Valvetrain question

[chain_slappins4]

Hey folks, I'm trying to figure something out, and wanted to bounce my "logic" off of you guys.

I bought the S4 a few months back, and when I bought it, the p.o. said that the motor had a tap, after hearing it, it's definitely a rap in the head, passenger side, #7 or #8 cylinder. Now the tap is steady with RPM, increasing and decreasing accordingly...

Now from my experience ( I've been building small block Chevy and Ford mortars for years), a tap like that , sounds like a valve tap. I'll be the first to admit, I don't know squat about audi motors, but I am learning quick...lol.

So my thinking is this, since it's normal your normal pushrod motor, it doesn't suffer from the valve float a traditional motor does, but don't these motors still have lifters and rocker arms?

At first I thought Ithink was a timing chain issue that you see most S' suffering from, but I don't think this is the case with mine..

There are no codes in the computer, not really lacking any power, and there isn't the start up rattle. Just the steady tap..

What are the odds that a rocker/valve came out of adjustment? Are they even adjustable? I would have to think they are..or maybe a lifter is on its way out?

Thoughts?

Mark

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

Bump.... anyone?

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[jmcS4]

I'm dealing with a similar issue i thought was a valve train issue. tapping on the passenger head. BUT i traced the sound to timing cover. its very pronounced at the top of the cylinder head but its throwing any codes at all.

IF its a finger roll/rocker arm the noise would get louder as you rev the engine. i realized i didn't have valve train issues when i put the parking brake on and had the car in reverse, i slowly let the clutch out and put load on the timing system/chains and the noise went away. that told me a tensioner was failing. now I'm saving for a full timing kit :(

[chain_slappins4]

Yea, mine is different, it's consistent through out the entire rpm range...

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

Btw.. germanautoparts.com has a complete timing kits dirt cheap, and they are all upgraded oem parts. I just bought the complete control arm kit, uppers and lowers for the front for 389.00 with all new hardware...and they are 1 day away by ups...

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[jmcS4]

Yea, mine is different, it's consistent through out the entire rpm range...

but does it get louder or quieter when the revs go up. mine can be heard throughout the rev range as well but the higher it gets the faster it gets but it smooths out sound wise, although it still there

[chain_slappins4]

It may get a bit louder through the revs, but the tempo if you will, is what stays even with the revs, it does not get any better with higher runs, although at idle I have to admit it's a tad bit quieter.. but it's not a rattle or slap.. it's a very pronounced tap, you could set a damn watch to it

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[TarlCabot]

It may get a bit louder through the revs, but the tempo if you will, is what stays even with the revs, it does not get any better with higher runs, although at idle I have to admit it's a tad bit quieter.. but it's not a rattle or slap.. it's a very pronounced tap, you could set a damn watch to it

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

these engines uppers are noisy and seem to be less when HOT vs cold... could be normal

[chain_slappins4]

I'll shoot a video of motion when I get back to my shop

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

Tempature does not seem to make any difference.. if I pull the valve cover off, will I be able to see anything with the rocker arms and lifters? Or are they hidden.?

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[TarlCabot]

its possible.....

[chain_slappins4]

Oh my.. I'm kind of speechless lol.. there can be nothing simple with this monster..

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[chain_slappins4]

I don't even think I could fit my fat finger in there to wiggle a rocker let alone figure out which one is tapping lol

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[chain_slappins4]

I'm already having nightmares and I'm not even asleep yet!!

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[Slow4]

What are the odds that a rocker/valve came out of adjustment? Are they even adjustable? I would have to think they are..or maybe a lifter is on its way out?

Thoughts?

Mark

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

If your valve is out of adjustment then it would lead to timing related issues.

I had a steady tapping on mine before I knew I had valve damage on the exhaust side of the heads.

You're local right? PM JimmyBonesS4 to see if he can help you diagnose the tapping noise. Like I said earlier, I went through a series of DIY fix-it's before going to Jimmy and discovering I had waaaay worse issues.

GL.


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[chain_slappins4]

It depends on where local is, my shop is in Metuchen, next town over from edison.. I sent Jimmy a pm, hopefully he gets back to me soon, and he some time available soon to help me figure out what's wrong with it.. I'd much rather pay someone from here for their time , then give my money to bell audi.

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[Slow4]

It depends on where local is, my shop is in Metuchen, next town over from edison.. I sent Jimmy a pm, hopefully he gets back to me soon, and he some time available soon to help me figure out what's wrong with it.. I'd much rather pay someone from here for their time , then give my money to bell audi.

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

Hmm, I might have put my foot in my mouth. Weren't you at a BBQ recently down here in the DMV? I could've sworn I saw your name when I scrolled through the thread.

I was up in Edison back in May to pick up my Allroad from Bell Audi.

Jimmy is a good guy, he was the one who worked on my Avant when it sh*t bricks back in 2015. I hope your issues are a lot simpler than mine.


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[chain_slappins4]

Ahhh, no worries man, I should have asked before I sent him a pm.. didn't mean to bother him.. yeah I was supposed to go to the BBQ in VA, but the S had a ball joint issue that I didn't get finished in time...

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

Now I need to find a Jimmy that's local to me lol

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[TarlCabot]

if i were to have a re-do, i would have just driven my car up there and took a plane back.... then vs to pick it up when ready

JimmyBonesS4

[jakeoboy67]

these engines uppers are noisy and seem to be less when HOT vs cold... could be normal

they are noisy (valve train noise), yes but they don't tap or click loudly

[chain_slappins4]

Can you run these motors with the valve covers off? Or will it roast it in the first few seconds

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[chain_slappins4]

if i were to have a re-do, i would have just driven my car up there and took a plane back.... then vs to pick it up when ready

JimmyBonesS4

Hey man, if Jimmy is willing to work on it... anything is a possibility.. DC is but a 200 mile drive for me.. I can make that in about 2 hours if I take my time heh

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[jakeoboy67]

Can you run these motors with the valve covers off? Or will it roast it in the first few seconds

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I wonder how much oil covers the upper chains at idle

I would not run it without valve covers

[chain_slappins4]

I wonder how much oil covers the upper chains at idle

I would not run it without valve covers

Then how am.i supposed to find out which valve is making the noise.. I doubt I could just wiggle the rockers... can't be that easy!!!

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[jakeoboy67]

Then how am.i supposed to find out which valve is making the noise.. I doubt I could just wiggle the rockers... can't be that easy!!!

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

pushrod engine rockers are SO easy to reach lol

[chain_slappins4]

Yes sir... that's what I'm used to working on!!! But this monster is am animal unto itself!!

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[jakeoboy67]

Yes sir... that's what I'm used to working on!!! But this monster is am animal unto itself!!

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I love the engineering behind those audi chain timing systems

[chain_slappins4]

I love the engineering behind those audi chain timing systems

A little over engineered if you ask me...

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[Slow4]

Can you run these motors with the valve covers off? Or will it roast it in the first few seconds

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If you want oil all over the inside of your engine

Then how am.i supposed to find out which valve is making the noise.. I doubt I could just wiggle the rockers... can't be that easy!!!

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

Put flathead screwdriver against the valve cover that's making noise and put your ear to the end, keep trying till you locate the tap.

If you want, change out the oil and put in thicker oil like 5weight instead of 0w-40 to see if the tapping goes away; this might mask the noise if it's an ACTUAL valve/timing related issues.

As for the "wiggle", the cams are torqued down pretty tightly and linked via chains/tensioned so there's really no wiggle room for rocker/valve play. If you have a cam tensioner tool, you can check if it's aligned and if not, your timing might be off but that process leads into bigger things...

EDiT:

Have you checked your oil level when warm? Low oil in our engines can also cause tapping noises because not enough oil is being pushed into areas (pressurized system).

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[chain_slappins4]

I've tried the long extension trick.. not really working to we'll, but there isn't any noise coming from the back of the motor.. so I guess that's a good sign..

My oil.level.has stayed steady, I'm going to have it changed this weekend most likely, but isn't going to the 5w 40 bad for our engines?...

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[chain_slappins4]

I went out this afternoon with a long extension again, and I could have sworn the noise sounds like it's coming from the intake, towards the passenger side , almost in between the head and manifold ...

Is that even possible?

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[TarlCabot]

are you sure that your flapper is working correctly on your intake mani ?

there are several new threads on these getting stuck and/or making a noise, but they will NOT go up with rpm

with the engine turned off... the arm on the flapper should be pointing straight down (OPEN)....

with engine running it should move clockwise about 75 degrees, then when engine rpm goes above 5200 rpm, flapper will flip back to the open position... arm straight down

also with engine turned off, it will be difficult (spring loaded), but you should be able to move the flapper with your finger to the CLOSED position

if none of the above, your flapper is stuck!

[chain_slappins4]

Interesting.. I'll have to check that out in the morning... but you said the noise does not go up with RPM.. some doubt that,that is the source of my tap... I have a video but it's to big to upload... maybe I'll put it up on you tube

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[chain_slappins4]

https://youtu.be/tTfAO4WTYgQ

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[chain_slappins4]

just picked up a set of heads, going to have them rebuilt and see what the next step will be.. either find a short block and build the heck out of it and maybe turbo? and just drive this one till it grenades...

oh boy.. my wallet is already starting to hurt and I haven't done much yet...

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

[jakeoboy67]

just picked up a set of heads, going to have them rebuilt and see what the next step will be.. either find a short block and build the heck out of it and maybe turbo? and just drive this one till it grenades...

oh boy.. my wallet is already starting to hurt and I haven't done much yet...

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!

did you find what's wrong with your engine ?

codes ?
have you logged cam timing (actual vs. specified) ?
compression test ?

[chain_slappins4]

not yet.. as far as I can tell, it's a valve issue on intake side between cylinder 3 and 4.. I'm gonna pull the valve cover this week (waiting in gaskets), and try and see what the hell is going on. I found a set of heads cheap and am going to have them rebuilt.

as for codes, only code is my abs light.. waiting on the module to come back for that..

I haven't logged cam timing, didn't think of that- thank you!! I'll have to read up on it and take a look at it.

compression test is 160 to 168ish across all cylinders, she's not really burning oil, i haven't had to top it off yet, but I do check the oil level every time I fuel up, and she holds pretty steady at the full line

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[Slow4]

did you at least change oil?

[chain_slappins4]

yes.. last Saturday, went with 5w40 liqui molly 502, 505 spec full synthetic and I also added a can of sea foam to the oil and gas tank.. that stuff really makes a difference

Sent from the S4 with a Tap!!!