are in good shape. Plus, it's easy to find ones in great condition for cheap from people who switched to FSI/2.0/RS6 coils. However, to Notorious' point, a lot of these cars eventually will have problems with the stock wiring harnesses going to the coils and cause issues.

On my car, some of the outer covers on those coil wiring harnesses are splitting and want to find a solution to that.

[mikeb17]

In my four years of b5 ownership I've never had a single coil or icm fail 😂

[vavJETTAw36]

I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding our old cars and old wiring. Most of the issues are probably due to pre existing or new grounding issues. But I can only assume just like you can only assume.

I dont have any idea and you don't have any idea why ecs chose to add a ground wire, that is true. But if I were selling I product, I would not add functionality for the hell of it. Do you seriously think ecs felt like adding wiring because they were feeling nice that day? Come on don't be hard headed. They most likely had many complaints about it and revisioned their product.


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So I found out from ECS that it depends on the plates being used. Since some of their kits use a powdercoated plate, the ground wire is to make up for missing contact on the valve cover. So that is the difference. So just keep that in mind when looking at plates.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding our old cars and old wiring. Most of the issues are probably due to pre existing or new grounding issues. But I can only assume just like you can only assume.

I'm not really assuming.. I've seen what the wiring does on cars of this age. I had issues with my personal car as well. The wiring is hard and brittle.

I dont have any idea and you don't have any idea why ecs chose to add a ground wire, that is true. But if I were selling I product, I would not add functionality for the hell of it. Do you seriously think ecs felt like adding wiring because they were feeling nice that day? Come on don't be hard headed. They most likely had many complaints about it and revisioned their product.

I'm not thinking or assuming anything. YOU are though for whatever reason. Why someone chooses to do something one way or another is really up to them.

What I am telling you though is that you don't need separate grounds.

So I found out from ECS that it depends on the plates being used. Since some of their kits use a powdercoated plate, the ground wire is to make up for missing contact on the valve cover. So that is the difference. So just keep that in mind when looking at plates.

Again, makes zero sense. Who cares if the plate is grounded. It's not like the coil is grounded to the plate anyway.

[vavJETTAw36]

I'm not really assuming.. I've seen what the wiring does on cars of this age. I had issues with my personal car as well. The wiring is hard and brittle.



I'm not thinking or assuming anything. YOU are though for whatever reason. Why someone chooses to do something one way or another is really up to them.

What I am telling you though is that you don't need separate grounds.

See post above


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[S4James]

In my four years of b5 ownership I've never had a single coil or icm fail 😂

Well now you have done it... What could possible go wrong?

[Bordom]

Well now you have done it... What could possible go wrong?

Exactly, just jinxed himself lol

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[mikeb17]

You guys are superstitious 😂

[okkim]

Look the Audi wiring diagrams where these coils are used, and how they are wired. The power ground is separate from the signal ground, and for a reason! It is not the same that how those are grounded. The coils will make radio frequency interference which can produce many kind of problems. And separating the grounds help not to get that interference to the ECU. I can't explain this very well in English, but you can search it from the internet if you don't believe me.

And think about a bit, why Audi would do something which costs money, if the don't have a reason for it!?

[e30mclow]

I did the 2.0T Coil Conversion for no other reason than it being "a thing" that everyone else seems to do. Really created more trouble than it was worth with all the splicing and BS.

Regarding the 2 grounds per coil, which I've mentioned in other posts, I ended up running one of the pins to an individual grounding point on each valve cover.
Why? I was having @ idle misfires ONLY after installing the 2.0T Coils.
Was the initial pairing of grounds the cause? I've no idea, but the issue went away after running individual grounds.

Was it all worth it? I seriously fucking doubt it to be honest. Should have just bought a new stock coil.

[Mark00s4]

so what is a ignition upgrade for these cars? so the stock system is good for 30 + psi ?

[Bordom]

so what is a ignition upgrade for these cars? so the stock system is good for 30 + psi ?

Stock system is proven to 700whp. I know a guy running +40PSI on his built single turbo with stock coils

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[awd2ks4]

I'm starting to get some misfires/studders at high load high boost on hills which makes me think it's getting blown out. New plugs gapped a .028 and it still does it sometimes. So I'm thinking new coils are in order since I've never changed them got the car at 60k and I'm at 140k now and i want to delete the icms anyway. When running rs6 coils where do I get the harnesses and icm delete? I know places that sell the icm delete wires but not the harnesses for the coils

[Trb1]

I'm starting to get some misfires/studders at high load high boost on hills which makes me think it's getting blown out. New plugs gapped a .028 and it still does it sometimes. So I'm thinking new coils are in order since I've never changed them got the car at 60k and I'm at 140k now and i want to delete the icms anyway. When running rs6 coils where do I get the harnesses and icm delete? I know places that sell the icm delete wires but not the harnesses for the coils

If you do the solder method you actually can clean a lot of the wiring harness up and cut out some of the old brittle wires. It will cost you under $200 for everything all said and done as well. Touareg adapter plates are like $6 a piece, you can buy r8 coils for $130 or so and 4 wire plugs for another $30 as well. More time to do it but it's the same effect and cheaper in the end.

[vavJETTAw36]

If you do the solder method you actually can clean a lot of the wiring harness up and cut out some of the old brittle wires. It will cost you under $200 for everything all said and done as well. Touareg adapter plates are like $6 a piece, you can buy r8 coils for $130 or so and 4 wire plugs for another $30 as well. More time to do it but it's the same effect and cheaper in the end.

Time is money baby.


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[awd2ks4]

So can I increase the gap with these rs6 coils ??

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So can I increase the gap with these rs6 coils ??

That depends on how tight you had to go with your other coils.

If your OEM coils were in good shape then you probably didn't have to gap them down much in the first place.

That said, you can certainly try opening them within reason and see if your setup works with that.

[awd2ks4]

I usually run a .028 gap