**OFFICIAL** Life Beyond Stage II: the higher stage development thread

[whiped]

I also have a 80mm BMW throttle body pretty much figured out!

Not too interested in the killer chiller for my setup but, I feel like a larger throttle body is likely the next step.

How much did you have to modify the BMW TB to get it to fit? (Do a DIY? )

[Wizard-of-OD]

How much did you have to modify the BMW TB to get it to fit? (Do a DIY? )

Alot
and the output is slightly different. You can get by with a driver box but ideally you want to open up the stock one to 74mm or so.

[whiped]

Alot
and the output is slightly different. You can get by with a driver box but ideally you want to open up the stock one to 74mm or so.

Dang I was hoping maybe you guys had found something that miraculously just worked.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Dang I was hoping maybe you guys had found something that miraculously just worked.

VDO throttle bodies are notoriously bulky and are unserviceable. BTDT
IMHO a Bosch unit would be better but again you need a driver box.

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

Alot
and the output is slightly different. You can get by with a driver box but ideally you want to open up the stock one to 74mm or so.

Driver box? Any experience doing the 74mm boring of this specific tb?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Loe]

Killer Chiller set-up! Can't wait to see the kit! Especially if cutting isn't required!

[s4matty]

I'm making my own..

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[sonic32]

I'm making my own..

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

oh im sorry i thought you purchased one and instead of cutting the a/c lines you came up with the idea of quick connect and the rest of the upgrades. Looking forward to your results and diy. Thanks for being a pioneer and good luck!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bmoreS4]

Great stuff!

Sub'd

[mrmomo313]

Had a misfire issue two days ago... I decided to try the 104 map and CW on 4-1 setting (also started experimenting with a new e85/100 octane mix). Every time I'd go WOT above 4k, all cylinders but CYL1 would shut down...

Was annoying dealing with that because it could've been a number of things (my colder plugs, the fuel mix, the CW 4-1 setting) but I determined I can't run an e37 mix on my car... Switched back to straight 100 octane, 100 apr map and CW 3-1. Car is honestly very very fast with these specs and running well. I'm going to run this setup for a while for the sake of my stock tcu which is adapting to the power quite well. 1-2 shift slips a little and the 2-3 ever so slightly when launching from a dig (no LC just mash and go)... From a 2nd gear roll, shifting at 7k, it's absolutely fantastic.

CW 3-1 seems to work well with the APR 100 map. I am hesitant to bump it back to 4-1 until the dsg is tuned.

Just wanted to share some of my testing with everyone. Going out later today to make two 0-120 passes. If anyone would like to see logs of those just let me know!

Here's a quick 0-60 run to hear the shifting

[derek.kritz]

Had a misfire issue two days ago... I decided to try the 104 map and CW on 4-1 setting (also started experimenting with a new e85/100 octane mix). Every time I'd go WOT above 4k, all cylinders but CYL1 would shut down...

Was annoying dealing with that because it could've been a number of things (my colder plugs, the fuel mix, the CW 4-1 setting) but I determined I can't run an e37 mix on my car... Switched back to straight 100 octane, 100 apr map and CW 3-1. Car is honestly very very fast with these specs and running well. I'm going to run this setup for a while for the sake of my stock tcu which is adapting to the power quite well. 1-2 shift slips a little and the 2-3 ever so slightly when launching from a dig (no LC just mash and go)... From a 2nd gear roll, shifting at 7k, it's absolutely fantastic.

CW 3-1 seems to work well with the APR 100 map. I am hesitant to bump it back to 4-1 until the dsg is tuned.

Just wanted to share some of my testing with everyone. Going out later today to make two 0-120 passes. If anyone would like to see logs of those just let me know!

Here's a quick 0-60 run to hear the shifting

Hell yes!!!! That is a fast ****** right there. Can't wait to get my duel pulley installed. Dammit!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[s4matty]

Had a misfire issue two days ago... I decided to try the 104 map and CW on 4-1 setting (also started experimenting with a new e85/100 octane mix). Every time I'd go WOT above 4k, all cylinders but CYL1 would shut down...

Was annoying dealing with that because it could've been a number of things (my colder plugs, the fuel mix, the CW 4-1 setting) but I determined I can't run an e37 mix on my car... Switched back to straight 100 octane, 100 apr map and CW 3-1. Car is honestly very very fast with these specs and running well. I'm going to run this setup for a while for the sake of my stock tcu which is adapting to the power quite well. 1-2 shift slips a little and the 2-3 ever so slightly when launching from a dig (no LC just mash and go)... From a 2nd gear roll, shifting at 7k, it's absolutely fantastic.

CW 3-1 seems to work well with the APR 100 map. I am hesitant to bump it back to 4-1 until the dsg is tuned.

Just wanted to share some of my testing with everyone. Going out later today to make two 0-120 passes. If anyone would like to see logs of those just let me know!

Here's a quick 0-60 run to hear the shifting

Check #1 cylinder plug
This happened 3x to me and every time the white porcelain on the side of the plug was cracked..IDN why.
Changed the plugs and was good to go

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[mrmomo313]

Check #1 cylinder plug
This happened 3x to me and every time the white porcelain on the side of the plug was cracked..IDN why.
Changed the plugs and was good to go

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Checked plugs and all are good. It was the e37 mix that my car did not like. Runs like a champ on 100 octane gas

[mrmomo313]

Made a couple test passes. Gotta love breaking traction off idle in an AWD car 78F, pss tires at 39F/38R

Second pass is at 2:10

100 octane gas, apr 100 map and CW 3-1. Other mods in sig

[DBL R]

Made a couple test passes. Gotta love breaking traction off idle in an AWD car 78F, pss tires at 39F/38R

Second pass is at 2:10

100 octane gas, apr 100 map and CW 3-1. Other mods in sig

oh she quick, and sounds mean. Good stuff!

[Loe]

Looks fast! Can't believe your car isn't liking a 37.7% mixture though! Hope you can find the right mix!

[waxxonMTL]

3.4 with no tcu tune and a real dedicated tune.. i bet you would see 3.3 or maybe 3.2ish with appropriate ecu tune/dsg tune. but really that got me wondering hwo accurate are those p3 gauges.. i have a hard time believing those times.. seems too quick for a s4 compared to other supercar on the market.

[mrmomo313]

3.4 with no tcu tune and a real dedicated tune.. i bet you would see 3.3 or maybe 3.2ish with appropriate ecu tune/dsg tune. but really that got me wondering hwo accurate are those p3 gauges.. i have a hard time believing those times.. seems too quick for a s4 compared to other supercar on the market.

Yea the p3 isn't all that accurate but I've used a vbox too and they line up surprisingly close as long as there is no wheel spin

AMAX mode would be great to have! If only!

Looks fast! Can't believe your car isn't liking a 37.7% mixture though! Hope you can find the right mix!

Trying e35 next. Hopefully I see good results with that

[Loe]

Yea the p3 isn't all that accurate but I've used a vbox too and they line up surprisingly close as long as there is no wheel spin

AMAX mode would be great to have! If only!


Trying e35 next. Hopefully I see good results with that

What issues are you having with an E37-E38 mix? Yeah, on a race file, it's very very easy to break traction simply by just stomping on the gas even with the mild JHM 179mm crank pulley. I'm hoping the 194mm crank won't give me any trouble

Looks like me, you, and Matty run the same tires; I actually find the OEM Dunlop Sport Maxx GT's provided better traction during acceleration. Once my PSS's are at their replacement point, I'm going to find more dedicated extreme performance category tires or go back to the Dunlop's. Don't get me wrong, the PSS's are an excellent tire in all other aspect's, but once we get to these TQ level's, even Quattro isn't going to help with traction issues.

[waxxonMTL]

well if thats true.. then.. jeez f*ck lolll !! 3.2 for a luxury mid-sedan with 5k$ of mod is pretty impressive ... very impressive actually :O It's damn near close to the performance of my skyline GTR, but with all the luxury you would wish + winter-driven. Gotta love those dual pulley !! :O

[Rekrul]

Wow....thinking of swapping the pulley at this point.

I'm going stage 2 this coming week. I currently have the cw pro. I was thinking of selling it, but it seems like people are stacking the cw and tune. Are there any downsides to this? Btw I'm not getting the tcu upgrade. My cw is about 6 months old...does it need a specific map of sorts to run with the apr stage 2? Thanks guys.

[mrmomo313]

Hell yes!!!! That is a fast ****** right there. Can't wait to get my duel pulley installed. Dammit!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're gonna love it!!

oh she quick, and sounds mean. Good stuff!

Thanks brotha!

What issues are you having with an E37-E38 mix? Yeah, on a race file, it's very very easy to break traction simply by just stomping on the gas even with the mild JHM 179mm crank pulley. I'm hoping the 194mm crank won't give me any trouble

Looks like me, you, and Matty run the same tires; I actually find the OEM Dunlop Sport Maxx GT's provided better traction during acceleration. Once my PSS's are at their replacement point, I'm going to find more dedicated extreme performance category tires or go back to the Dunlop's. Don't get me wrong, the PSS's are an excellent tire in all other aspect's, but once we get to these TQ level's, even Quattro isn't going to help with traction issues.

Well at first I didn't think the misfire was fuel related. I made the mix and allowed it to run through the tank a good 80 miles. I also decided to try the 4-1 setting at the time of fillup.. Then whenever I'd go WOT above 4k all cylinders but 1 would misfire. I thought there would be fuel pressure related codes from running too much E so suspected it was either the 4-1 setting or the plugs. Still had the issue even on 3-1 setting and the plugs all looked good. Let the tank run down and then filled up with a half tank of 100. Drove at least 50 miles to get the 100 in the fuel lines and the first WOT pull was amazing (this was my first clean pull on the race file and CW 3-1). That made me think it was the mix that was causing the issue

I did quite like my dunlops as well but I think they were much heavier than the PSS are. I'm also considering something stickier after these wear. Maybe a sport cup tire or one of the competition tires

well if thats true.. then.. jeez f*ck lolll !! 3.2 for a luxury mid-sedan with 5k$ of mod is pretty impressive ... very impressive actually :O It's damn near close to the performance of my skyline GTR, but with all the luxury you would wish + winter-driven. Gotta love those dual pulley !! :O

It is really amazing the level of performance we are getting out of these cars now.

Wow....thinking of swapping the pulley at this point.

I'm going stage 2 this coming week. I currently have the cw pro. I was thinking of selling it, but it seems like people are stacking the cw and tune. Are there any downsides to this? Btw I'm not getting the tcu upgrade. My cw is about 6 months old...does it need a specific map of sorts to run with the apr stage 2? Thanks guys.

We're all running the CW pro map. It's suppose to be like a stage 2 map

[colby7]

I'm having the 194mm installed with the 7 rib belt tomorrow/Wed. Should I be concerned about having a squealing belt? Last thing I want is to have to have it done again. The tech is aware of the need to grind down the mounting boss.

[lowjonathan]

I'm having the 194mm installed with the 7 rib belt tomorrow/Wed. Should I be concerned about having a squealing belt? Last thing I want is to have to have it done again. The tech is aware of the need to grind down the mounting boss.

are u running dual pulley?

pls update back on any squealing belt

[lapsandwich]

This might be a stupid question, but I'm guessing a brand new stock clutch with the valve delete won't hold up with a dual pulley set up ?

[colby7]

Yes I'm APR/JHM right now with no squealing.

[Rekrul]

Is there an advantage to running the chipwerke with just apr stage 2 prior to installing crank pulley?

You're gonna love it!!






Thanks brotha!



Well at first I didn't think the misfire was fuel related. I made the mix and allowed it to run through the tank a good 80 miles. I also decided to try the 4-1 setting at the time of fillup.. Then whenever I'd go WOT above 4k all cylinders but 1 would misfire. I thought there would be fuel pressure related codes from running too much E so suspected it was either the 4-1 setting or the plugs. Still had the issue even on 3-1 setting and the plugs all looked good. Let the tank run down and then filled up with a half tank of 100. Drove at least 50 miles to get the 100 in the fuel lines and the first WOT pull was amazing (this was my first clean pull on the race file and CW 3-1). That made me think it was the mix that was causing the issue

I did quite like my dunlops as well but I think they were much heavier than the PSS are. I'm also considering something stickier after these wear. Maybe a sport cup tire or one of the competition tires



It is really amazing the level of performance we are getting out of these cars now.



We're all running the CW pro map. It's suppose to be like a stage 2 map

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

Little update since I haven't been posting as much recently. CW seems to be running well and certainly stronger up top where boost was bled before, logs were demonstrating as much. The weather has just not be cooperating and rain seems to come only on track nights. I did get dynoed again, but I'm fairly sure I put slightly too much e85 and leaned out slightly up top. Nothing dangerous but less than ideal. Unfortunately, I wasn't running any logs during the run as I didn't know if he would allow me to and I forgot to bring my laptop just in case. Well, sure enough he told me I could and I will next time. I believe I was leaning out up top and pulling timing as I was only up 4awhp but peak torque gain was 20awtq. The graph looks similar, as well. This doesn't jive with the results of the logs I've run previously that indicated no timing pull, max timing on 93oct file (mid 20's with peak values up to 28*), no boost bleed, an increasing reading on the MAF until redline, and IAT's in a "healthy" range which would all indicate what the butt dyno has been telling me, there power builds until the 7,200rpm shift point.

The car seems to have piqued the interest of the owner of CBRD so he's been a little more engaged and spitballing ideas with me as well as getting more familiar with my setup so he's been willing to give a little more preferential treatment on the dyno which I will be taking advantage of in the near future and logging will certainly be a part of all this.

I'm going to transition back to straight 93 now as well as I was mainly just experimenting with it for the experience and to max out my timing and ensure I wouldn't get crazy knock running this setup but I'm more than confident at this point that straight e10 93oct shouldn't be an issue based on the collective experience of those running similar setups and posting as well as my own.

Run 1 was best run from this session overlaid on 2 being the best from last session:



Any thoughts or comments, I'm open to them!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AudBoost]

The only concern I see is the AFR readings between the overlaid runs. I can't tell because the numbers are blurred out (or I just have bad eye sight) but I would be a little concerned about that AFR curve of the solid line.

[Loe]

The only concern I see is the AFR readings between the overlaid runs. I can't tell because the numbers are blurred out (or I just have bad eye sight) but I would be a little concerned about that AFR curve of the solid line.

AFR value's will be different with an ethanol mix (there is a conversion chart in the other AR forum), however yes that AFR curve looks concerning so that ethanol mix is slightly off and the APR software isn't liking it and cannot make proper adjustments.

we need to get ours on the dyno when its colder!

[AudBoost]

we need to get ours on the dyno when its colder!

Absolutely! We just need to find a reliable AWD dyno around our area. One of the ASOT members dyno'd at a local dyno shop and it said his car was making 478awhp on APR Stage 2 93 file. Sorry... but that's way too high. I believe it was a Dynocom dyno.

[Loe]

402 awhp is nothing to sneeze at on a pump file, you can definitely see where the CW is controlling the bypass and keeping it shut. The curve could be slightly smoother, so I would agree there may be an issue with running lean in certain parts of the powerband. What was your ethanol mix?

I think that it's great that you are still pulling at redline, even as you go beyond 20,000rpm on the s/c (you are at 22,317rpm by 7,200rpm). Your dyno confirms that the Eaton TVSR1320 still wants to make power, which now makes me wonder if a 194mm crank will still allow for a linear power pull to redline instead of dropping off as previously suspected. Judging by your curve, a 194mm combo with the majority of the popular s/c pulley's will at least allow for a rising HP curve up to 6,600rpm, who knows what will happen beyond that.

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

Like I said, I think the main issue was that I was a little heavy on the ethanol content with a fueling system not designed for it. I was refilling which is when the ratios become dicey and I haven't been testing my actual ethanol content once it's in the tank, I try to run conservative, but I even thought at the time I put about a 1/2 gallon too much e85. This is confirming that.

That was the afr running off the sniffer, the numbers really should coincide with gasoline in terms of being "safe" since they are converted numbers for gasoline and not a direct stat reading. So, yeah, this is less than ideal. I am running full 93 now with no issues but all this is on hold until I get my sways and struts swapped out. Got her up on the stands before I realized eurocode sent me two front sways in their kit . So now I have two cars up on stands, out of commission, but I still have a truck, so she'll wait.

I'm also not using this to claim what awhp our cars put out because I don't find them too reliable or comparable, but at the same time, remember this is a Mustang dyno, aka the heartbreak dyno. There is a chance that in the next few weeks I'll be helping out with a demo and will dyno along with 3 other cars on two types of dyno's within hours of one another to illustrate this. The other dyno is a dynojet. We'll see if that pans out and what the results are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Loe]

I can't wait to see your re-dyno. I don't think you'll see much in terms of peak HP (maybe up to 405awhp on E20-E25, possibly 410awhp?), but it should make for a smoother power curve for sure.

[JayCar]

This is good stuff guys. Keep t going.

[Lamprey]

Is the grinding for the OD crank pulley for all model years?

I have a 2013 and installed the KI 194mm crank pulley with 7 rib belt and I didn't nice any rubbing. I guess I better check to double-verify it is not rubbing.

[whiped]

Is the grinding for the OD crank pulley for all model years?

I have a 2013 and installed the KI 194mm crank pulley with 7 rib belt and I didn't nice any rubbing. I guess I better check to double-verify it is not rubbing.

We don't know conclusively. You should check though just to be safe and to let us know so we can update the first post

[Loe]

As we have more data coming in, we will see what needs grinding with both pulley and belt combinations. Hopefully people will update (as whiped mentioned), please do everyone so that I can update the original thread with an updated spreadsheet from whiped.

btw...awesome group collaboration, althought we are a smaller group, I'm glad that there are others who are here to experiment on their own and posting results. 3 more month of this FL heat (mid 90's, 65-75% humidity), maybe I can get a decent run once FIXXFEST happens near turkey time in Bradenton, FL.

[stereojorge]

As we have more data coming in, we will see what needs grinding with both pulley and belt combinations. Hopefully people will update (as whiped mentioned), please do everyone so that I can update the original thread with an updated spreadsheet from whiped.

btw...awesome group collaboration, althought we are a smaller group, I'm glad that there are others who are here to experiment on their own and posting results. 3 more month of this FL heat (mid 90's, 65-75% humidity), maybe I can get a decent run once FIXXFEST happens near turkey time in Bradenton, FL.

FIXXFEST FTW! Keep up the great work buddy! You and Jeremy are making ASOT proud with all your willingness to try new things!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

As we have more data coming in, we will see what needs grinding with both pulley and belt combinations. Hopefully people will update (as whiped mentioned), please do everyone so that I can update the original thread with an updated spreadsheet from whiped.

btw...awesome group collaboration, althought we are a smaller group, I'm glad that there are others who are here to experiment on their own and posting results. 3 more month of this FL heat (mid 90's, 65-75% humidity), maybe I can get a decent run once FIXXFEST happens near turkey time in Bradenton, FL.

I also have a '13. I'll be wrenching today and see if I can tell without taking the front apart. I'll let you know for sure when my fluidampr comes and I install it, he said it would be shipping today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk