Stacked OEM ECU tune with APR DSG tune on an '14 Audi 3.0 TFSI B8.5

[abamfo]

I'm currently running my stock ECU (EDIT: NOW Revo Stage 2 93) stacked with a piggy (EDIT: THIS IS REMOVED BUT THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS) with the CTS Turbo SC pulley and the APR DL 501 TCU (8K9 927 156 P / 0005).

Problem is that in S and manual (with auto upshift) I get a slight hang-up / delay from 2-3 (changing at 7k RPM) and 1->2 (changing at 6,700-6,800 RPM), as opposed to the RPM figures advertised on the APR website

APR any thoughts??

[BlownOne]

If you tuned the Trans, why not get a real tune for the engine? You will still get td1 for drivetrain modifications regardless at this point...

[abamfo]

If you tuned the Trans, why not get a real tune for the engine? You will still get td1 for drivetrain modifications regardless at this point...

I've already got (paid for) an EPL ECU tune but it does not seem to be working (EDIT: I have now gone back to my old Revo tune)

My problem is that I don't really have any issues shifting when I shift earlier using the paddles or generally at all when the RPMs are 6.5k or lower.

Just wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this with mixing an APR DSG tune (156 P) with another tuners ECU tune (551 D).

[Sean@APR]

I've already got (paid for) an EPL ECU tune but it does not seem to be working (see video below), so I thought I'd try out the CW system.
https://youtu.be/pWtkJr_kPkI

My problem is that I don't really have any issues shifting when I shift earlier using the paddles or generally at all when the RPMs are 6.5k or lower. I'm waiting to get a new file from EPL and then I can check if this problem is related to the CW,

Just wanted to know what people thought / whether this looked fine or not. The one thing you can't portray in a video is the feel from the car.

You don't happen to know what the max RPM for a B8.5 is in first gear and beyond by chance? Or whether this should actually be shifting at 6900 RPM in Manual?

There isn't actually a "shift RPM". There's an RPM that the transmission is told to begin shifting. With a matching ECU and TCU, that will result in the new gear being selected right at 6900. But, with a different ECU side (stock + sensor cheating device in this case), the predictive bit in the shifts is going to be incorrect. Additionally, since you've got stock ECU software, you have the stock limiter that it is likely to drill.

[abamfo]

There isn't actually a "shift RPM". There's an RPM that the transmission is told to begin shifting. With a matching ECU and TCU, that will result in the new gear being selected right at 6900. But, with a different ECU side (stock + sensor cheating device in this case), the predictive bit in the shifts is going to be incorrect. Additionally, since you've got stock ECU software, you have the stock limiter that it is likely to drill.

Thanks so much for your input Sean... and look the reality is you were right, the stock ECU was the issue before with the CW unit as it killed the transition or "drilled"... I have put that ASIDE and gone back to my old Revo ECU tune with the APR DSG, which work in combination very very (especially with launch control) EXCEPT for some shifts at full throttle. I have a dual pulley coming soon and need to get the gear changes 100% working and smooth.

1. I can't seem to ever change in Sport mode higher than 7k RPM (rather than 7.1k RPM) from 2 gear onwards and the change from 1-2 is normally 6.75k RPM (rather than 6.9k RPM) but 1->2 is smooth and fast so I can't complain! The problem is that with the change from 2->3 the car feels likes its still climbing in power at 7k RPM but then changes early and you can feel the loss of acceleration / smoothness, which is my biggest concern
2. On the other hand, in Manual it does sometimes venture to 7.15k RPM but hesitates on the rev match for gear 3.

Not sure what to do here but I have linked three videos which if you watch in slow motion, can easily see and hear the 2->3 change in both Sport and Manual (and the odd shake at max RPM in Manual mode)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGW6RUWOWy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f7885xkzdc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0TkgWbNn-Y


Sean, is my DL 501 tune (8K9 927 156 P / 0005) 100% capable of changing at 7,150+ RPM in D/S with all else permitting with the Revo ECU tune??

Is it possible to tell the TCU to begin shifting at 6.9k RPM in 1st gear and 7.15k RPM thereafter?

Just to be clear, I've tried the EPL and Revo DSG tunes and the APR is by far the best, especially with regard to smoothness and launch control selectability

[abamfo]

Revo have just confirmed that their ECU tune has a max RPM of 7,200... so something else is triggering the APR DSG tune to "begin shifting"... any ideas?

[Sean@APR]

Revo have just confirmed that their ECU tune has a max RPM of 7,200... so something else is triggering the APR DSG tune to "begin shifting"... any ideas?

The ECU doesn't "trigger" the shift. The TCU decides to shift and controls the entire process.

If we reduce the lead time on the shift, you can end up drilling the limiter and loosing power as a result. It's a fine balancing act and there is no perfect answer. We set the lead in where we set it based on extensive testing and we still had to adjust it a couple times because people hit the ECU rev limit during shifts.

Unfortunately, after as much as we've been through with that, we're not really willing to tinker with it on a one off basis.

[abamfo]

The ECU doesn't "trigger" the shift. The TCU decides to shift and controls the entire process.

If we reduce the lead time on the shift, you can end up drilling the limiter and loosing power as a result. It's a fine balancing act and there is no perfect answer. We set the lead in where we set it based on extensive testing and we still had to adjust it a couple times because people hit the ECU rev limit during shifts.

Unfortunately, after as much as we've been through with that, we're not really willing to tinker with it on a one off basis.

Thanks Sean, I understand the lead time issue as I used to hit the limiter sometimes with my old Revo file as they don't allow auto upshift in manual. Is there any chance that the 156 P unit is different to the other DL501 units which were R&D'd or are they all identical? And are there many people running the APR DSG tune on a B8.5 156 P / 0005 unit? To be honest, it's not just the 7k limit change, it feels to me that there is a strong jerk / delay at that gear shift. If it was smooth acceleration from 2-3 then I'd be happy with it but simply it feels like something isn't right, especially in comparison to the 1-2 change which is quick and smooth (albeit below 6,900).

Are there any data points that I could log which could show you what is going on in order to confirm that everything is functioning 100% or something which my specific setup would highlight which may be forcing the shift early?

Just want to make sure I rule out all idiosyncratic problems before I make a decision to keep the tune or not.

Did all seem fine with the DSG guy on the videos I posted? Especially, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0TkgWbNn-Y

[abamfo]

Are there specific parameters which we should know about that may mean that my car (or anyone in this position) would or wouldn't shift at the advertised RPMs??