THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[skywalker15]

@STA4,

How the hell is a new head $4,600? I went to my local VW dealer (who has Audi connections) and was quoted $1,400 without new CAMs and $2200 with!

Oh, and I'm finding out that I was woefully unprepared to tackle this job. Apparently a couple of decades working on American cars doesn't really qualify you to tear down a German wonder engine.

I'll second your notion that working on these engines is another animal compared to American. Don't have quite the longevity as you do, but grew up working on American cars, super bikes and sprint car engines and while I got the job done, there was a lot of cursing involved while doing this job haha

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[cuda2000]

Got my tensioner replaced today on my 2010 Audi A4 Quattro 59,000 miles.
I called the Fort Myers Audi dealer 2 weeks ago, asking if they could do the work, they said they have not ever had anyone request it, and didn't know how much it would cost. They never got back to me.
Found a shop called VAP Motorsports in Fort Myers that specializes in Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche.
Called them up, they knew the problem with the tensioner very well, and was glad to hear I wanted to replace it preventatively, as they recommend it, and have had to rebuild engines because of the failure.
Got it done today, Tensioner # 06k-109-467-k $75.00 and Timing case cover 06k-109-210-af $179.00
Labor was $570.00
Total $887.90 with tax

Now I have peace of mind. Bought the car new in May 2010. Had the pistons replaced in January by Audi.

Oh, one more thing. The owner of the shop said that he has seen the new revision tensioner fail, but when it fails you hear a tapping noise at start up as it has a fail-safe so that it does not lose tension.

[hockeysc23]

Update after 4+ conversations with a high level supervisor, Audi claimed they looked into vehicle loyalty and since I don't have enough history with Audi there is nothing they can do. I explained to them this is my first one and the first opportunity for service that I took to an Audi dealer, so I don't know how I could do anymore. If a first time customer has problems how do you expect to keep that customer?

They had nothing and basically said decision is final. I let them know they've lost a customer. I am done with Audi based on the poor customer service. Now hopefully I can sell this car for some value and find something else enjoyable to drive. What a shame.

[MPOW33R]

Just bought a 2012 P+ and it has 129K, mint condition
all records Oil Consumption Part 1 done.

Called Audi Service Advisor he gave me some BS, saying the tensioner
will warn you, it'll rattle you MPGs will drop etc it'll this and that nonsense.. So he quoted me $1,400 for
preventative work and said big waste of money, these engines are bullet proof and you do not need it.
he also did say people with 3rd party extended warranty get covered for this all the time, i LOL'd but ok.

Mind you mine is perfect, runs great and etc .. so im opting
for an extended warranty through a company called ASAP ,
American Standard Automotive Protection 4.8 Stars BBB A+ Rated etc
now they have some fine print, here -

"6. Gasoline/Diesel Engine: Cylinder block, cylinder head(s) if damage by internally lubricated parts. All internally
lubricated parts including: pistons, piston rings and pins, crankshaft and main bearings, connecting rods and rod
bearings, camshaft and bearings, pushrods, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, seats and guides, lifters, followers, oil
pump, timing chain, timing gear. Valve covers, timing cover, and oil pan if damaged by internally lubricated parts;
vacuum pump, Seals and gaskets"

I called the rep and said is the tensioner covered? He said any lubricated parts that are in conjunction with the timing chain
are - now thats kind of gray and im not a mechanic - anyone who is or know can you chime in before I buy this?

thank you in advance !!

Is the tensioner a lubricated part of the chain see the print above ?

[Project Quattro]

Just bought a 2012 P+ and it has 129K, mint condition
all records Oil Consumption Part 1 done.

Called Audi Service Advisor he gave me some BS, saying the tensioner
will warn you, it'll rattle you MPGs will drop etc it'll this and that nonsense.. So he quoted me $1,400 for
preventative work and said big waste of money, these engines are bullet proof and you do not need it.
he also did say people with 3rd party extended warranty get covered for this all the time, i LOL'd but ok.

Mind you mine is perfect, runs great and etc .. so im opting
for an extended warranty through a company called ASAP ,
American Standard Automotive Protection 4.8 Stars BBB A+ Rated etc
now they have some fine print, here -

"6. Gasoline/Diesel Engine: Cylinder block, cylinder head(s) if damage by internally lubricated parts. All internally
lubricated parts including: pistons, piston rings and pins, crankshaft and main bearings, connecting rods and rod
bearings, camshaft and bearings, pushrods, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, seats and guides, lifters, followers, oil
pump, timing chain, timing gear. Valve covers, timing cover, and oil pan if damaged by internally lubricated parts;
vacuum pump, Seals and gaskets"

I called the rep and said is the tensioner covered? He said any lubricated parts that are in conjunction with the timing chain
are - now thats kind of gray and im not a mechanic - anyone who is or know can you chime in before I buy this?

thank you in advance !!

Is the tensioner a lubricated part of the chain see the print above ?

I would personally suggest paying for the preventative repair at an indy shop rather than buying a 3rd party warranty. Aside from Carmax those things don't have a great reputation.


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[skywalker15]

I can't speak to if that insurance company would cover the tensioner failing. I personally would think the tensioner would fall into that category..it's a part of the timing system so I wouldn't see why not. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fight it if you made a claim especially since it isn't specifically called out.

I would personally do the preventative maintenance however try to find a reputable Indy shop, there have been others who have had this performed for a lot less.

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[cuda2000]

Update after 4+ conversations with a high level supervisor, Audi claimed they looked into vehicle loyalty and since I don't have enough history with Audi there is nothing they can do. I explained to them this is my first one and the first opportunity for service that I took to an Audi dealer, so I don't know how I could do anymore. If a first time customer has problems how do you expect to keep that customer?

They had nothing and basically said decision is final. I let them know they've lost a customer. I am done with Audi based on the poor customer service. Now hopefully I can sell this car for some value and find something else enjoyable to drive. What a shame.

You paid $2400 to get your engine repaired at a dealer, correct? It runs fine now? Sorry but I wouldn't get bent out of shape over that. Some of the normal yearly maintenance inter als at the dealer costs over $1000. You got it fixed reasonably, could have been much worse. I just had my tensioner replaced preventatively and it cost over $800, not at dealer. I bought my 2010 brand new and got all required maintenance done at dealer. Do you really think Audi should treat you better than someone who paid $40,000 plus maintenances? Before you bought the car you posted on here and you were told you should buy CPO or get a warranty. You rolled the dice. If the class action lawsuit goes through in the next 12 months, you may get your money back. Wait and see.

[hockeysc23]

You paid $2400 to get your engine repaired at a dealer, correct? It runs fine now? Sorry but I wouldn't get bent out of shape over that. Some of the normal yearly maintenance inter als at the dealer costs over $1000. You got it fixed reasonably, could have been much worse. I just had my tensioner replaced preventatively and it cost over $800, not at dealer. I bought my 2010 brand new and got all required maintenance done at dealer. Do you really think Audi should treat you better than someone who paid $40,000 plus maintenances? Before you bought the car you posted on here and you were told you should buy CPO or get a warranty. You rolled the dice. If the class action lawsuit goes through in the next 12 months, you may get your money back. Wait and see.

Fair points. I think if it's a faulty part and I had the maintenance done by them they should try to rectify the issue to keep a customer. 2.5k or some portion now keeps me a customer for life and has me purchase my wife an Audi. But having a part that is known to fail, fail through no fault of owner maintenance cost that much I find unreasonable. I've had lesser car brands and other companies provide better customer service.

I wish CPO was an option but there weren't any when I purchased. The after market warranty I'd be fighting with a third party company and was 8k.

Maybe I'm off and if so I'm paying the bill. Just seems common sense and customer appreciation would have Audi trying to do something. Oh well I've learned and they've lost a customer.

I just hope everyone reports this issue so Audi is aware.

[cuda2000]

Fair points. I think if it's a faulty part and I had the maintenance done by them they should try to rectify the issue to keep a customer. 2.5k or some portion now keeps me a customer for life and has me purchase my wife an Audi. But having a part that is known to fail, fail through no fault of owner maintenance cost that much I find unreasonable. I've had lesser car brands and other companies provide better customer service.

I wish CPO was an option but there weren't any when I purchased. The after market warranty I'd be fighting with a third party company and was 8k.

Maybe I'm off and if so I'm paying the bill. Just seems common sense and customer appreciation would have Audi trying to do something. Oh well I've learned and they've lost a customer.

I just hope everyone reports this issue so Audi is aware.

You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

[hockeysc23]

You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

Respectfully I had the repairs done by Audi at the first service interval. There was no other applicable chance to establish an Audi relationship beforehand. If the refrigerator(or whatever product) has a faulty part then yes i expect a company to stand behind their brand.

If the issue is from my failure to maintain the product then I'd agree with you. This is from my research a part that shouldn't go bad this early if properly designed. So because they poorly designed I was hoping they would try to rectify the situation and earn a repeat customer. My wife is due for a car and wanted a q5. instead their line was not about the part but my lack of loyalty. How does one earn loyalty if their first one breaks? I've had other less expensive car companies stand behind their products including a VW I had that I also purchased used.

I'm either incorrect in the faulty of the part or we just disagree.

[elscotto80]

I can't speak to if that insurance company would cover the tensioner failing. I personally would think the tensioner would fall into that category..it's a part of the timing system so I wouldn't see why not. However, I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to fight it if you made a claim especially since it isn't specifically called out.

I would personally do the preventative maintenance however try to find a reputable Indy shop, there have been others who have had this performed for a lot less.

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I feel like it would be covered per the language you posted from their policy. I have the Audi Fidelity policy and it covered (partially) mine when I had it in for a ton of work. I was on the hook for some bits they didnt cover but got the new tensioner, guides, etc. Cost me about 500 on top of the 3500 the warranty folks covered for a long list of items my shop was able to get them to replace (mounts, bushings, propeller shaft, valve cover gasket, etc).

[IHave2Turbos]

@cuda2000

While your points are valid in many circumstances the manufacturer is legally required to support the car for the lifetime (reasonably) of the car regardless of which # owner you are. This is the basis of the TSB and recall process. This part is billed as lifetime, there is no service interval for it in the manual, the owner is not expected to know about the intracies of the problem based on bulletin board time.

There is going to be a class action about this part, AoA knows this. They should buck up and fix the $80 part when knowledgeable people bring the issue to them. This is no way to earn loyalty. Another random point, resale value of a car is a decision point for many buyers, if your 40+k car isn't going to be worth anything in 4 years you are probably not going to buy it. The manufacturer should be expected to step up in situations like this to EARN loyalty not turn people away because they don't have "enough" loyalty.

I think we'd have a lot easier time getting goodwill if they hadn't just gotten their dicks kicked in to the tune of $15 billion or whatever for their other scummy practices.

[JD23]

You are not an Audi customer. You bought a used car, not from an Audi dealer, never gave a dime to Audi, not even an oil change. Not understanding how you can expect to walk into a dealer and demand free service? If you buy a used refrigerator and 2 years later when it breaks walk into best buy and demand it to be fixed?

Did Takata use a similar argument? As mentioned already, it will not help any of our resale values if it becomes well known that the engines on B8s frequently grenade after only six or seven years and the manufacturer still denies the existence of a systemic defect.

[cuda2000]

If someone was injured or killed because of it, it would get recalled for sure. Problem is, it kills the motor on startup, not out of park yet, so no injury. Can't compare this to takata, people died when the airbags went off. I don't care about resale value, if I did, I would not have bought it brand new like I did. What I care about is driving it to at least 150k miles. I got my pistons replaced, and now tensioner is fixed, so anything else, should be less than $5,000 to repair, so that's still cheaper than buying another one, and you can't get the feeling of quattro on any other car. It is awesome. If you buy a used one for half the price of new, I can't see how you can complain about any repair less than $10,000. You still are not at the price of a new one.

[johnnySV]

I have a 2010 undergoing Phase1 oil test next week.

i inquired if the dealer could replace/update my tensioner at that time, since Phase1 includes front crank seal replacement, which is in the timing cover. I learned that the cover is not removed to do Phase1, so it's better to wait until Phase2 to do this.

If my car gets to Phase2, the dealer phone-quoted $0 Labor and $398 Parts to me for the updated tensioner. how can I get AofA to pickup that parts bill?

Thanks !!


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[cuda2000]

I have a 2010 undergoing Phase1 oil test next week.

i inquired if the dealer could replace/update my tensioner at that time, since Phase1 includes front crank seal replacement, which is in the timing cover. I learned that the cover is not removed to do Phase1, so it's better to wait until Phase2 to do this.

If my car gets to Phase2, the dealer phone-quoted $0 Labor and $398 Parts to me for the updated tensioner. how can I get AofA to pickup that parts bill?

Thanks !!


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If you get Stage 2 done, go to the parts counter, buy the tensioner for $100 and hand it to the service guy when you give him the keys. They will have the engine totally torn apart for the Pistons so replacing the tensioner is just the cost of the tensioner. Hope your tensioner doesn't fail by the time you bring it back in the next 1200 miles before stage 2 checkup.

[Jks2327]

My tensioner failed and now the engine is being rebuilt. i tried sending a message to Audi and all they could offer me was 15% off the repair only if I had it done at an Audi dealer....which isn't worth it so I'll keep it at the independent shop that has rebuilt plenty of Audi/Porsche engines for my family over the years. I've heard of others having more luck getting Audi to help pay for this, but what can you do.

[sidkneeeeee]

My tensioner failed and now the engine is being rebuilt. i tried sending a message to Audi and all they could offer me was 15% off the repair only if I had it done at an Audi dealer....which isn't worth it so I'll keep it at the independent shop that has rebuilt plenty of Audi/Porsche engines for my family over the years. I've heard of others having more luck getting Audi to help pay for this, but what can you do.

year and miles on your car?

[ak11214]

If you get Stage 2 done, go to the parts counter, buy the tensioner for $100 and hand it to the service guy when you give him the keys. They will have the engine totally torn apart for the Pistons so replacing the tensioner is just the cost of the tensioner. Hope your tensioner doesn't fail by the time you bring it back in the next 1200 miles before stage 2 checkup.

Wish you had written this comment earlier.

[Jks2327]

2009 A4 2.0t, 89,500 miles on it. The sad part was I had just had the water pump replaced 6 months ago and has no idea the timing chain tensioner was an issue until I found this forum and the class action suit

[Dzhedaj]

2009 B8 in Europe. Almost 180k km on the clock (~110k miles), has had a stage2 oil consumption fix done at 106k km (66k miles) - the chain was untouched by Audi.
Also had a leaking head gasket roughtly 10k km ago, during that head rebuild the chain and sliders were inspected (independent garage), had no visible wear, so no maintenance done on the chain.

Now 10k km later the car started misfiring heavily at low rpm and very low accelerator angle. Took it in for diagnosis, no trouble codes, nothing wrong according to the garage. Replaced the coils (just to be sure) - the camshaft sensor error popped up, chain started making noise at startup. Aftermath:
The chain has skipped 1 tooth, the sliders are all damaged, as well as the chain covers (both upper cam cover and the lower one). The tensioner is obviously also non-functional.

Read most topics on the forums, found nothing about the chain tensioner a year ago... had I known this was an issue, could've saved me a lot of headache..

[Gunnark100]

2009 B8 in Europe. Almost 180k km on the clock (~110k miles), has had a stage2 oil consumption fix done at 106k km (66k miles) - the chain was untouched by Audi.
Also had a leaking head gasket roughtly 10k km ago, during that head rebuild the chain and sliders were inspected (independent garage), had no visible wear, so no maintenance done on the chain.

Now 10k km later the car started misfiring heavily at low rpm and very low accelerator angle. Took it in for diagnosis, no trouble codes, nothing wrong according to the garage. Replaced the coils (just to be sure) - the camshaft sensor error popped up, chain started making noise at startup. Aftermath:
The chain has skipped 1 tooth, the sliders are all damaged, as well as the chain covers (both upper cam cover and the lower one). The tensioner is obviously also non-functional.

Read most topics on the forums, found nothing about the chain tensioner a year ago... had I known this was an issue, could've saved me a lot of headache..

Sorry to hear, regarding maintenance work etc use "east":) forums, constantly good companies on forum helping people everyday including dealer etc(not much help now but for future)!

[Tim R.]

I just had mine replaced. 2010 with 116k. It was the first gen tensioner so probably the original. Timing chain and guides in excellent condition. $77 for the part and $450 in labor. Now I can sleep at night.

The car had the stage 2 oil consumption fix at 90k and runs great with no excess oil use. The dealer never mentioned to the PO that the tensioner or anything else should be serviced at that time.

I saved the part and the receipt in case I can get any satisfaction from AoA as a result of the lawsuit.

[itlnstallion818]

I have a 2013 A4 CAEB, i had my long block replaced. Would this have been something that was done?

[Tim R.]

I have a 2013 A4 CAEB, i had my long block replaced. Would this have been something that was done?

Maybe, maybe not. Check the parts list on your invoice.

[Demringstho864]

I had everything replaced. Both chains, All Guides, Both Tensioners, everything. labor was the same price for just the tensioner. i just had them do everything. 107K miles. price was like 1900 bucks

[VNA4]

Had this fault code for a day...then it went away no code ever since. Went to my local shop ( Sprint Auto work) we didn't find any codes. But there were 3 Audi there that had the timing chain tensioner issue waiting to get worked on. All of them were 2010-2011...
For now ima wait and see if I get the code then replace it if not I'll keep and driving ( and praying)


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[A4 Centaur]

^ I wouldn't risk driving after seeing that code.

Bite the bullet and either get it fixed or trade the car in.

A grenaded engine will cost you tons of money.

[VNA4]

Quote from Allowencer :
"front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)"

When you say " that's if they didn't tweak/ bend it on removal " Do you mean its a must that this part has to be bent to be removed?
Reason I'm asking is because the shop I'm getting the timing chain tensioner work done told me it bents in the removal process so they had to order " timing cover" Which cost an additional 160$.


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[Gunnark100]

Quote from Allowencer :
Reason I'm asking is because the shop I'm getting the timing chain tensioner work done told me it bents in the removal process so they had to order " timing cover" Which cost an additional 160$.
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Just my expirience with this, everything was changed out, but not cover, oilleak after, so they did it again...looks like no leaks anymore, but will see(still old cover). Its a big job and they probably dont want to risk with it. Check for oilleak right away just in case, after drive!

[JVince]

I got my Stage 2 done cause mine was consuming lots of oil.

When I got my invoice I went through it and it look like they did the timing chain and tensioner as well.

I think when they started opening stuff up to do the job they noticed that it was all stretched and they replaced it while they were in there.

Do I have to worry about this issue coming up in the future?

[VNA4]

Just my expirience with this, everything was changed out, but not cover, oilleak after, so they did it again...looks like no leaks anymore, but will see(still old cover). Its a big job and they probably dont want to risk with it. Check for oilleak right away just in case, after drive!

They ordered a new cover cause the cover bent upon removal. I'm just wondering if it's procedure to replace or they fuck up and bent it, then ordered a new one and charged me for it


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[skywalker15]

They ordered a new cover cause the cover bent upon removal. I'm just wondering if it's procedure to replace or they fuck up and bent it, then ordered a new one and charged me for it


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I can't say whether or not it's "procedure" for them to replace, however that cover does bend very easily. The lower cover uses a gasket sealant so to get the cover off you have to essentially pry around the flange to break free from the gasket. The flange on the cover is very, very thin so it's pretty easy to bend or break depending on how old it is and how much force they use to get it off. When I took mine off, I was able to get it off without bending and re-use it but I can definitely see how it would be recommended you replace it.

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[VNA4]

I can't say whether or not it's "procedure" for them to replace, however that cover does bend very easily. The lower cover uses a gasket sealant so to get the cover off you have to essentially pry around the flange to break free from the gasket. The flange on the cover is very, very thin so it's pretty easy to bend or break depending on how old it is and how much force they use to get it off. When I took mine off, I was able to get it off without bending and re-use it but I can definitely see how it would be recommended you replace it.

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Got it, thanks for the reply Skywalker15

[STA4]

Got it, thanks for the reply Skywalker15

Yes, it's very difficult not to bend, so it's often replaced to avoid leaks.

[Marko S]

Replaces my upper chain and tensioner with all guide rails and put in a fluidamp. Labour was $1200 canadian and I bought the kit from ecs.

The tensioner looked in good shape but was the T revision off my 2011.






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[A4x]

Replaces my upper chain and tensioner with all guide rails and put in a fluidamp. Labour was $1200 canadian and I bought the kit from ecs.

The tensioner looked in good shape but was the T revision off my 2011.






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Where did you get this done at in the Toronto area? I will be looking to do this in a year or so....if mine doesn't blow before then. I'm also 2011. Is the T revision good or bad?

[Marko S]

Where did you get this done at in the Toronto area? I will be looking to do this in a year or so....if mine doesn't blow before then. I'm also 2011. Is the T revision good or bad?

I have no clue about the T revision but its the third. The k is the newest soI would think its ok. As I said, mine looked in good shape. Car has just under 100k.

I got it done at Independent Tuning in Scarborough.

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[DoooDahMan]

Mine blew up. 98,000 miles. 2009 A4 Avant. Needs a whole new head at a cost of around $5k. This is after having pistons and rings done at 60,000 for oil consumption and a new intake manifold at 62,000. AoA refused to help at all on parts or labor, dealer offered a discount on the labor. Mulling options now. Not impressed.

[misterpepper]

I've got a no start condition and I'm worried that it might be something under the timing chain covers. Probably not a failed tensioner, because looking through the inspection hole everything seems okay, although it is an old style tensioner and I have ~130k miles on the engine, so my plan is to replace it.

The car ran fine when parked but now trying to start it , it acts like something is binding in the engine, and relieving some pressure off the engine by rotating it backwards slightly at the crank caused a noise coming from under the upper timing chain cover that makes me think that something is either jammed between the chain and sprocket or that the chain has started to jump the sprocket and is getting jammed between the sprocket and the cover.

But let's say it is the tensioner and the timing chain has slipped enough so that the valves are hitting the pistons, would the starter motor alone have enough torque to bend the valves?