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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings fR3ZNO's Avatar
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    Feb 09 2013
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    SAI Insufficient Flow... Stumped (Cross Post)

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    Been having some issues diagnosing SAI codes (P0411) on my friend's 2.8 C5. It's an ATQ. I've gone through the whole system and I still get an incorrect flow code and "System Not OK" in VCDS for both banks when I run the test in Basic Settings.

    I started with replacing the air pump, was full of water that was brown due to rust. Also replaced the hoses going to and from the air pump. Pump will turn on when testing the relay in Output Tests in VCDS. Can feel strong rushing of air with pipe disconnected from air pump. So it's safe to assume that the relay and fuse are fine if it's running during the VCDS test?

    Then, I checked the combi valves, both were so caked with carbon that a can of carb/choke cleaner didn't help. Pulled a set from PnP and bench tested them with MityVac hand pump. Held vacuum and valves opened when vacuum was applied. While installing them, I used some gasket paper (made holes and trimmed edges to fit) and a very light coat of RTV to hold it in place when installing on the cylinder heads.

    Double checked vacuum line routing, according to the diagram under the hood, everything looked okay to me. Only thing that I noticed was the blue check valve seemed to be backwards. But the check valve did work, could only suck air through on one side. Put that side towards the vacuum source. Also checked to make sure that there was vacuum from line while car was running. Vacuum lines had been previously replaced with silicone line.

    With the output tests on VCDS also checked the N112 solenoid valve, could hear solenoid clicking and verified that vacuum could pass through when it was energized.

    So, even after all of this when I run the test in Basic Settings (channel 77 for one bank, 78 for the other), it will run and then the result is "System not OK" for both banks. Then fault codes are stored for SAI insufficient flow on both banks. I noticed that while the test is running, MAF % reading while go down to -100%~ or so, VCDS states specification is -100% to 50%. I would imagine that -100% would show that extra air is being sucked from the air box into the combi valves (but not necessarily into the exhaust stream)?

    The only thing that I can think of is that the hand made gaskets were installed backwards and is impeding airflow or the passages in the cylinder heads themselves are clogged with carbon. I don't believe the passages are clogged however, since cylinder heads mating surfaces were decked for a head gasket replacement a few months ago. I believe they were hot tanked, so that would remove any carbon buildup in the passages.

    I apologize in advance for the wall of text. I'm at my wit's end with this and can't figure it out.
    "If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings DeltaAlpha9's Avatar
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    Jan 03 2012
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    Sign me up for the answer as well. I've had this code for over a year now and I'm kind of getting tired of the light on the dash. How did you get the pump to come on via VCDS? I tried one procedure and could hear all the relays click but never got the pump to run via the testing.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings nynoah's Avatar
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    Jan 16 2006
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    01.5 A4 avant Past cars: 95 S6, 85 Golf II VR6, 2 sciroccos, 92 Corrado VR6, 86 Euro BMW 535 Alpina
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    Get a new pump. Replace your 02 sensor.
    2001.5 black on black avant 5spd, EFR 6758, Pag Parts band manifold, Vibrant GESI High flow CAT, 2.0L 06A, IE intake manifold, built AEB head, 1000cc Boosted Euro Tune, bosch 044, Ringer Racing stage 3 hybrid Organic/Cerametalic 240mm clutch, S4 interior upgrade, full S4 brakes front and rear with lines, 17in OZ Racing Ultraleggera, 034 HD suspension arms, Stern soft mounts, mirimoto bixenon etc. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-Build-thread

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings fR3ZNO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAlpha9 View Post
    Sign me up for the answer as well. I've had this code for over a year now and I'm kind of getting tired of the light on the dash. How did you get the pump to come on via VCDS? I tried one procedure and could hear all the relays click but never got the pump to run via the testing.
    Sorry for the delayed answer, I guess I wasn't subscribed to the thread.

    You can get the pump to come on in output tests. The car has to be off. There are also tests for the relay and solenoid valve in there.

    You can also run another test with the car running in basic settings, channel 077 I believe. It will run the pump and make sure there's proper flow into the exhaust.

    Quote Originally Posted by nynoah View Post
    Get a new pump. Replace your 02 sensor.
    Thanks for the suggestions. But the car was sold before I had a chance to look at it again... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    "If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche

  5. #5
    Senior Member Three Rings DoesntCare's Avatar
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    Feb 28 2016
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    369507
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    SEPA

    Were you running an output test only, or did you also follow the steps to set the readiness monitors?

    I am not sure if the output test would have had you get the car into the conditions to set the monitor.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings fR3ZNO's Avatar
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    I did both. I ran the output test just to make sure the individual components were working.

    I ran the test in basic settings and it failed. I also tried to set readiness and went through the whole process and the SAI failed to set readiness.


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    "If one does not fail at times, then one has not challenged himself." - Ferdinand Porsche

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