Help Me Troubleshoot - If you're right I'll give you a reward

[burg3ngold]

Hey All - I've had a few issues with my car and I hope to thoroughly document them below to see if we can figure out the problem and get to a fix

B8.5 2.0T A5
37,000 Miles
Outside of Warranty

Modifications and Install Date:
RS Grill (6/3/2016)
RocEuro Intake (6/14/2016) <- I'm sure they uninstalled and reinstalled on 7/2 to do the below High Flow CAT
034 High Flow Cat (7/2/2016)
AWE Touring Exhaust (7/2/2016)
H&R Coilovers & Alignment (7/2/2016)
Stage 2 Tune (7/2/2016)

Issues:

Scenario 1 - The night of the tune + mods
On the night of 7/2/2016 after driving about 4 hours (two 2 hour trips) since picking the car up from NGP (install shop), I was at the top of 2nd gear and the car felt like it hit a brick wall. Pushed forward into the seat belt with immediate power loss. The dashboard lit up like a christmas tree and I put clutch in and idle was shaky at 1k rpm. I saw an error of TPMS showing up on the dash. I pull over and kill the motor, wait a minute, restart. The only error I see is a TPMS exception and I head off with the car seeming to be fine. After about 300 feet the TPMS error goes away. I run the VAGCOM for codes and get the following:

4698 - Function Restriction due to Faults in Other Modules
U1113 00 [032] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 59828 km
Date: 2016.07.02
Time: 22:51:33

4624 - Engine Torque Monitor 2
P1335 00 [096] - Control Limit Exceeded
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 59828 km
Date: 2016.07.02
Time: 22:51:32

I search around on the forums and don't find anything in particular. I clear the codes chalking it up to the ECU freaking out after the tune and me driving a bit too hard. Maybe I hit redline (I don't think I did) and I should just chill out. I contacted NGP and they said to clear codes and let us know if it happens again.


Scenario 2 - The re-occurrence
The other day, 10 days later from the first instance on 7/12/2016, I was driving to work and in the car for about 40 minutes just driving normally. I was coming off a ramp and was at about 80% throttle in 3rd gear and about 4k RPM the car felt like it hit a brick wall. Pushed forward into the seat belt with immediate power loss. The dashboard lit up like a christmas tree and I put clutch in and idle was shaky at 1k rpm. I saw an error of TPMS showing up on the dash. I pull over and kill the motor, wait a minute, restart. The only error I see is a TPMS exception and I head off with the car seeming to be fine. After about 300 feet the TPMS error goes away. I run the VAGCOM for codes and get the following:


4698 - Function Restriction due to Faults in Other Modules
U1113 00 [032] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60413 km
Date: 2016.07.12
Time: 11:10:58

2837 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0088 00 [096] - Too High
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60413 km
Date: 2016.07.12
Time: 11:11:09

10203 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 00 [096] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60221 km
Date: 2016.07.08
Time: 08:12:14

10591 - Cylinder 1
P0301 00 [096] - Misfire Detected
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60221 km
Date: 2016.07.08
Time: 08:12:28

4624 - Engine Torque Monitor 2
P1335 00 [096] - Control Limit Exceeded
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60413 km
Date: 2016.07.12
Time: 11:10:57


So from what I can see, the same thing happened twice about 10 days apart. I got two of the same error codes 4698 (Function Restriction due to Faults in Other Modules) and 4624 (Engine Torque Monitor 2) both times; however, I additionally got 2837 (Fuel Rail/System Pressure) at the same time. Looking at the Error I also got a misfire on cylinder 1 a few days earlier on 7/8 that I have no recollection of.

Would love if you guys could help me out here.

Thanks,
KD


----------UPDATE------------

It's not a good one. It happened again for a 3rd time a day after yesterdays incident. Same scenario as above except this time I was maybe 4k RPM in 2nd gear at 70% throttle.


2837 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
P0088 00 [096] - Too High
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60674 km
Date: 2016.07.14
Time: 18:59:21

4624 - Engine Torque Monitor 2
P1335 00 [096] - Control Limit Exceeded
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60674 km
Date: 2016.07.14
Time: 18:59:09

[Chanman94]

For P1335, check here, I'm guessing it's either the MAF or they didn't hook up the intake tight enough and it's leaking. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17743/P1335

The misfires, what you can try is switch the coilpack from cylinder 1 with another cylinder. If it misfires again but in the cylinder which you swapped the coilpack from cylinder 1, then it's time to replace those.

[burg3ngold]

For P1335, check here, I'm guessing it's either the MAF or they didn't hook up the intake tight enough and it's leaking. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17743/P1335

The misfires, what you can try is switch the coilpack from cylinder 1 with another cylinder. If it misfires again but in the cylinder which you swapped the coilpack from cylinder 1, then it's time to replace those.

Thanks man, I'll have to check this out. I think I'll uninstall the Intake and re-install and see if that works. I've never messed with coilpacks before, so that may need to be thought about for a bit.

[Chanman94]

Thanks man, I'll have to check this out. I think I'll uninstall the Intake and re-install and see if that works. I've never messed with coilpacks before, so that may need to be thought about for a bit.

Coilpacks are easy to replace, you can find a DIY for it in the B8 A4 section.

[Crusader105]

Could your tune to Stage 2 be causing this? Seems like it has occurred after that change and all was good before.

Can you have the vendor verify that the tunes good and reinstall it? This would at least take it out of the equation.

[ParadigmTony]

You're likely hitting fuel cut, or boost loss. This is a few respective things, injector failure, fuel pump failure, or clog. Spark has a much more muted misfire. I have experienced this a few times under high boost but with no codes. Its bad! You likely have a faulty waste gate, diverter valve (although these wouldn't be so abrupt). Fuel cut is much more aggressive although rare, injectors could be failing, they were a common issue in 2010, replaced mine. Lastly you could be releasing boost substantially, loose ic pipe etc. Check your Wastegate. On the new tune three things have been improved, more boost, more fuel, which requires more spark and naturally means more air. Seeing as this happened post tune you can narrow it down to fuel. FWIW i have the Roc Intake and this is when it started. I still have it, and after addressing a few other things don't have the problem. I also only have it happen on 100oct.

[burg3ngold]

You're likely hitting fuel cut, or boost loss. This is a few respective things, injector failure, fuel pump failure, or clog. Spark has a much more muted misfire. I have experienced this a few times under high boost but with no codes. Its bad! You likely have a faulty waste gate, diverter valve (although these wouldn't be so abrupt). Fuel cut is much more aggressive although rare, injectors could be failing, they were a common issue in 2010, replaced mine. Lastly you could be releasing boost substantially, loose ic pipe etc. Check your Wastegate. On the new tune three things have been improved, more boost, more fuel, which requires more spark and naturally means more air. Seeing as this happened post tune you can narrow it down to fuel. FWIW i have the Roc Intake and this is when it started. I still have it, and after addressing a few other things don't have the problem. I also only have it happen on 100oct.

Thanks for your input -

I contacted the shop but haven't herd back yet.
I purchased r8 coils and ngk plugs gapped at .028 (I'll reverify the gap)

Can you point in me to the location to get the latest rev for the DV and what Injectors I should get for a 2013 B8.5 2.0T?

[Sgibb16]

fuel pressure regulator

[JamesRS5]

If I remember correctly from my stage 2+ VW Scirocco R, the day after the tune I hit exactly the same wall at WOT. The tuner (REVO) downloaded the codes and said it was the boost spiking too high and I believe he said the ECU kills the ignition not the fuel in these circumstances which would explain the hitting a wall feeling.
It's a few years since this happened and I can't remember if they backed off the boost a little or just left it for the ECU to adapt but it did only happen the once.

The car is the same engine I believe and I also had the REVO intake, decat down pipe, high pressure fuel pump and updated plugs. Supporting mods were a FMIC, and Akrapovic exhaust.

Have you considered fitting the fuel pump?

[burg3ngold]

If I remember correctly from my stage 2+ VW Scirocco R, the day after the tune I hit exactly the same wall at WOT. The tuner (REVO) downloaded the codes and said it was the boost spiking too high and I believe he said the ECU kills the ignition not the fuel in these circumstances which would explain the hitting a wall feeling.
It's a few years since this happened and I can't remember if they backed off the boost a little or just left it for the ECU to adapt but it did only happen the once.

The car is the same engine I believe and I also had the REVO intake, decat down pipe, high pressure fuel pump and updated plugs. Supporting mods were a FMIC, and Akrapovic exhaust.

Have you considered fitting the fuel pump?

Thanks for the info James, but what do you mean by "fitting the fuel pump"?

[JamesRS5]

Well you have the stage 2 tune, high flow cat and intake, a supporting modification is the high pressure fuel pump. You won't run the risk of going lean with high boost and it will give you a little extra mid range and top end.

[burg3ngold]

Update - It happened again, for the third time... I'll put the details in an edit on the original post along with details. Going to pull the tune off.

[burg3ngold]

Had NGP in Lorton take a look at the car and they said they didn't find anything wrong with the Turbo, Wastegate, Intake Piping, or DV. They were able to replicate the code as well. We flashed the car back to stock and I'm going to see if it happens again. I have an appointment to bring the car back in on the 5th of August along with the stock airbox. They have a feeling that the car is getting too much air from the Roc Euro intake and the Stage 2 tune isn't account for it properly.

[A4 Centaur]

This is confounding for sure!

I don't know if it's plugs or what. My engine hasn't done it for a while. Now I'm getting DV codes.

I might try different plugs like one OP mentioned, and said to go back to copper plugs.

I dunno.

[Sgibb16]

Had NGP in Lorton take a look at the car and they said they didn't find anything wrong with the Turbo, Wastegate, Intake Piping, or DV. They were able to replicate the code as well. We flashed the car back to stock and I'm going to see if it happens again. I have an appointment to bring the car back in on the 5th of August along with the stock airbox. They have a feeling that the car is getting too much air from the Roc Euro intake and the Stage 2 tune isn't account for it properly.

There is no way its the intake. Roc euro intake is the same as pretty much every intake out there and no one else has gotten "too much airflow".

[burg3ngold]

There is no way its the intake. Roc euro intake is the same as pretty much every intake out there and no one else has gotten "too much airflow".

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I think it's something wrong with the apr tune... I mean at this point I haven't seen the problem running stock with the same parts.. So I guess we will see what the stock parts log at

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[JamesRS5]

It is possible if the ECU is using a MAF to measure the air. The MAF relies on its measurement using a certain size tube diameter, if you alter this tube diameter at the point the MAF is located then it is no longer calibrated correctly.

Not sure if your car uses a MAF?

[burg3ngold]

It is possible if the ECU is using a MAF to measure the air. The MAF relies on its measurement using a certain size tube diameter, if you alter this tube diameter at the point the MAF is located then it is no longer calibrated correctly.

Not sure if your car uses a MAF?

Yeah i'm using the stock MAF on the roc euro intake

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[JamesRS5]

I'm not familiar with the ROC intake, do you remove the MAF and insert it into the new intake tube?

If this is the case then your ECU tune won't take this into account and the air volume entering the engine will be greater than what the ECU thinks it's getting.

[Sgibb16]

I'm not familiar with the ROC intake, do you remove the MAF and insert it into the new intake tube?

If this is the case then your ECU tune won't take this into account and the air volume entering the engine will be greater than what the ECU thinks it's getting.

No it reuses the entire stock MAF assy, tube and all.

[burg3ngold]

So update, I haven't seen the same problem since flashed back to stock.

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[jschrauwen]

Thanks for your input -

I contacted the shop but haven't herd back yet.
I purchased r8 coils and ngk plugs gapped at .028 (I'll reverify the gap)

1. Any comments to the change to R8 (115E) coilpacks?
2. What gap did you use for the plugs?

[Hy Octane]

Its the tune. Stay stock and be worry free..

[JamesRS5]

Knock sensor causing fuel cut?

Your tune may be a little too aggressive on the ignition curve causing knock.

You could try the stage 2+ high pressure fuel pump.

[Jezza]

Here's my opinion:

It's not that intake. I doubt it flows any better than any other intake or even the stock box with an afe filter. That same tune has been flashed to 1000s of cars without the described issue. You have a hardware failure somewhere. The tune just helped to tease it out, because it pushes the hardware a little harder. Whatever the failure is, it will likely get worse till this is happening on even the stock tune. You should go ahead and try to track this down.

"4624 - Engine Torque Monitor 2
P1335 00 [096] - Control Limit Exceeded
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 60674 km
Date: 2016.07.14
Time: 18:59:09"

Your n75 valve is probably worn out and not able to open quickly enough to prevent over boosting once it gets hot. This causes a torque spike which exceeds the allowable limit by the ecu. The ecu sees this and cuts fueling and throttle asap. The cut is so quick that it feels like you're hitting a brick wall. The over boosting also causes a lean condition hence the misfires. As for the fuel rail/system pressure being too high. I think the sudden fuel cut always leads to this, because the sudden cut causes pressure to momentarily build up in the system before being relieved.

I once blew an intercooler pipe off. The car went into limp mode with accompanying fuel and throttle cuts, and this was one of the fault codes that popped up. I was like wtf, because I knew exactly what had happend. It had nothing to do with the fuel system. I thought about it for a long time, and the above explanation is the best I can come up with.

If your MAF sensor (or the amount of the flow itself) was the issue, you would be getting an implausible signal code for the MAF sensor.

Misfires from bad coilpacks and/or plugs don't cause the fuel and throttle cuts like you described. I've had that issue as well, and its a lot more subtle. Most of the time misfires don't even cause a CEL. I notice mine was an issue while logging other parameters with VCDS. I just happened to include the misfire counter for kicks.

Go ahead and replace your n75 valve. If it is indeed the problem, it will eventually get so slow (or fail completely) that you will be over boosting even on the stock tune. Besides the n75 valve is pretty cheap, and its easy preventative maintenance.

[Jezza]

Did you ever get this figured out OP?

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[keinmitleid]

Did you ever get this figured out OP?

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Judging by his post history, he got rid of the roc euro and it cleared up the issue.

I win.