E39 M5 to C7 S6... thoughts?

[jordon]

I spent many years in the audi fold, but have been piloting bimmers for the last 5 years. I often miss the security of awd in winters, and the beauty of audi interiors. I made a post regarding this possible change on a popular m5 forum, and will post the same here to compare both sets of thoughts.


As the title suggests, I am considering making a move from my beloved beast to a 2013 or newer audi s6. I am in a climate where awd is useful for 4-6 months per year, and the (highly underrated) 4.0T is a monster, particularly with a tune. I have seen tests where using launch control it achieves sub 4 second 0-60 times. I have not yet test driven one, and any change would likely not be for another 6 months. Just wanted some feedback... am I out to lunch? Is there something else i should be considering? I need something to daily drive year round, and it should be comfortable for myself, and wife and 2 kids. We don't need to do any extended trips in it though, as we have a mercedes r320 diesel for family trips.

I am also considering an f10 550ix, a w221 s550 4matic, a w212 e63 amg, audi a7, audi a8 4.0t..... basically staying german, and want a mid to fullsize sedan with decent power and luxury features. and although I love my beast, it is getting a little old, and I feel like driving something more modern.

Any help, suggestions, and reality checks would be much appreciated.

[S6Express]

I've had an E39 M5 and and E60 M5. You're going to be blown away by the ease of power on the S6, it comes on at low RPMs and stays throughout the entire shift cycle in all gears. The only drawback when comparing it to those two cars is that the steering feel isn't quite as sporty as on those models.

[hinckley]

Wow, an E39 M5 - the quintessential M5. If it's in good shape, and you can swing it, I'd hold onto that car. It really is a classic.

I understand the desire to move to AWD. I did it five years ago after a lifetime of BMWs and I can't go back to RWD winter cars. I've owned five 5ers going back to a 1984 528e and ending with a 2012 M5. I love BMW and still consider myself a BMW guy, but I just can't buy their AWD cars. If you drive an S6 and a 550ix back-to-back, you'll understand. BMW optimized xDrive for foul weather traction. The car is raised and can't be had with an M Suspension (even MSport models). They are pigs to drive imo. On the other hand, Audi engineered quattro for driving dynamics first, with an added secondary benefit of foul weather traction. It's very important to get a car with the sport diff though. That makes all the difference.

If you're coming out of an M5, I just don't think you'll be happy with a Merc. The A7 and A8 are great, but the S models are much more sporty and much closer to the drive that you're accustomed to. And you can only get the sport diff in the S models.

There is one thing that made the E39 the last great M5 that you'll need to be prepared for in any of these newer cars - weight, lots of weight. All the cars you're thinking about weigh around 4500 lbs/2000 kg. And no matter how sophisticated the suspension, you're not hiding that kind of weight (especially when you're accustomed to an E39).

Good luck jordon. Have fun with this.

[VVG]

These are very different cars, more so than you might think. The M5 is smaller, lighter, much more precise in feel, and has a normally aspirated motor, with all the +/- that goes with that. The S6 has time-bending thrust, especially when tuned, a gorgeous interior and the best engineered AWD system in production today.

As some have pointed out, the S/RS 6&7 are big cars, and they drive big. You will definitely want to tune the suspension to give a tighter feel. There is no doubt that even weather notwithstanding, these levels of power and torque need AWD to get the power to the ground. The next M5 and M6 will also be coming with AWD.

So, in the end, you will getting a phenomenal car, and a car that is transformed very nicely with a few relatively inexpensive mods, but it will not feel as sharp and precise as your E39. I do agree, however, that given the current choices, the C7 Audis are a good way to go. If you don't mind buying used, look at a Panamera also for the same money. The Panamera tops everything IMO for this class of car, but you won't get the balls to the wall speed capability unless you go for the turbo, which, even used, is well into 6 figures.

[jordon]

Wow, that is some great input so far guys. Much appreciated too. I should mention that i am not overly concerned about giving up some handling. I don’t track my car, and roads can be a little rough here, so a firm yet forgiving ride can be appreciated. How is the comfort level of the seats? Do they wear quickly?
I had also considered the panamera, but not enough to look that closely yet. They are really a rare car on the used car market here. Anyone driven one?
I am not looking for a hard edged race car though.

[madyspop]

I've had three E39 M5's and still have my DINAN S2, the S6 is amazing and love every second of driving it but will most likely never part with my M5.

[zcd2.7t]

Wow, that is some great input so far guys. Much appreciated too. I should mention that i am not overly concerned about giving up some handling. I don’t track my car, and roads can be a little rough here, so a firm yet forgiving ride can be appreciated. How is the comfort level of the seats? Do they wear quickly?...

The S6's ride comfort is great, IMO. Super-smooth in "Comfort" mode, and pretty well tied-down in "Dynamic" mode. If anything, being an "S" car rather than an "RS" car, it slightly prioritizes ride over handling, so if you're looking for comfort, the S6 has you covered.

The seats are nice. The standard (in the US) diamond-stitched leather seats look great and feel good, whereas the optional "Comfort" seats look good and feel great. (SWIDT? ;-)

My car has 51K miles and the leather still looks great. There are some minor creases on the driver's side outside lower bolster, but that's SOP for Audi leather, in my experience.

I have little doubt that the Panamanabananamera(™) handles better than the S6, but I wouldn't be able to look at it every day, and the Turbo (the only one that's in the ballpark with the S6 in straight-line performance) is EXPEN$IVE, even used.

Good luck with your decision/search!

[Roebear]

Im a VAG guy for life but if I had access to an E39 I trusted, I'd hold on to that for dear life.


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[hinckley]

Wow, that is some great input so far guys. Much appreciated too. I should mention that i am not overly concerned about giving up some handling. I don’t track my car, and roads can be a little rough here, so a firm yet forgiving ride can be appreciated. How is the comfort level of the seats? Do they wear quickly?
I had also considered the panamera, but not enough to look that closely yet. They are really a rare car on the used car market here. Anyone driven one?
I am not looking for a hard edged race car though.

jordon, remember that Audi's S cars are not equivalent to BMW's M models. Audi's RS cars compete with M. The S6 is really equivalent to a 550 and is softer than the M5. Audi's "A" models are softer still. I've driven both M cars and Porsche 911s around an old northeast city with very bad roads for many years and don't have a problem with their ride at all, but admittedly I like cars that drive a bit firmer than many. Audi S cars, especially in Comfort mode, should not be a concern for anyone, but you should drive an A6 or A7 to determine whether they go too soft for you. Their softer damping combined with their very heavy weight make them unacceptable to me.

In terms of comfort, the Audi's sports seats are both beautiful and comfortable. The optional comfort seats are even move comfortable, but you loose the beauty of the sport seat. And in general, the beauty and quality of Audi's interior easily surpasses BMW. On the flip side, Audi's tech is very good and better than most, but BMW's is even better. It's the only thing that I'm disappointed with in my new S6.

The Panny is an amazing vehicle by any measure. But it's big and expensive. The Porsche really is in a different class than the S6 imo.

[jordon]

I just thought I would give you all an update.

I just had an offer accepted on an Audi A7. It has absolutely every option available, except S-Line bumpers (even Bang & Olufsen). Havana Black exterior, black interior, with beaufort oak trim. 20" wheels, Innovation package, night vision, sport package, heads up display, radar cruise, led lights, heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, etc etc

i will keep the m5 parked in the garage for a while, and see what happens. If i find i am still grabbing the keys to the beast often, maybe it will stay, if not.... well, it may be off to a new home.

thanks for all of your input!

[jordon]

ended up backing out of the purchase... seller started acting flakey, and I found out he had hit a deer with the car (it was repaired, but still...)
so, I just put down a deposit (and am going to pick up tomorrow) on a 2015 S4, technik, black optic, sepang blue, sport diff, bang & olufsen, beaufort aluminum oak trim, adaptive suspension, H&R lowering springs, remote starter, and about 8,000 miles on it (13,000 km). Previous owner is the sales manager at the audi dealer, and he spec'd the car very well. I am planning to keep this one for 2 or 3 years, then possible pick up a cpo S7 or maybe even an RS7.

[zcd2.7t]

ended up backing out of the purchase... seller started acting flakey, and I found out he had hit a deer with the car (it was repaired, but still...)
so, I just put down a deposit (and am going to pick up tomorrow) on a 2015 S4, technik, black optic, sepang blue, sport diff, bang & olufsen, beaufort aluminum oak trim, adaptive suspension, H&R lowering springs, remote starter, and about 8,000 miles on it (13,000 km). Previous owner is the sales manager at the audi dealer, and he spec'd the car very well. I am planning to keep this one for 2 or 3 years, then possible pick up a cpo S7 or maybe even an RS7.

I predict that you will LOVE that car - congrats!

[hinckley]

I predict that you will LOVE that car - congrats!

+1. I think that you'll find that the S4 handles much more like your M5. It's not as luxurious as the A6 or 7, but it's a much better driver's car.

[doug97gxe]

Stage 2 that S4 ASAP

[Sean@APR]

I've had an E39 M5 and and E60 M5. You're going to be blown away by the ease of power on the S6, it comes on at low RPMs and stays throughout the entire shift cycle in all gears. The only drawback when comparing it to those two cars is that the steering feel isn't quite as sporty as on those models.

THIS. I was a BMW guy before I started working at APR. I went through a few dev cars, but I've kept the S6. It's kind of like the grown up big brother to the 5s that I loved so much.

[Sean@APR]

2015 S4,

Also a great choice

pick up a cpo S7 or maybe even an RS7.

Now you're talkin!