Prospective CPO 2013 S4 Buyer

[sharkway]

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

I'm hoping to become a new owner of an Audi S4 by the end of this week. I currently drive a 2013 A4 2.0t quattro and seeing that my lease is about to end, I thought it was appropriate to register and seek advice from current owners.

The bind that I'm in is selection. I can only afford so much without breaking the bank so my search has narrowed down to a CPO 2013 S4 with 51k miles for $33,000. The carfax does prove that the maintenance was done with regularity however there is an accident listed. I know, BIG RED FLAG. After discussing with the dealership they assured me that it was not a major accident, no frame damage, perhaps a fender bender. Obviously I would like to purchase a car with a clean accident record but I don't really have much of a choice. And being that CPO cars can't be in major accidents, maybe I trust them... My second serious consideration is a CPO 2013 Infiniti G37 IPL coupe with 17k miles but the drawback is RWD and I live in the northeast. Third option is a 2015/2016 WRX STI but I'm turning 30 this November and I really want something that fits my age. If I was 25, no problem

So my question to you guys is (and thank you):

1. Is this a...shitty...deal? To me, 51k miles 2013 and an accident (I'll give the dealership the benefit of the doubt though some will label this as stupid) says move on, but I am in love with the B8.5 S4.
2. Should I be concerned about potential issues that arise near the 50k mile mark? Are there any that are particular to the B8 that appear around 50k miles? Perspective from those with over 50k miles would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

[Sceanzo]

I'd look for a different one. Infinitis are trash, STi is rice boy. Its plenty reliable at 50k. I just sold my 12' Stage 2 S4 with 57k and not a single issue.

[sharkway]

I'm guessing you'd look for a different solely due to the accident?

[Sceanzo]

Correct. ONLY because you don't know the extent of the damage and how well it was fixed. I Work at an anonymous dealer and we sell some garbage.

Try Carmax? Or private party. I just bought my b8.5 private party. Got a slamming deal on it. I checked with local Audi dealer to verify service records and ran a carfax. These cars aren't THAT rare so plenty for you to choose. Just make sure to get the options you want so you don't buy two like I did

[sharkway]

If the car isn't as advertised, they're subject to legal action. Would they take the risk just go get rid of one car?

CarMax doesn't have a footprint up here. I'm weary of private party but honestly, I just have no time to deal with the process. I have until the end of Sunday to pull the trigger.

[Senseless]

Get it inspected by a body guy. He'll be able to tell what happened and may discover other problems that went unreported. Even if it's not major, you can be sure the dealer knocked 10% off the trade in to the previous owner. So, negotiate with that in mind. Is it a 6mt? I hear these have been selling really fast.

[KnewJack]

I would shop around also. I got a 2013 for 35k with just 27k miles on it. You may find a lower mileage example for less money. Mine was not CPO however because it came with a Stop Tech brake upgrade which is aftermarket, hence the lower price.

[tk44189]

Definitely look elsewhere... Check Ohio dealers. I bought a CPO 2012 with 10K on it, had an accident with under $2500 damage. At 12k the rear floor carpeting caught fire because the heat shields were never replaced and the exhaust was bent upwards. Thank god for insurance and a slow fire department!!

[Sceanzo]

For the car to be CPO, all the body panels must be original. So we know at least that it isn't totaled and or China replacement crap. Just get a real good look at the paint work, look for orange peel, sanding marks, trash in the paint. As long as that's kosher and it doesn't pull it should be fine. Wrecks can just cause so much unwanted issues (noises, tire wear, etc) it's just easier not to deal with them. Sorry for lack of punctuation I've been drinking.

[sharkway]

Jesus, that is precisely what I want to avoid!

[sharkway]

Get it inspected by a body guy. He'll be able to tell what happened and may discover other problems that went unreported. Even if it's not major, you can be sure the dealer knocked 10% off the trade in to the previous owner. So, negotiate with that in mind. Is it a 6mt? I hear these have been selling really fast.

It's the dual-clutch auto. Fully loaded with all options including the sports differential. That's not a bad idea, perhaps I can find a quality shop near the dealership to inspect. From my understanding, this typically costs $300...

[sharkway]

I would shop around also. I got a 2013 for 35k with just 27k miles on it. You may find a lower mileage example for less money. Mine was not CPO however because it came with a Stop Tech brake upgrade which is aftermarket, hence the lower price.

That's a great deal. I'm more attracted to CPO for the peace of mind of extended warranty and "300 point" inspection...

[Sceanzo]

It's the dual-clutch auto. Fully loaded with all options including the sports differential. That's not a bad idea, perhaps I can find a quality shop near the dealership to inspect. From my understanding, this typically costs $300...

Just for a Pre-purchase inspection, shouldn't cost too much. We charge one hour of labor so around $100

[sharkway]

For the car to be CPO, all the body panels must be original. So we know at least that it isn't totaled and or China replacement crap. Just get a real good look at the paint work, look for orange peel, sanding marks, trash in the paint. As long as that's kosher and it doesn't pull it should be fine. Wrecks can just cause so much unwanted issues (noises, tire wear, etc) it's just easier not to deal with them. Sorry for lack of punctuation I've been drinking.

No worries. I'd have one myself if I didn't go overboard this past weekend.

- - - Updated - - -

Just for a Pre-purchase inspection, shouldn't cost too much. We charge one hour of labor so around $100

Wow that's cheaper than I thought. I will absolutely look into the PPI.

[sharkway]

Do you guys know of the longevity for the DCT? Or are the two not synonymous...

[sharkway]

Definitely look elsewhere... Check Ohio dealers. I bought a CPO 2012 with 10K on it, had an accident with under $2500 damage. At 12k the rear floor carpeting caught fire because the heat shields were never replaced and the exhaust was bent upwards. Thank god for insurance and a slow fire department!!

Jesus, that is precisely what I want to avoid!

I considered purchasing from out of state and having it delivered but the shipping cost puts me over the top.

[Sceanzo]

Do you guys know of the longevity for the DCT? Or are the two not synonymous...

The 13-up DSG (dual clutch transmission) has been shown to be the most reliable of the bunch 10,11,12. Keep the fluid and filter changed in it and you shouldn't have any issue.

[sharkway]

The 13-up DSG (dual clutch transmission) has been shown to be the most reliable of the bunch 10,11,12. Keep the fluid and filter changed in it and you shouldn't have any issue.

Thank you and everyone else for the timely responses. I'm still on the fence but hopefully I can reappear with a picture of an S4. To be continued...

[sharkway]

FYI https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1991/overview/

[KnewJack]

Looks clean! Like was said before see if a body shop can look it over.

Sucks the B8.5's don't have the 200mph speedo of the B8's. Bragging rights for those who believe a car will go as fast as it speedo says! Lol.

[bayonet14]

What damage was done during the accident - or was it just a fender bender?
If no damage to sub-frame - go for it
Also, use the fact the car has been in a accident to your negotiating benefit - also get a Credit Union to get you a pre-approved bank draft...DO NOT let the sales people know how much you have been pre-approved for - then go in there and make a offer below their asking (look at NADA and start at 2k above retail)(you know the dealer raked the previous owner over the coals as it was "wrecked")
Be firm and again use the knowledge it was in a accident (this limits the dealership prospective pool of buyers - why do you think they CPO'd it?....to make it more attractive)
Also, if you can find out how long this unit has been on the lot - once its goes over 60/90/180 days "they" wanna move it - also wait till the EOM....sales people have quotas .... they will be more inclined to take a reasonable offer to move a unit ;)

Forgot to add - do a NADA search of the prices for com-parables around the zip code of the dealership - use True Car - Car Guru in your search query...you can also use that info as a negation tactic on price / extras you can get the dealer to throw in ( your favor of the deal)

If you have a buddy - or make a friend that sells used cars (has auction site access)(manheim) to even get prices that a vehicle gets at auction - how long they have sat on a lot etc

[HeymyAudi]

DO NOT GET A G37 I traded that crap in to get my S4...

[marcmo60]

Traded in my 2007 B7 S4 for a 2013 B8.5 S4 with 24K miles about a month ago. I had to drive to Milwaukee to get it done but in the end I got the car, color and sport diff with CPO that I was looking for. I agree with the other posters, get a body shop pro to look it over -- it could be nothing or it could become a nightmare.

[lamarboards00]

I was in the same boat in October. Found a 2011 CPO in Atlanta with 40k miles for $31k. Rear end collision on the record, but everything seemed fine. Flew down to Atlanta, drove it back. 20k miles later, still no issues!

[jokingjimmy]

Do you enjoy gambling? Then buy a car with an accident. Unless you are talking with the actual people that were involved with either the accident or the ensuing repair, anyone you are talking to are guessing, even if it's educated guessing. Even taking it to a body shop is guessing - there could be very minor frame damage or bending that isn't noticeable on a cursory inspection.

You could get a gem or you could get a nightmare (regardless of an S4) with an accident car. And really you only save a couple grand for a 1 accident car over a non-accident car.

I wouldn't but you could be like some that it's ok, up to you.

[bpollock]

Personally, as someone who owned (and still owns) a CPO S4 that I purchased with 55K on it, I would be comfortable with this purchase. It is my understanding Audi is not able to issue a CPO to a car that has had major damage (e.g. body panels replaced).

I would use the accident to further negotiate down the price, and then consider selling the car as you get close to expiration of the CPO coverage.

[sharkway]

Hey guys,

Really appreciate the feedback. So busy at work so won't be able to reply to each post at the moment but I am trying to use the accident as leverage. Going back and forth with the salesman via email. He wants $34,000. CarGuru shows a market price of $37,000 for a cpo with 40k miles... These S4s really retain their value.

Thanks.

[Race Shooter]

Just because it shows an accident on carfax doesnt mean that there is any real damage at all. If its CPO, as others said, it could not have had body panels replaced or anything real major.

Personal story. My brother had a 20th Anniversary GTI that I recently helped him sell. It had an accident on Carfax. He had been lightly rear ended at a stop light. It required the rear bumper to be repainted due to scratching. That was all it was and you would never know if you didnt know it happened. It was listed simply as accident on Carfax.

Luckily we still had all the paperwork to show a buyer and it was not an issue. But I tell the story because Carfax doesnt differentiate between a serious accident with major work and simply a touch up paint.

If its CPO and you're having a hard time finding other options in your price range, I wouldnt bee too scared away, especially if you can get another independent inspection done.

[whiped]

$33k for an '13 S4 with 51k miles and an accident on record is a bit steep as per my research. If the accident is truly minor I wouldn't worry about it, the only reason I would avoid it is the price.

Sucks the B8.5's don't have the 200mph speedo of the B8's. Bragging rights for those who believe a car will go as fast as it speedo says! Lol.

What are you talking about? I had my B8.5 at ~190 MPH a few weekends ago. 200 is not that far-fetched.

Sure the analog speedometer spins past 160. (looks a little funny, or cool depending on how you look at it)
But, the digital one has no problem keeping up.

[osspasha]

I sold my 2013 A4, i test drove every single car and ended up buying 13' S4.

that being said, I bought mine certified pre-owned with 36k kms on it (22.5k miles) for 46k CAD (34.5k USD).

think about resale, when are you planning to sell it and estimate the mileage it will be at. selling an S4 with 80k+ miles in three years might be very difficult.

I wouldn't buy any of those car, definitely not a G37 or an STi

[sharkway]

What damage was done during the accident - or was it just a fender bender?
If no damage to sub-frame - go for it
Also, use the fact the car has been in a accident to your negotiating benefit - also get a Credit Union to get you a pre-approved bank draft...DO NOT let the sales people know how much you have been pre-approved for - then go in there and make a offer below their asking (look at NADA and start at 2k above retail)(you know the dealer raked the previous owner over the coals as it was "wrecked")
Be firm and again use the knowledge it was in a accident (this limits the dealership prospective pool of buyers - why do you think they CPO'd it?....to make it more attractive)
Also, if you can find out how long this unit has been on the lot - once its goes over 60/90/180 days "they" wanna move it - also wait till the EOM....sales people have quotas .... they will be more inclined to take a reasonable offer to move a unit ;)

Forgot to add - do a NADA search of the prices for com-parables around the zip code of the dealership - use True Car - Car Guru in your search query...you can also use that info as a negation tactic on price / extras you can get the dealer to throw in ( your favor of the deal)

If you have a buddy - or make a friend that sells used cars (has auction site access)(manheim) to even get prices that a vehicle gets at auction - how long they have sat on a lot etc

That's the big question. To what extent was the damage? I understand the requirements to become CPO however I don't fully trust dealerships. And this particular one isn't an Audi dealership. It's a used car dealership. Not sure how they even get to place their cars as CPO status. Very grey and a lot of uncertainty.

[sharkway]

Looks clean! Like was said before see if a body shop can look it over.

Sucks the B8.5's don't have the 200mph speedo of the B8's. Bragging rights for those who believe a car will go as fast as it speedo says! Lol.

There is a body shop 10 minutes away from the dealership that charges $70 for a 30 minute inspection. That would be ideal to come to a conclusion.

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DO NOT GET A G37 I traded that crap in to get my S4...

What didn't you like about it?

[HeymyAudi]

There is a body shop 10 minutes away from the dealership that charges $70 for a 30 minute inspection. That would be ideal to come to a conclusion.

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What didn't you like about it?

Transmission, suspension .. It was quick but no tuning ability.. I had HK sways and it was still horrible... Really lazy car.. The S4 is light years ahead of that Nissan Maxima


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[sharkway]

Right, that is ultimately the issue here. A lot of uncertainty. I do like gambling but given my poor win/loss record, perhaps this is a game I should avoid...

[sharkway]

Personally, as someone who owned (and still owns) a CPO S4 that I purchased with 55K on it, I would be comfortable with this purchase. It is my understanding Audi is not able to issue a CPO to a car that has had major damage (e.g. body panels replaced).

I would use the accident to further negotiate down the price, and then consider selling the car as you get close to expiration of the CPO coverage.

I am under the same impression regarding the Audi CPO issuance however this dealer, to my knowledge, isn't an Audi dealership. It's a used car dealership. Weeks Preowned in Danbury, CT...

[sharkway]

Just because it shows an accident on carfax doesnt mean that there is any real damage at all. If its CPO, as others said, it could not have had body panels replaced or anything real major.

Personal story. My brother had a 20th Anniversary GTI that I recently helped him sell. It had an accident on Carfax. He had been lightly rear ended at a stop light. It required the rear bumper to be repainted due to scratching. That was all it was and you would never know if you didnt know it happened. It was listed simply as accident on Carfax.

Luckily we still had all the paperwork to show a buyer and it was not an issue. But I tell the story because Carfax doesnt differentiate between a serious accident with major work and simply a touch up paint.

If its CPO and you're having a hard time finding other options in your price range, I wouldnt bee too scared away, especially if you can get another independent inspection done.

That's the other outlook that I'm trying to rest myself upon. Maybe it was just a fender bender. Even without the accident I still feel that this car is overpriced at $34,000 with 51k miles.

[sharkway]

$33k for an '13 S4 with 51k miles and an accident on record is a bit steep as per my research. If the accident is truly minor I wouldn't worry about it, the only reason I would avoid it is the price.



What are you talking about? I had my B8.5 at ~190 MPH a few weekends ago. 200 is not that far-fetched.

Sure the analog speedometer spins past 160. (looks a little funny, or cool depending on how you look at it)
But, the digital one has no problem keeping up.

Agreed, based on my research $34,000 for 51K miles, CPO or not, is a bit steep. But the market value of a 41k mile CPO S4 nearby is $37,000. Bit confused.

[sharkway]

I sold my 2013 A4, i test drove every single car and ended up buying 13' S4.

that being said, I bought mine certified pre-owned with 36k kms on it (22.5k miles) for 46k CAD (34.5k USD).

think about resale, when are you planning to sell it and estimate the mileage it will be at. selling an S4 with 80k+ miles in three years might be very difficult.

I wouldn't buy any of those car, definitely not a G37 or an STi

Right so ideally I would like a CPO 20-35k max mile S4 however my commute is ridiculously low at 5.6 miles roundtrip. Add 5 miles for lunch plus 30 miles/week on miscellaneous driving and I'm looking at roughly 4,000 miles/year. I will add an additional 2,000/year for unexpected driving which becomes 6,000 miles/year. This is another big reason why I'm considering such a high mileage used car.

If I didn't have an affinity for the S4, this wouldn't even cross my mind to be even considered.

[sharkway]

Transmission, suspension .. It was quick but no tuning ability.. I had HK sways and it was still horrible... Really lazy car.. The S4 is light years ahead of that Nissan Maxima


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Yeah my biggest gripe is the transmission. From what I've seen and read, the tranny is slowww.

[omegis83]

Agreed, based on my research $34,000 for 51K miles, CPO or not, is a bit steep. But the market value of a 41k mile CPO S4 nearby is $37,000. Bit confused.

Can't speak for the NJ area but I spent $34k on my 2013 S4 Prestige with no accidents and 36k miles this past December in TX.