**OFFICIAL** Life Beyond Stage II: the higher stage development thread

[stereojorge]

I debated whether or not to go with a damped pulley or a solid pulley and I read the below thread a more than a few times. The debate starts on page 2 post #77.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-failure/page2

Torquewrench brings up a lot of valid arguments for a dampened pulley and then towards the end S4Leistung brings valid arguments against it. I guess we won't know the extent of either pulley until people get more miles on them. I do have a friend that had the JHM solid pulley on 2012 for over 20k and the car ran great. He sold his 2012 for a 2014 and moved the JHM crank pulley and 10K+ miles later and says he has no issues.

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[ntsantos]

Interesting, he said 186 in his selling thread a few minutes ago.

Can anyone with the GMG 180mm confirm it needs some grinding?

I have the GMG pulley installed (with AWE sc pulley) and grinding was not required.

[whiped]

I have the GMG pulley installed (with AWE sc pulley) and grinding was not required.

Thank you. I assume you are running the GIAC beta tune?

Any numbers for us?

[ntsantos]

Thank you. I assume you are running the GIAC beta tune?

Any numbers for us?

Running EPL dual pulley e85 tune. I had GIAC, but wanted to run e85 and epl was or is the only one with a full e85 file. No numbers yet...

[whiped]

Running EPL dual pulley e85 tune. I had GIAC, but wanted to run e85 and epl was or is the only one with a full e85 file. No numbers yet...

How do the EPL and GIAC tunes compare? (Obviously subjective but, I'm curious)

[BillyG]

I've updated the chart. Here is a new screenshot for you Loe.

Thank you, this is great! Makes me want to go with just a 203 crank pulley instead of installing my CTS pulley.

[whiped]

Thank you, this is great! Makes me want to go with just a 203 crank pulley instead of installing my CTS pulley.

I updated the spreadsheet again since 184mm pulleys need the modification as well.

FWIW, this is all that needs to be shaved down:

[ntsantos]

How do the EPL and GIAC tunes compare? (Obviously subjective but, I'm curious)

Kinda apples and oranges since giac wasn't e85. Definitely loving the epl tune.

[whiped]

Kinda apples and oranges since giac wasn't e85. Definitely loving the epl tune.

Fair enough, I'm mostly thirsty for numbers as EPL doesn't have much out in that department especially for higher ratio tunes.

[ModItNow]

Anyone here have experience with fluidampr? I've heard good things overall about them on other applications. I would probably get the 189mm adapter since thats the most aggressive size they make to go with a smaller sc pulley

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[rtl5009]

I'm jumping to 206 once I get my Coldfront kit put in and figure out my living situation. (Might be moving)

I updated the spreadsheet again since 184mm pulleys need the modification as well.

FWIW, this is all that needs to be shaved down:

Does the 183 mm fluidampr need any clearancing?

[whiped]

Anyone here have experience with fluidampr? I've heard good things overall about them on other applications. I would probably get the 189mm adapter since thats the most aggressive size they make to go with a smaller sc pulley

Fluidampr is well known across many platforms but, I don't think many here have it yet. Also, 189 is not the most aggressive. A few here are running 194 with a smaller SC giving pulley ratios of about 3.4. (See the table for reference)

We don't yet know what will happen as the supercharger passes 24k RPMs so at this point it is all trail blazing.

Does the 183 mm fluidampr need any clearancing?

I am not positive but the picture above is from a 184 mm pulley so I would like say yes. Even if you didn't have to trim it down I probably would anyway just to be safe

[rtl5009]

179 is good with zero trimming correct? Both pulleys are ribbed. It walks that far over?

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

179 is good with zero trimming correct? Both pulleys are ribbed. It walks that far over?

Correct.


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[ModItNow]

Oh I was just saying with the fluidampr the most aggressive they make is 189 (to go with a 57mm pulley) 194 sounds good to me! Yeah sounds like its definitely at your own risk at this point. Thanks

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[madman4you]

Interesting, he said 186 in his selling thread a few minutes ago.

Can anyone with the GMG 180mm confirm it needs some grinding?

No grinding required.

[Loe]

Thank you whiped, front page has been updated.

[Quidproquo]

FWIW, this is all that needs to be shaved down:

Is this picture taken from the bottom of the engine facing up?
Is that the crank pulley on the right (above the DAYCO lettering)?

[AudBoost]

Is this picture taken from the bottom of the engine facing up?
Is that the crank pulley on the right (above the DAYCO lettering)?

Yes it is taken from the bottom up. In the illustration below the area between 1 and 4 is where the piece that needs to be trimmed is located.

[Jflow23]

Is this picture taken from the bottom of the engine facing up?
Is that the crank pulley on the right (above the DAYCO lettering)?

The DAYCO belt is on the crank pulley and passes by the tensioner in this picture. This was taken on the KI 194 mm pulley. You can avoid grinding by using a 6 rib belt, vice the factory style 7-rib belt. That DAYCO belt in the picture started squealing and I replaced it with a 6-rib belt (all I could find locally in a pinch), there is more clearance with the belt hung on the forward rib.

[Loe]

The DAYCO belt is on the crank pulley and passes by the tensioner in this picture. This was taken on the KI 194 mm pulley. You can avoid grinding by using a 6 rib belt, vice the factory style 7-rib belt. That DAYCO belt in the picture started squealing and I replaced it with a 6-rib belt (all I could find locally in a pinch), there is more clearance with the belt hung on the forward rib.

Just to clarify, with a 6 rib belt, no grinding is necessary? Thats great news if you can clarify.

FWIW, domestic guys run into belt size issues as well when running higher pulley ratio's and have to also purchase belts with less ribs (8 rib versus 6 rib on certain combinations), no reported belt failures that I could search for dating waaaaay back to at least 2003 on the SVT Mustang Cobra "terminator" when going to a reduced size.

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

Anyone have a resource for belt LENGTH? This is my first time messing around with any differently sized pulley's. I always built my cars for DD so I kept all my accessories running strong and always ran turbos so there was never a need. I'm have the 189 FD pulley coming next week and want to ensure I have the right belt for my combo. Is there a formula or general approach to belt sizing?


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[Jflow23]

Just to clarify, with a 6 rib belt, no grinding is necessary? Thats great news if you can clarify.

FWIW, domestic guys run into belt size issues as well when running higher pulley ratio's and have to also purchase belts with less ribs (8 rib versus 6 rib on certain combinations), no reported belt failures that I could search for dating waaaaay back to at least 2003 on the SVT Mustang Cobra "terminator" when going to a reduced size.

That picture is from my install. Based on the amount of interference I had, I am confident that a 6-rib belt will not require grinding. I'll crawl under there this weekend to get you guys a pic with the 6-rib belt installed.

[Jflow23]

Used an endoscopic camera...please excuse the quality





Bottom line, I'm convinced that 6 ribs will not require grinding.

[Loe]

that is awesome! I"ll make sure to get some pictures of my install as well as soon as my larger OD pulley arrives

[Ze_Nardo6]

Currently running an APR blower pulley with a JHM overdrive crank....would it make a noticeable difference if I swapped the APR pulley for a CTS given the size difference? Worth it?

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Bottom line, I'm convinced that 6 ribs will not require grinding.

Maybe so, but remember that you're losing surface area on both the crank and supercharger pulleys for belt traction, so there's a slightly greater chance for slippage. How much and if any is unknown, but just wanted to put that out there since the chance increases with less surface area with one less rib.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Currently running an APR blower pulley with a JHM overdrive crank....would it make a noticeable difference if I swapped the APR pulley for a CTS given the size difference? Worth it?

According to the charts, like 300-350RPMs on the blower more at 7k if you do it. How much that'll get you compared to the labor to change out the pulley is unknown and a call you'd have to make.

[Jflow23]

Maybe so, but remember that you're losing surface area on both the crank and supercharger pulleys for belt traction, so there's a slightly greater chance for slippage. How much and if any is unknown, but just wanted to put that out there since the chance increases with less surface area with one less rib.

True, but the 7-rib was slipping...6-rib is ultra quiet. No issues up to 6800 rpm. The pulley came with 53" belt, but the tension is slightly off. I found a replacement in 6 ribs that is made of a different material and is thicker and stiffer...tension is much better.

I'll likely switch to 6-rib 52.5" belt at the next oil change. I have been unable to find 7-ribs at 52.5"

I don't think the additional rib will make a significant difference, especially with consistent inspection.

[whiped]

Currently running an APR blower pulley with a JHM overdrive crank....would it make a noticeable difference if I swapped the APR pulley for a CTS given the size difference? Worth it?

I would put a bigger crank pulley on instead of swapping out the SC pulley.

Looking at the chart (Specifically Ratios)

Switching to the CTS pulley will net you a +0.039 gain in ratio which as Swank pointed out yields ~280 RPMs at WOT.

Stepping up to say a 189mm crank gives you a +0.173 ratio gain yielding an extra ~1245 RPMs at WOT

Ultimately the choice is yours, CTS pulley ~$160 + install, KI 189mm pulley ~$460 + install, or grab the KI 186mm in classified right now for $430, Fluidampr also has an offering which would be a few hundred more

[Jflow23]

No special tools required for crank install either. It wasn't too difficult to do myself.

It looked easier than the SC pulley IMHO. Can't actually comment on the SC pulley install...went straight to 194mm KI.

[whiped]

No special tools required for crank install either. It wasn't too difficult to do myself.

It looked easier than the SC pulley IMHO. Can't actually comment on the SC pulley install...went straight to 194mm KI.

That was my thought as well. Granted the SC is more accessible but, you still need to heat/chill the pulleys to do the swap.

[mrmomo313]

that is awesome! I"ll make sure to get some pictures of my install as well as soon as my larger OD pulley arrives

Are you waiting till it's cool down there to put it on or just going for it now? 194 KI with the giac pulley right?

[whiped]

Are you waiting till it's cool down there to put it on or just going for it now? 194 KI with the giac pulley right?

If I had to take a guess he is putting it on now.

I know Matty sent it not that long ago and that Matty is currently running stock cooling on his rig.

Loe has the AWE SC pulley as noted in the 1/4 mi thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...your-time-here

[Jflow23]

Matt's coolant system is not exactly stock. He has a homemade expansion tank that looks like it holds almost another gallon of coolant.

[whiped]

Matt's coolant system is not exactly stock. He has a homemade expansion tank that looks like it holds almost another gallon of coolant.

I thought he hasn't had a chance to fit that or his meth injection yet...

Beats me, I cannot keep track of the crazy things he is doing

[Wizard-of-OD]

The crank pulley change is more involved than the sc pulley change.

I disagree
The crank pulley swap is actually faster than the supercharger pulley swap.
Once the vehicle is in partial service mode (i.e. front clip slid forward 3") you can swap the crankshaft pulley in under 10 minutes. It takes longer to warm up the betty crocker oven....
The trick is noting where the offset hole is. On the OEM crankshaft pulley there are 2 dimples on either side of the offset hole. What good practice would be is to install an exhaust manifold stud or any M8 x 1.25 stud into the offset hole , install the aftermarket crankshaft pulley using the other (7) M8 bolts and then removing the stud to install the final 8th bolt.

I am hoping that the tunes will evolve over the next year that stacking wouldn't be required.

They will evolve now that tuners are more comfortable with not having a crankshaft pulley fail.

[s4matty]

I thought he hasn't had a chance to fit that or his meth injection yet...

Beats me, I cannot keep track of the crazy things he is doing

I recently added a extra coolant pump as well. Also running 2 stages of W/M
So at this point I'm not too worried about heat..Also have something else in the works that will yield crazy low IAT temps (well let's hope so)

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[whiped]

I recently added a extra coolant pump as well. Also running 2 stages of W/M
So at this point I'm not too worried about heat..Also have something else in the works that will yield crazy low IAT temps (well let's hope so)

The thermal reduction plates Loe was talking about?

I doubt they will yield crazy low IATs. What are you going to do add a NOS shot to your intake? Tap into the AC system?

[s4matty]

I'm not taking about thermal plates..Making a quick connect killer chiller set up..no cutting of ac lines..It will simply connect where you fill ac via a 3way quick connect!!

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