Help me decide a realistic power goal for auto-x and track

[bikerbob951]

Hey guys,

I'm planning the path ahead for the car right now, and I'm stuck trying to decide what to do for more power. Some background on the car, it's main purpose is split equally between weekend cruising and Auto-x / track days. Currently it's APR stg.1 91 octane tuned KO3, 99 AEB, exhaust, intake, blah blah... decently quick. However, because of my partially gutted interior and a few other things, I'm forced to run in Street Mod (SM) for auto-x, and those of you that are familiar with SCCA classing should be laughing right about now, because that means I'm running against fully-worked STI's, EVO, and so on.

The SM class is more-or-less wide open as far as tuning, and engine swaps are allowed as long as they are from the same manufacturer as the original car. So my question: if I had to make reliable power on a budget, is it smarter to go with a BT setup, or swap in a V8? V8 swap is enticing, but I can't find a reliable power figure for those motors, and it seems like there's not much room to grow once you've made the swap.

Here's a pic just for fun. Coilovers, front splitter, and roll bar will be done by spring.

[Dan[FN]6262]

EErieB6 would beat out STi's, Evo's, and even a few Vettes with his heavy ass B6 at AutoX events.

His engine was/is all stock with a Eliminator GTRS, 630cc injectors, ER Sport FMIC.

FX300

Dunlop Direzzas

4:1 center diff <- this made a huge difference with handling

H&R Bilstein spring and shock combo

Aftermarket sways, I can't remember which brand.


My friend Jarod bought it from EErieB6 a few years ago. It's fun as hell on twisty mountain roads.

[bikerbob951]

EErieB6 would beat out STi's, Evo's, and even a few Vettes with his heavy ass B6 at AutoX events.

His engine was/is all stock with a Eliminator GTRS, 630cc injectors, ER Sport FMIC.

FX300

Dunlop Direzzas

4:1 center diff <- this made a huge difference with handling

H&R Bilstein spring and shock combo

Aftermarket sways, I can't remember which brand.


My friend Jarod bought it from EErieB6 a few years ago. It's fun as hell on twisty mountain roads.

Hmm, so with a GTRS I'd be in the 270-320WHP range, correct? I like that I'd still have a usable powerband with reasonably low lag, that's pretty important to me. 4:1 center diff is definitely on my list. I've got Hotchkis sways front and rear, huge improvement. Was he full interior? I wonder what class he ran, I'm guessing at least SM since he was running a non-stock turbo.

So it looks like BT is an option, would probably be cheaper than a V8 swap too. I know tuning for an AEB will be a bit more difficult though, who makes a good tune for an elim / GT28?

[Dan[FN]6262]

He was full interior, beside removing the rear seats and spare for the events. It was his weekend car and kept in very great condition. I do not know what class he was in though.

Tuning 557 ECU isn't that difficult. Just way different than 7.5

With quality supporting mods, a good tune, and meth injection you would be in that range.

Maestro is a quality tuning product, but you have to know what you're doing to really utilize it.

Also, a lot of people don't really run a large enough MAF. You'd want to run a B6 S4 MAF and housing.

[Avant Nate]

I've always thought a good auto-x setup would be a efr t25 6258. Do you have e85?

[bikerbob951]

He was full interior, beside removing the rear seats and spare for the events. It was his weekend car and kept in very great condition. I do not know what class he was in though.

Tuning 557 ECU isn't that difficult. Just way different than 7.5

With quality supporting mods, a good tune, and meth injection you would be in that range.

Maestro is a quality tuning product, but you have to know what you're doing to really utilize it.

Also, a lot of people don't really run a large enough MAF. You'd want to run a B6 S4 MAF and housing.

Is Maestro such a package that only qualified tuners can effectively use it? Turn-in Concepts is right around the corner from me, with an AWD dyno. They are no slouches and build top-notch racecars, but what are the odds they can deal with my car? Or is there someone that can tune my ecu via Maestro remotely?

Also, currently I also have a 100 octane APR tune that I've never used. Could that somehow be used or modified to run a bigger turbo, maybe even E85 as Nate mentions below?

I've always thought a good auto-x setup would be a efr t25 6258. Do you have e85?

That's a pretty good idea, I hadn't considered E85 yet because I was hoping for an off-the-shelf tune. But, if Maestro is in the future, could the car be tuned to run E85? Also, I dig the EFR 6258, but where can I get a manifold that has a T25 or T4 flange?


Thanks for the help guys. I know this info is out there, but I get lost in the data, it's nice to have a direct conversation about this stuff.

[redline380]

Don't get Maestro on AEB. Dan will probably disagree with me though.


Something I've noticed in my own car after adding big sways is how much tire slippage I get now. I'm only at 320awhp, but an aggressive turn will yield plenty of slippage if I am under boost. And I have good tires too. I would definitely do the 4:1 mod, which I do not have, and possibly look into a LSD. Yes, I know none are available but word is a 944 LSD can be made to fit.

Don't get a V8, you'll want the lightness of the 4 banger. Get something fast spooling and be on your way.

[Wrath And Tears]

I don't know if any of these are the right LSD, but http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php...acturers_id=50. I remember awhile back they had one for our transmission but it was $5k. Also you could be talking about making the rear diff LSD so those wouldn't even work in that case.

[redline380]

I don't know if any of these are the right LSD, but http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php...acturers_id=50. I remember awhile back they had one for our transmission but it was $5k. Also you could be talking about making the rear diff LSD so those wouldn't even work in that case.

Yeah, I was talking about rear.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...added-to-my-S4

[Wrath And Tears]

Man with how cheap they got the part from.... ebay.... It sure seems like an awesome mod to do.

[bikerbob951]

Don't get Maestro on AEB. Dan will probably disagree with me though.


Something I've noticed in my own car after adding big sways is how much tire slippage I get now. I'm only at 320awhp, but an aggressive turn will yield plenty of slippage if I am under boost. And I have good tires too. I would definitely do the 4:1 mod, which I do not have, and possibly look into a LSD. Yes, I know none are available but word is a 944 LSD can be made to fit.

Don't get a V8, you'll want the lightness of the 4 banger. Get something fast spooling and be on your way.

I have noticed the same about tire slippage, especially when in a hard turn, like what you'd encounter in auto-x. I'm on H&R sport springs and Bilsteins from 2008 though, so that might have something to do with it. That being said, the 4:1 mod is definitely in my sights for next year.

I'm glad to hear a lot of folks in favor of keeping the 1.8T, the V8 sounds nice and sounds good on paper, but it doesn't seem like it will provide the output I'm looking for, not to mention the headache of making the swap with DBC.

[Dan[FN]6262]

Don't get Maestro on AEB. Dan will probably disagree with me though.

I agree with this, actually. It would be better if you put the money that Maestro costs towards a standalone option.

Most people do not want to take the time to learn how to tune 5.5, it's data sample rate sucks dicks. It's not accurate, not like 7.5.

If you REALLY wanted to go Maestro and keep it somewhat stockish, I'd recommend a swap to 7.5 ECU and wiring harness. But at that point you might as well have went standalone anyways.

[bikerbob951]

I agree with this, actually. It would be better if you put the money that Maestro costs towards a standalone option.

Most people do not want to take the time to learn how to tune 5.5, it's data sample rate sucks dicks. It's not accurate, not like 7.5.

If you REALLY wanted to go Maestro and keep it somewhat stockish, I'd recommend a swap to 7.5 ECU and wiring harness. But at that point you might as well have went standalone anyways.

So, I know the square root of zero when it comes to standalone, which one is a good option and how do I go about doing my research? Standalone ECUs piggyback on the stock ECU, correct? And they give you full, unlocked, terrifying control over everything, but a capable tuner with a dyno could tune it, right?

[Dan[FN]6262]

Correct.

I believe you do have to run your stock ecu for gauge cluster control, if you were to use something like Mega Squirt 3, everyone knows how to tune it. MegaSquirt even makes a Plug and Play box for the AEB, IIRC. MS3 is pretty decent, but there are other standalones like Vipec, which I think is called Link now(?), that works with CANBUS.

That's about all I know. Eventually I will be going MS3 standalone, but Maestro has been working out great for me so far.


Oh, and you'll definitely want one of these.

[bikerbob951]

Correct.

I believe you do have to run your stock ecu for gauge cluster control, if you were to use something like Mega Squirt 3, everyone knows how to tune it. MegaSquirt even makes a Plug and Play box for the AEB, IIRC. MS3 is pretty decent, but there are other standalones like Vipec, which I think is called Link now(?), that works with CANBUS.

That's about all I know. Eventually I will be going MS3 standalone, but Maestro has been working out great for me so far.


Oh, and you'll definitely want one of these.

Thanks Dan, that's great info. I think I know which direction I'll head with tuning, standalone seems like it might be my best option.

[nunya]

Here is a rear LSD for sale for $1200.

http://forums.quattroworld.com/class...gs/47663.phtml