~Project S4~ Backyard BIG clutch swap+ 2001 2.7t

[OllieOxenFree]

Hey everyone,

I've been lurking around here for about 1.5yrs now, About the time I bought my s4. I just never created an account because I always found the results I need through Google search and I'm not a sh*t talker so I never had a reason to post. Now is the time though.

This car is my triple unicorn. Not only is it my first audi, but also my first turbo and awd car. I spent a lot of time studying me.7 coding and made a tune for the car which has been a blast but is also the reason this thread exists. I've shredded my stock clutch and I'm blowing oil out of more gaskets than not.

I am making this thread as a way to document my progress for myself and hopefully provide some incite for others, whether learning with me or from my mistakes. I am by no means an Audi mechanic but am well rehearsed in backyard mechanics ;) I'm also going to use you all as my drive. I see too many of these cars come apart then get sold or never put back together. I don't want that to be me and I feel like having others pushing you to see updates can be go motivation and reinforcement.

Enough of that. Onto what need to be done:

~Clutch is shot~ This car will be a weekend warrior. I'm retiring it from the daily life so I can get away with putting some obnoxiously large,stiff clutch in it that will hold all the hp in the world because I don't care about daily drivability.
~Oil leaks ~ Everywhere!!!! Definitely going to need valve cover gaskets and probably a bunch of other smalls as well.
~Coil conversion kit~ The stock coils feel pretty weak as of late. Lots of misfires under heavy boost. This should straighten it out.
~Exhaust leak~ Sounds like its right at drivers side turbo from engine compartment but could be further down the line
~Routine maintenance~ Check timing belt / tensioners /water pump etc.
~This is the line that all s4 owners know about where their 2week clutch swap becomes a 3yr big turbo conversion...lol...As much as I would like to have this thing on the road quickly, you never know what i'll do once the engine is on the stand!!!

DAY 1
Disassembly: I got a few hours before dark to tear into the car last night.

Here are the last photos of the car before disassembly






My survival kit for disassembly of the unknown


This looks like it could have been a boost leak. Ziptie holding in what I believe is an IAT sensor



Too dark shutting her down for the night







Should be able to get a couple more hours in this afternoon! See you soon.

[AvantGuard]

I give you lots of credit for tackling that in the driveway !

[audacity]

I give you lots of credit for tackling that in the driveway !

and in the dark.

[xalents23]

Good luck, giving you props for doing the work yourself. You will learn a lot from doing it yourself.

[OllieOxenFree]

Thanx everyone for the encouragement. I raced dirt track stock cars and had an old mud truck when I was younger so ingenuity while laying in the dirt after dark tends to be the norm.
10yrs ago before kids and life's responsibilities kicked in:




Anyways, I got out of work today because our materials didn't get dropped on the job site so I put a few hours in on the car. Mind you the real feel is 95 outside and I'm using hand tools so I am moving relatively lazily.
To start today off with the bad, my Audi is no virgin. I am not the first man to penetrate the depths of her bonnet.She has definitely been rode hard and put away wet. I'm discovering a lot of missing bolts and clips along the way, as well as broken tabs on electrical connectors and cut wires. I guess it is to be expected with these cars that they have had major service by 130k, its just bothersome to me that they reassembled most of the harness with zip ties instead of factory bolts/clips.




In this picture you can see the cut wires and in the background you can see the power steering cooler line. With google search, I can see there is some type of sensor mounted off of that cooler, that mine does not have. I assume this sensor is what has been removed along with the harness cut. I just haven't figured out what this sensor is.


Slightly more oil than I would like to see out of the passengers intercooler. IDK though,you be the judge. I drove this thing for a year spiking at 21-22psi with know oil catch can or upgraded pcv setup, so I understand why this thing blows oil from a-hole to elbow.


On to the good news!!! The front clip is off. Intercoolers disconnected. Fuel lines are off. The majority of the wiring harness is off of the front and top of engine. Spider hose assembly out. I still need to disconnect alternator and figure out what I am doing with the a/c compressor. After that its about time for me to pull wheels and get underneath this thing.

[JVD]

I think your one cut wire by the PS cooler line is for the ambient air temp sensor.

[88ninety9]

I think your one cut wire by the PS cooler line is for the ambient air temp sensor.

I was thinking the same

[OllieOxenFree]

I think your one cut wire by the PS cooler line is for the ambient air temp sensor.

I was thinking the same

Thanx guys. That makes sense to me. Would be easy info to find if sensor was there to pull a number off of. I'm assuming it is purely a luxury and that the ecm does not rely on it for tuning because I have never seen a code in vag for it. I'll have to search deeper to make sure this statement is true

[QuinnsterKID]

Yea. Its the outside air temp. Nice progress. Youre going to learn a lot. Good luck!

[B501S4]

A/C compressor can be unbolted and dropped out of the way when popping the engine/trans out. No disconnecting lines in this process so no recharge of refrigerant or oil is needed. Plenty of room to work that way.


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[88ninety9]

Thanx guys. That makes sense to me. Would be easy info to find if sensor was there to pull a number off of. I'm assuming it is purely a luxury and that the ecm does not rely on it for tuning because I have never seen a code in vag for it. I'll have to search deeper to make sure this statement is true

No need. Mine is torn apart, I took the liberty for you. One is for the aux fan, other for ambient temp sensor. Mind not the mess

[Nollywood]

Thanx guys. That makes sense to me. Would be easy info to find if sensor was there to pull a number off of. I'm assuming it is purely a luxury and that the ecm does not rely on it for tuning because I have never seen a code in vag for it. I'll have to search deeper to make sure this statement is true

I don't think climate control works without the outside ambient temperature sensor. It feeds the climate control module external temperature, and if it's below 5 degrees C, the compressor is disabled.

I have no idea what happens if the sensor is broken, missing, or open circuit.

[audacity]

why did you take the harness off the engine. you can just pop the entire harness out with the engine all you do is unplug the harness at the ecu and pull it out. not you'll need to remember where all those go. and you'll have a much harder time diagnosing any problems that may arise when you reassemble.

[OllieOxenFree]

why did you take the harness off the engine. you can just pop the entire harness out with the engine all you do is unplug the harness at the ecu and pull it out. not you'll need to remember where all those go. and you'll have a much harder time diagnosing any problems that may arise when you reassemble.

Ya, I seen after the fact that it could be done that way. Anything that wasn't obvious is labeled with tape and marker and I took photos of every electrical connector I pulled. I will be doing the coil pack conversion as well, so most of what I took off will be coming out anyways. This is my first time pulling one of these engines and instead of reading instructions, I just started cranking away I don't disagree with what you are saying but I think I will be alright either way!

[OllieOxenFree]

Well it was a short lived evening for me. Nearly no daylight left after getting home from working late and shoving my dinner down as quickly as possible. I had to get some kind of head start on this weekend though. So, the cv bolts are broke free and the car is up on stands. Tomorrow i'll be able to knock out the underside and should be ready to pull her other than the lack of a cherry picker. Not sure, but I may just go buy a harbor freighter to get me through.

Man those cv bolts are in there.... not enough


That'll do it!!!


Wrecked another socket. Sears is gonna hate me




Oil caked everywhere
IMG]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/ollie_a/100_2919.jpg[/IMG]


Cracked rotor..


...and no pads


So overall more carnage as usual.

[vavJETTAw36]

The alan hex style axle bolts are way better. Never had any issues with them.


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[OllieOxenFree]

Can someone link me to a thread that has good info on b5 vs b7 pressure plate conversion. Seems that a lot of ppl talk about it but I'm having a rough time finding any real pros/cons to it. I had plans of buying the billet ttv flywheel anyways then I seen one posted in classified section that is the b5 version from ttv. He is asking 350 for it which is a nice savings, I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything big by not going b7 route. Thanx in advance guys!

[OllieOxenFree]

Small update to show off some shiny stuff! Got TTV flywheel in today. Thanx to incontrol7 for the deal. I have a cherry picker and load leveler ordered and on the way. Should be here Wednesday so I can get the engine the rest of the way out.




I still need to order a clutch and pp but I am having a tough time making a decision. Can I get some recommendations?
Things to consider when making recommendations:
~Car is no longer a daily. Not concerned with daily drivability
~I am rough on shit. This clutch will see anti lag launches.
~Car will probably make a couple trips to the drag strip a year.
~k03s won't be there forever so assume I'll be making as much hp/tq as possible on a stock bottom end(leaning towards srm rs6's or an stk setup)

[incontrol7]

Get the B7 rs4 clutch and pp. They are like $130 on rock auto if they are in stock. The B7 pp has more clamping force so even with a stock disc it is supposed to work well with closer to stock power.

[OllieOxenFree]

Get the B7 rs4 clutch and pp. They are like $130 on rock auto if they are in stock. The B7 pp has more clamping force so even with a stock disc it is supposed to work well with closer to stock power.

You clearly missed most of what I said...

I still need to order a clutch and pp but I am having a tough time making a decision. Can I get some recommendations?
Things to consider when making recommendations:
~Car is no longer a daily. Not concerned with daily drivability
~I am rough on shit. This clutch will see anti lag launches.
~Car will probably make a couple trips to the drag strip a year.
~k03s won't be there forever so assume I'll be making as much hp/tq as possible on a stock bottom end(leaning towards srm rs6's or an stk setup)

[christianb5s4]

You're going to find a lot of positive reviews and people recommending the AMD stage 3 clutch, I personally run a Clutchmasters stage 4 6 puck and love it so far (another common, well regarded clutch).

[OllieOxenFree]

You're going to find a lot of positive reviews and people recommending the AMD stage 3 clutch, I personally run a Clutchmasters stage 4 6 puck and love it so far (another common, well regarded clutch).

You are right. I've seen the AMD stage 3 a lot around here. I'm kind of leaning towards the 4. I don't care about daily driving and I want to be able to beat it. Car will either be launching or high gear pulls. I don't live in the city so no red lighting or traffic. I'm really considering unsprung.

[WEBER]

Small update to show off some shiny stuff! Got TTV flywheel in today. Thanx to incontrol7 for the deal. I have a cherry picker and load leveler ordered and on the way. Should be here Wednesday so I can get the engine the rest of the way out.




I still need to order a clutch and pp but I am having a tough time making a decision. Can I get some recommendations?
Things to consider when making recommendations:
~Car is no longer a daily. Not concerned with daily drivability
~I am rough on shit. This clutch will see anti lag launches.
~Car will probably make a couple trips to the drag strip a year.
~k03s won't be there forever so assume I'll be making as much hp/tq as possible on a stock bottom end(leaning towards srm rs6's or an stk setup)

I've got about 400mi on a TTV B7 RS4 flywheel with a JHM stg 4 B7 RS4 pp/disc, pedal is light, moderately grabby, definitely a daily driver setup. I'm still base tuned on RS6 hybrids so I've been nice to it during break in, but I think the setup will do the the job.

Past experience with Kevlar faced discs is not the best choose for abuse. Find something metallic on both sides.


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[incontrol7]

ahhh, i did miss what you were saying. You still want the b7 RS4 pressure plate though, the extra clamping force will help a ton. Not sure which disc would be best for you though.

[Monty23]

Which TTV flywheel is that? B7 RS4 style or a B5 style?
I don't think you can mix and match clutch kits between the two styles, or can you?

[Bordom]

Which TTV flywheel is that? B7 RS4 style or a B5 style?
I don't think you can mix and match clutch kits between the two styles, or can you?

He has the regular style

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[OllieOxenFree]

Which TTV flywheel is that? B7 RS4 style or a B5 style?
I don't think you can mix and match clutch kits between the two styles, or can you?

It is the 0608 which is the standard style. I contacted TTV, they said this one won't take the b7 pp. Not really a big deal tho because I wasn't trying to go the cheap route with rock auto clutch disc anyways. Most of the aftermarket PPs seem to have upgraded sac sets similar to the b7 style. I need to contact AMD and have a talk, but I'm preemptively going with their stage 4 kit.

[OllieOxenFree]

Slightly more progress to report. Progress has been pretty slow. Life is busy outside AudiLand. I ordered a cherry picker and leveler offline because there was a good sale. Took it 2 weeks to get here but the price was right.



Unfortunately, it arrived a wheel short...


...So after calling them and waiting 2 more weeks, they sent me 6 more wheels???


Anyways, now that is all sorted out and I had a little time to turn some more wrenches.

DPs dropped and driveshaft allens are out. Driveshaft still seems pretty stuck on there. Needs a couple mallet wacks or something.


Trans and engine mounts unbolted. Time to get out the picker.


Coming up off the mounts



So as usual I'm out of daylight. Good new is that I should be about 15-20 mins from having this thing on the ground. I just can't see what going on in the dark. I don't want to yank on any wires I missed or mess anything else up. Hopefully I can find a little daylight this week to finish.

[incontrol7]

He has the regular style

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

I thought you could just do some slight modifications with the dowels?

[OllieOxenFree]

Well its out of the car and in the garage!





Found that exhaust leak that was driving me crazy. Nut was missing. Metal gaskets is burnt up on that corner too.


Now Its down to buying parts and making coming to a decision on what to do about turbos. As much as I would like to put this thing on the road before the snow flies, I'm pretty certain that I'll be mad at myself if I go back together with k03s.

[Corradovolksb]

Looking good so far. You should get rid of those crazy looking downpipes and upgrade to new style SSAC ones. I recommend installing SRM k24s. They have been great for me so far and make really good power on 91oct and even better power on E85.

[OllieOxenFree]

Looking good so far. You should get rid of those crazy looking downpipes and upgrade to new style SSAC ones. I recommend installing SRM k24s. They have been great for me so far and make really good power on 91oct and even better power on E85.

Ya, isn't that pipe setup horrible looking. This isn't factory right? I haven't seen enough stock dps to know the difference but this doesn't look right. Will need downpipes anyways with any form of turbo upgrade.

I've followed a few b5 builds and what concerns me with the SRM setup is that I've read multiple places that fitment wasn't spot on and a little more than average modification was needed. Don't get me wrong, I know there will be small hurdles no matter what but I seem to keep reading good things about the tial fitment and we all know tial has the name to back it. Hard to come to a conclusion whether the price margin between the 2 is justifiable. I'm not trying to start another what turbo should I run thread either. I know whats out there its just hard to make a decision based off of graphs charts and other ppls opinions vs. the ass dyno where you can actually feel the difference.

e85 is definitive. There is a station down the road from me. I'm going to run stock bottom end for now so I won't be seeing full potential from either turbo kit but I'm thinking I can go with a conservative e85 tune in place of going water meth on pump gas and still be able to keep somewhat reasonable IATs

[Corradovolksb]

Hay they are not stock looking so they could be a set someone had made because the factory cats failed. Either way you should upgrade them.

Yah I know there are a lot of threads out there where people have had issues I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My install went great with no issues and so far I have around 15,000 miles on them at 26psi. Tial's are a great option and if you have the money to spend on them they are the best option. My friend has a set of 770's for sale.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/5704503832.html

Lower boost and E85 with tial turbos on a stock block will make it a really fun car. Do you have a tuner in mind yet?

[Jism]

Empty the first set cats and call it a day. Gained 2x 10HP on a RS4 B5. Left the second cats alone to pass MOT n stuff.

Otherwise go for miltek or whatever exhaust there is for it. Anything bigger then stock does gains.

[OllieOxenFree]

Hay they are not stock looking so they could be a set someone had made because the factory cats failed. Either way you should upgrade them.

Yah I know there are a lot of threads out there where people have had issues I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My install went great with no issues and so far I have around 15,000 miles on them at 26psi. Tial's are a great option and if you have the money to spend on them they are the best option. My friend has a set of 770's for sale.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/pts/5704503832.html

Lower boost and E85 with tial turbos on a stock block will make it a really fun car. Do you have a tuner in mind yet?

Good to hear you had luck with SRMs. Im not opposed to them just don't want complications. I've been playing with me.7 stuff for close to 2yrs now. I think I'm going to try tuning myself. If I can get the fueling, MAF and MAP scaled without going crazy then I'll be fine. To me these cars seem easy to tune at WOT. Its the map scaling that is a battle. If I'm feeling overwhelmed I'll have to have it tuned but haven't a clue who to turn to for that. I know there are a good few of these cars running around up around Cleveland. That is prob where I will have to go for tuning.

[Corradovolksb]

I totally understand, these cars are a pain in the ass as it is without having to worry about pulling the motor more than you have to haha. If you need help with tuning let me know and I will try and answer any questions you might have along the way.

[OllieOxenFree]

Separated the trans today. I've been waiting to see how bad that slipping clutch disc is. It is definitely worn but I've seen far worse carnage inside the walls of a bell housing.




Is this flywheel supposed to have movement? Doesn't seem normal to me -.-
http://vid80.photobucket.com/albums/...a/100_3037.mp4