Setting up track suspension - Coils, control arms, bushings, inserts, end-links, etc.

[ven0m]

My DRC was completely renewed by the previous owner 4 years ago. All 4 shocks changed, etc. But recently I was changing brake rotors/pads and I noticed that my rear-left DRC shock is sweating oil - it's not a leak, but you can see a fine misty coat/film of grease over the shock on the outside. I'm making a forecast that it will get worse and give out sooner or later.

SO I DECIDED TO GO FULL RACE-MODE:
- KW Clubsport coilovers (+optional camber plates)
- Stërn front-upper adjustable control arms
- 034 rear-upper adjustable control arms
- 034 Billet Aluminium subframe bushings (Front & rear)
- 034 Billet Aluminium rear diff. carrier mount inserts
- Powerflex bushings (lower control arms front/back & front sway-bar)

Already purchased:
- Hotchkis rear-sway bar & 034 adjustable end-links
- AP racing rotors (front), JHM rotors (rear) & Ferodo DS2500 pads
- O.Z. Alleggerita HLT 18"x9" et25 rims + Federal 595RSR 265/35/18 tyres (all together ~19.9lbs per corner)

Should I consider:
- 034 front sway-bar end-links? (The front sway & links are OEM, would the added stiffness of EVERYTHING add a risk of braking the front end-links?)
- Anything else which would be of added worth to such a setup?
- A (stupid) modular front lip-spoiler AS BIG AS MANHATTAN, for dat down-force, yo? (would be only used on race-days and hidden somewhere far-far-away when the car is on the street)

With all this said, I have TWO questions:
1.) Optional camber plates with the coilovers from KW. Yay or nay?
(I am aware that camber plates do shit with camber on a double-wishbone suspension, BUT they do replace the rubber insert of the strut tower-mount and cause for a direct-stiff-as-f*** connection of the strut to the frame.)

2.) Wheel-alignment (a chapter for itself...) I googled out these recommendations from Stasis for b7 RS4 Wheel-alignment . Any thoughts on rear camber?
(I got a recommendation from a race shop of -1.5 in the back; for the front they recommended the same as Stasis below -2 to -3.)

Conservative Street Setup
Between 1/16 and 1/32 TOE IN front and 1/32 TOE IN rear
Ride height at 25.875” front and 26.000” rear
(–1.0 camber front)

Aggressive Street Setup
Between 1/32 and 0 TOE IN on all four corners
Ride height at 25.500” front and 25.625” rear
(–1.5 to –1.75 camber front)

Track Setup
Between 0 and 1/16 TOE OUT on all four corners
Ride height at 25.000” front and 25.250” rear
(–2.0 to –3.0 camber front)

A cheeps-cake question: If I lower the car to "Aggressive Street Setup", this will automatically cause camber on front and back wheels.
Does anybody know how much that camber actually is at that ride-height with OEM control arms? Since I will run the car primarily at "Aggressive street" settings, maybe I can skip on an adjustable control arm set (yup, here's the cheeps-cake speaking).


Sorry for the long post, but I always try to condense all smaller questions as not to clog the forums.

[2photors4]

I have all spherical bearings and aluminum body mounts. I monitor tire temps after autocross runs with a pyrometer and have gradually reduced the front negative camber from -2.75 down to -1.5. Because everything is so stiff I don't seem to need as much negative camber. I am also running 315 mm tires which probably role over less and this may be why I need less negative camber than what others run. If you are going to drive the car on the road you may want to keep the camber no more negative than 2 to protect from excessive tire wear. I run zero toe. Even a small amount of toe in combined with more than -1.75 negative camber can wear the inside of your tires very quick on the road.

[ABanT]

Cheapskate

[2photors4]

I know. I learned the hard way. I had an alignment with a tiny amount of toe-in and the inside of the tires showed noticeable cupping on my street tires within a day or two. I don't mind a little extra wear on the outside of my race tires because I am looking for an excuse to replace them anyway as they lose their stickiness. I rotate (flip inside out) the race tires on the rims after about 20 to 30 runs as the outside starts to round a bit more than the inside. If it was a trailered track car I would probably run -1.75 to -2 camber.

[c0ntract_thrill]

I have my B6 S4 setup and dialled in for the track.

Corner weighting the car is going to be very important prior to the alignment if your actually going to track the car ( Autocross and hard parking need not apply).

Here are my weights:


My alignment specs are Front -1.8* camber and 0 toe, Rear -1.5* 1/16 toe in . Keep in mind that the rear suspension will pull out at WOT so a -1 Toe will become nearly 0 at 100+ km/hr under load, if you run 0 Rear toe on alignment, it will be toe out at high speed creating drag and excessive tire wear. I am not 100% certain this is true of the RS4, but it is for B6/B7 A4/s4.

My ride height is around 25" fender to ground, but that varies corner to corner as my setup is dialled in based on weight not ride height.

I have zero aero mods, and while I have every drivetrain/suspension/mount 034/JHM make, I am only running H&R coilovers... my car is very neutral for being a four door pig.

[2photors4]

Corner weighting is recommended. Mine is corner weighted too. Slight toe in at the rear makes sense. Zero toe at the front will probably cause some toe out in the front when you start moving forward depending on how much play there is in the linkages. That was the reason why we tried a little toe in. Unfortunately this ended up with increased inside wear when coupled with the camber. I can't remember how much toe in we used but it was very little. Toe out on the front is recommended to assist turn in for racing. I haven't used it just because I wanted to be confident in my straight line stability at speed on the highway.

[c0ntract_thrill]

If you have all solid suspension (spherical end links and etc) geometry components up front shouldn't change toe like in the rear.

I have been pleased with this setup now. It is great to see discussions like this on AZ, normally I am just seeing stanced cars and the idea that these are slow cars not suited for the track.

[BenSti]

Finally someone interested in something fun :)

First off, skip the Stern upper control arms, they are junk. Go with the 034 full spherical, or the regular 034 adjustable ones if you don't want full spherical. I've run the Powerflex lower control arm bushings, they are OK, but nothing compared to the 034 spherical inserts. The spherical lowers aren't that harsh really, bumps actually feel more controlled rather than squishy with the rubber or urethane ones.

Get the 034 front spherical end links, they make a huge difference.

Get the Hotchkis front swaybar, you'll need it. I run the front/rear setup with the rear on soft.

I have a huge splitter, it is fun, the car is insanely grippy in the front, like planted everywhere! I would not suggest it for daily driving though. PM me if you want some more details on the splitter including who made it for me.

On 275 R-Comps, I am running ~-3deg front and -2.5deg rear if I recall correctly. Zero toe.

You'll kill the RS595's pretty quick on track, they like to heat cycle out and crack. If you can get them, try the Nitto NT01 as a entry R-Comp that is still derivable on the street. Otherwise try the Dunlop ZII Starspec, my favorite non-RComp tire. Also, you can run 275/35/18 in both sizes.

As far as camber wear goes, I get little to none on the rear, but a bit on the front due to street driving. If I run it on track, it is super even front and rear.

Also, consider LSD (either interpretation), I did an OSGiken in the rear and a Wavetrac in the front 2photonrs4 has the same setup in the rear. Totally transforms the behavior of the car.

[komseh]

Just wanted to comment on upper adjustable control arms.

The 034 arms are really strong, but if you want to adjust your front alignment more than once... go with the SPC arms. The adjustment is infinitely easier and the SPC arms have proven to be quite strong. They had some problems with their original design, but they made a revision.

http://store.specprod.com/productdetail/M50/1/1/81355

[lucidmatt]

SPC adjustable arms are also rebranded as Moogs... Theyre $300 for both sides on Rockauto ;)

[NYC_Legacy]

Can anyone comment on the NVH from solid aluminum subframe bushings? I am thinking about upgrading but I do DD the car.


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[2photors4]

Definitely recommended. I had the Stasis suspension but was surprised that even when full stiff there was a delay in the car's response to steering input. I had the front body mounts replaced first. The front of the car responded like a laser. But the rear responded about a second later. After replacing the rear body mounts, the handling of the whole car significantly improved. A car will not fully benefit from an investment in a performance suspension when soft rubber body mounts significantly nullify the increase in stiffness. I also daily drive this car and did not really notice a significant increase in harshness in the ride.

[ven0m]

Thanks for all the input guys!

General question, if I dial in the alignment:
- FOR THE TRACK, 25" ride-height; front -2.5° camber and 0 toe; rear -1.5° 1/16 toe-in
- FOR THE ROAD, I would lift the car back to 26" and let the camber reduce itself with the height change?
(this way it wouldn't be too aggressive when driven on the road and I could simply lower it for optimal settings when going on track)

ps: Any thoughts on the metal camber plates from KW for added stiffness of the struts?


@c0ntract_thrill - Thank you for the valuable geometry input! Much more clear regarding how the wheels align during load. I have the option to corner at a shop near me. I'll look into it as I'm also considering a fixed ride height setup, due to heigh adjustment in winter/summer time for street use.

@BenSti - Thanks for the tip on the 034 control arms, I also looked at those but I saw some forum reviews where members rather considered the Stërn arms. (Don't know why, maybe biased due to z German ë in the company name :P ). Now I noticed that they are metal spheres, oposed to all other arms with classical rubber bushings. They are probably hard-as-hell?
I'll get the front end links, but I probably won't go with the front thicker bar as I want to keep the car rear-biased as it is atm. (personal preference)
Regarding the splitter, I believe I saw you have the Cuprazilla from Carbonworx, if I'm not mistaken? Also saw that option - O'm considering a local shop to do one for me (a friend who does full carbon Golf 2 restorations etc.)
LSD is on the list, behind the trans. rebuild and in-front of the Vortex supercharger. :P

@komseh & lucidmatt - Good info. I have never seen those arms. How durable are they?

@2photors4 - I saw your tyre setup last year when I bought my car and started visiting the AZ forums. I never knew you track with those wheels!! How the hell do you clear you front hub carrier?!

[komseh]

I can't speak from experience on the SPC arms quite yet as I just put them on today, but they seem like they are quite durable. I know of a local car running them for track duty with no problems.

The "performance" version of their arms have sealed spherical bearings at the inner ends instead of rubber bushings. As I said before the adjustment is infinitely easier so your installer / alignment guy will love you if you don't get the 034 arms.

[NYC_Legacy]

I can't speak from experience on the SPC arms quite yet as I just put them on today, but they seem like they are quite durable. I know of a local car running them for track duty with no problems.

The "performance" version of their arms have sealed spherical bearings at the inner ends instead of rubber bushings. As I said before the adjustment is infinitely easier so your installer / alignment guy will love you if you don't get the 034 arms.

I saw however, grinding is required on the top suspension hat so these arms can work properly. I'll look to your experience after you get them.

[komseh]

I saw however, grinding is required on the top suspension hat so these arms can work properly. I'll look to your experience after you get them.

Fortunately my car didn't require grinding the top mount. That probably only needs to be done on slammed cars.

[MattboyR32]

Fortunately my car didn't require grinding the top mount. That probably only needs to be done on slammed cars.

I have the 034 adjustables with the rubber bushings at the inner ends, however, where they connect to the hub carrier, at the pinch point, they do impact on the hub carrier. The suspension is set to about 25 1/4" floor to fender all the way around and even with moderate camber the hub carrier is impacted to the point that the spherical bearing was bent. 034 are great at replacing them, but just something to be aware of also. As ben said, set the toe to 0 and you will get minimal tire wear at max camber/caster.

[NYC_Legacy]

Thank you for the input Matt. Looks like I'll have to resort to grinding either way.


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