THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[kdaffy]

In the spirit of the oil consumption thread, I am starting this up as I believe it is as relevant to the B8 platform as the oil consuption issues.

There have been more and more of the timing chain tensioner failures popping up in posts so I think it would be beneficial to the community if we consolidate the information in a stick (paging admins)...

Info on pending class action:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

THREE class action suits filed for this issue!

Thread with some progress on the class action - looks like it has been filed: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ction-Law-Suit

Threads on the issue:

Member Jerritt: 2009 A4 110k miles http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member hockeysc23: 2012 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Abu_boost: no car info? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Allowencer: 2010 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member bagged00: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Jpitten: 2009 A4 96k miles: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner


DIY courtesy of Allowencer: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Check your tensioner/good video from huble mechanic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Please chime in with your experiences and missing info. Just wanted to get this started.

[TurboNate]

This is going to be a very depressing thread


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[Allan691]

This is going to be a very depressing thread

Brilliant first reply. 😂

[JD23]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

[kdaffy]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

[blbroo]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.

[Darksol80]

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.

When mine was replaced last year by West County Audi in StL they made no mention of previous oil consumption issues being related. My engine got the Audi rebuild in the 60k range and my timing tensioner was going with 115K or so on it. If prior oil consumption is a contributing factor then Audi should be replacing timing sets on ALL cars that have had oil consumption stage II done I would think.

[blbroo]

When mine was replaced last year by West County Audi in StL they made no mention of previous oil consumption issues being related. My engine got the Audi rebuild in the 60k range and my timing tensioner was going with 115K or so on it. If prior oil consumption is a contributing factor then Audi should be replacing timing sets on ALL cars that have had oil consumption stage II done I would think.

I need to meet up with you to see how our cars compare

[Azdramos]

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.

mine went out at 106500, you made a good choice

[blbroo]

mine went out at 106500, you made a good choice

Yep. Mine was down to about a tooth and a half before it failed.

[Lambda13]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

If that's the case that is good news for me.

[Lambda13]

Added this to the DIY compilation.

[The Infiltrator]

Sub'd

[rjohnson8911]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

[Allowencer]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?

[rjohnson8911]

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?

[Allowencer]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.

[rjohnson8911]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.

Just called the dealer that did the service, and the chain was definitely never replaced. Looks like I'm going to be adding that to the list of things to replace soon. I don't want to run the risk of the chain letting go. Thanks for all of your help on this!!

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[IHave2Turbos]

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

[IHave2Turbos]

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

Was anyone able to get at this counter?

[ddun]

You guys making me nervous now, been away but just started lurking again. I;m still only 67000 miles, but had the car since 09 with a shit load of mods. Thinking about jumping ship!

[hockeysc23]

Since my thread was mentioned. I have a 2012 Audi A4. No issues outside of replacing PCV. Check engine came on at 72k. Took it next day to reputable mechanic. They informed me I needed a new engine due to the damage. There was no poor noises, issues, or negligence done on my part. Oil was properly changed and car was babied. No mods and drove it relatively easily. Would start I think on average 4x a day (to and from work and an errand or two). I did purchase it used at 59k so I cannot speak to before that besides the CARFAX showed maintenance done by Audi.

Car is now with Audi of Arlington. And I'll be nicely pressing Audi to take care of it. A 2012 with 72k miles should not need a new engine, especially a luxury $40K car.

[Allowencer]

Well, you beat me to this 'thread'. I've been meaning to get it going.

From my theread, my post #6 and post #17 have more details and more examples of people that have had failures.

After talking to many shops and 2 dealers as well, this issue is starting to become much more known and for sure, poor maintenance intervals and/or not providing enough oil to the engine if you have oil consumption issues can bring this issue to light earlier than expected. Regardless, this issue doesn't occur because of either of those situations, it's going to happen, within time, because the timing tensioner is poorly designed.

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

This is, possibly, the smartest post I've seen in regards to this topic. Bravo; I'm being serious. Yes there is a counter and it's something we should track. I'll get mine so it can be added to this thread.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs Shows how you can check if you have the 'old', will eventually fail, tensioner.

[djapeA4]

Well, you beat me to this 'thread'. I've been meaning to get it going.

From my theread, my post #6 and post #17 have more details and more examples of people that have had failures.

After talking to many shops and 2 dealers as well, this issue is starting to become much more known and for sure, poor maintenance intervals and/or not providing enough oil to the engine if you have oil consumption issues can bring this issue to light earlier than expected. Regardless, this issue doesn't occur because of either of those situations, it's going to happen, within time, because the timing tensioner is poorly designed.


This is, possibly, the smartest post I've seen in regards to this topic. Bravo; I'm being serious. Yes there is a counter and it's something we should track. I'll get mine so it can be added to this thread.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs Shows how you can check if you have the 'old', will eventually fail, tensioner.

Is this problem solved for 2013 B8.5 (April 2013 in-service date), or do I need to be worried too?

[Allowencer]

I'd like to add, just as I've stated in my DIY motor thread (speaking of, I need to sit down and pump out another 'chapter' for you guys), if you swap your old tensioner out, save it! I want to see pics of it! Take the ring off, remove the pawl, flip it over and take a picture. Post it here for us please!

[Captain Amazing]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

[b6Hate4]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

[Captain Amazing]

Yikes, guess I'll keep shopping. Haha. Thanks!

[The Infiltrator]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

[bakedziti]

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

[The Infiltrator]

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

Damn... Well at least I don't have to pay for labor so I guess that's a plus.

[gt854t5]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,

[Poodini]

Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,

It sounds like they simply replaced the parts that were excessively worn or known to be problematic, i.e. your tensioner.

I can't speak to whether your dealership addressed this issue properly vs doing the minimum required. It would be helpful to know, for example, of those cars whose tensioners crapped out, were the other components like the guides and rails also worn down/in play. Speaking as a layman with no mechanical background, I would think a continually moving system like the timing chains should warrant replacing the complimentary parts that work with said system.
I was considering just doing the tensioner only kit. We already know that it's the principle culprit and subsequently has been updated. That said, if you're nearing/at the 90k mark and are planning to hang onto your B8 for at least another 25-50k, it makes sense to just do the full kit. A couple hundred extra is a small amount to pay for peace of mind and greatly increases not only the all around performance of your car, but it greatly reduces the potential for it going south. This especially holds true if you're running an ECU program or other mods to push our engines outside of factory settings.

Just my 2 centavos.



I'm having my kit installed Thursday. Will report back after work is completed.




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[Allowencer]

I checked all my guides and ended up not replacing them. Mine were still in very good shape and there was very very little wear. I know others have seen pretty significant wear so it all depends I guess.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Did you actually measure them with a caliper? Mine were worn; at least 0.08" on majority of the guides. Did you not have a lot of miles? That would be the only saving grace.

I haven't heard that kind of noise yet, and what do you think the smell of fuel could be coming from? Could it just be my injectors? That wouldn't explain the ticking though
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Agreed; injectors.

After reading the first link I think it might be my injector seal because one of them popped off when I was doing some carbon cleaning. I'm just wondering why I'm just now starting to smell it, when procedure was done on June 23rd.

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Yep, that will do it. You'll need the proper tool to install new Teflon seals on your injectors.

Looks like this thread has started some serious paranoia..myself included. I've been looking at different kits/tensioners and will be doing this in a month or so. As others have stated, while youre in there you might as well get the chain done. My question is, how far do you really need to take it.

Europaparts has this kit: https://www.europaparts.com/timing-c...0t-tsi-af.html

ECS has this kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2592683/

@poodini referred me to this kit on ebay as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301827892355

For preventative maintenance this seems like overkill to me..? From what I understand, IF the tensioner has stopped doing its job, then the chain would stretch so those two should be replaced. I don't see how the guides could be damaged from this? And only one of the two tensioners needs to be changed?

Obviously when I open it up and inspect it I'll be able to check out the damage if any, but I'd rather have the parts I need, and am trying to determine which ones aren't necessary (ie. replacing valves if there wasn't a failure)

When the tensioner goes bad, timing fails. It's not when the tensioner goes bad, the chain starts/begins to stretch. The tensioner has a piston, which only has a certain amount of throw to it. Once maximized, it can no longer provide proper tension on the timing circuit. Add in a motor that has been modified and is now producing more torque (that's really the key, not HP so much), it's only going to accelerate wear further.

Guides wear as the chain rides 'right' on them and oil in the front timing area is only delivered by 'splash'. Nothing directly delivers oil to the chains. That being the case, there will be friction and wear; especially over time.

Hi all- Just want to add my 2-cents to the discussion. I just had my Oil-C stage 2 completed and the dealer SA did suggest that I replace my T-Chain and tensioner and other misc parts.
Total cost was $416 for parts. (I did eventually get a discount but that is the original cost). Labor was "free" I suppose since the engine was already out. Note: I was not having any issues with my car, other than OC. I was at 54,385K miles when they changed the tensioner and per the invoice, it said "Found T-chain stretched, cambridge screen & tensioner replaced them". It looks like I have the "06k-109-467-K" Tensioner. Can't verify what the Original tensioner was since i didn't ask for it; my build date was Jan. 2009. They also replaced "AD Chain" and "J Bracket".
My Q is : Should other necessary parts have been replaced at this time? I would hate for another part to fail down the road which could have been addressed now. I do have 1 year warranty on this service so I and hoping for the best.

Cheers,

You are now running the latest tensioner and chain. You should be good to go for a long time now and should be able to sleep well at night. I commend you for doing this while you had the OC issue resolved. Also glad to hear your dealership did not charge you labor as they have to re-establish timing anyways when re-assembling the motor.

[weagle1856]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

What mileage was your car when you had it done?

[AutoRacer100]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

$400 for one tensioner and one set of timing chain? What?

[JBAeroEngineer]

$400 for one tensioner and one set of timing chain? What?

Parts should include tensioner, guides, rails, chain, etc.

[b6Hate4]

$400 for one tensioner and one set of timing chain? What?

Lol no. I replaced every single component of the timing system. 2 tensioners, 2 chains, all guides ect. Refreshed everything.

[AutoRacer100]

Lol no. I replaced every single component of the timing system. 2 tensioners, 2 chains, all guides ect. Refreshed everything.

What is the cause of failed timing chain tensioner? Is the updated version of timing chain tensioner has a stronger spring in it that keep the timing chain in place?

[Allowencer]

I should add in here, I'm willing to lend out all of the special tools you need to do any motor work for a fee. I'm thinking full deposit for what they are worth and then when you return them back to me, as long as they are in the same condition, I'll refund back the difference between a small fee and shipping charges. I think that's fair.