THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[jfo]

Robstar, what's the km's and how does the carbon buildup in the intake look?

[Robstar]

Robstar, what's the km's and how does the carbon buildup in the intake look?

The engine had the oil consumption done at 105K KM. I had the carbon cleaning done at the same time, which was june 2015

I obviously cleaned it again, but it wasn't too bad. The car now has 147k KM

[jfo]

This is just an FYI. While under the car today I took a look at my tensioner extension through the inspection port. It was replaced 2 years ago with the K version. After Robstars extreme stretch problem, I was curious about mine. At 78K km (49K M) I have roughly half of his km's. I was happy to see that I'm only one notch further extended than his tensioner with a new chain. The edge of the black metal part is above the 3rd ridge compared to Robstars at about the 2nd ridge as per his pic's.
This is a very easy and quick check to do if you're curious about how far the tensioner has extended, indirectly indicating the degree of chain wear. His tensioner was fully extended with 10 notches showing when it failed.(chain, not tensioner)

[mortimersnerd]

Definitely interested. Where is the inspection port?

[A4x]

They're really not, I'm always hard pressed to upsell anything on CAEB B8's. Most cam bridges and chain tensioners have been replaced, or are replaced during the piston ring replacement. Seeing that ALL 2009-2011's need that, there's really a low amount of people that go the distance to actually have a tensioner fail on them. I have yet to see one come into our dealership for that.

Mine is a 2011, I had oil consumption problems but the stage 1 new PCV, crank seal, and software seemed to fix that. I am worried about my cam bridge screen floating around in the engine, and the tensioner granading one day. I have 113k km.

Definitely interested. Where is the inspection port?

I second this. A short DIY to inspect the tensioner? Do we remove the belly pan and go from underneath?

[jfo]

Mine is a 2011, I had oil consumption problems but the stage 1 new PCV, crank seal, and software seemed to fix that. I am worried about my cam bridge screen floating around in the engine, and the tensioner granading one day. I have 113k km.



I second this. A short DIY to inspect the tensioner? Do we remove the belly pan and go from underneath?

Here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Yes, from underneath. Just pry the cover out, use a mirror and flashlight. The cover is a bit stiff, so to get it back in I seated it in the hole and then tapped it home with a breaker bar....not much room to press it in.

[jfo]

Mine is a 2011, I had oil consumption problems but the stage 1 new PCV, crank seal, and software seemed to fix that. I am worried about my cam bridge screen floating around in the engine, and the tensioner granading one day. I have 113k km.

You have the old version and should definitely replace it. Not cheap but way better than the alternatives. Thankfully my dealer swapped mine out when the stage 2 oil fix was done.

[TheOriginal]

Did the revised tensioner completely resolve the issue?

What is the part number for the latest revision?

[jfo]

Did the revised tensioner completely resolve the issue?

What is the part number for the latest revision?

It appears to have solved it. Look at the pic's in post #306 for the old and new version. They are visually different and the new version has K in the upper corner.

[TheOriginal]

Just popped the inspection cover off... it sure was a booger to get back on.

Mine is a build date Oct 2010 (2011 model) and i was definitely able to see that I have the old version. Good thing I already have a service lined up. I'm at 96k miles. Going to replace the chain while we are in their also.

[jfo]

Just popped the inspection cover off... it sure was a booger to get back on.

Mine is a build date Oct 2010 (2011 model) and i was definitely able to see that I have the old version. Good thing I already have a service lined up. I'm at 96k miles. Going to replace the chain while we are in their also.

if you are able, please have the tech compare the chains for the amount of stretch. It would be an interesting reference point at your mileage. I'm about 50% of yours and have what appears to be minimal stretch so far, based on what I see with tensioner extension.

[TheOriginal]

Ill check since Ill be helping. You have less than 50k miles?

[b8tamaster]

Finally getting timing chain kit and tensioner installed on my 2010 tomorrow. After 118,xxx miles, it's time. Also having new water pump and thermostat done, as well as new oil pump chain and tensioner.

I plan on driving the wheels off this thing so I figure I should be good for quite a while with major maintenance. I'm looking forward to the piece of mind. Ever since I hit 100K miles I wince every time I start the car.

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[red_stang65]

TheOriginal, how much are they quoting you for your 96k service + tensioner? I'm in the same boat right now.


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[IHave2Turbos]

Has anyone had any luck getting AoA to refund their service cost for pre-emptively changing the tensioner?

I understand the multiple class action suits revolve around people who had catastrophic engine failure to the tune of $5-6k bills.

I didn't want that to happen so opted to pay out of pocket to get the Timing Bomb removed on my own dime.

If so could you please outline your approach in receiving reimbursement for a self initiated repair/relief from this now well known issue?

[CONative]

I've asked about this on 2 separate occasions and never got a response. I'm with you in I want the peace of mind, but curious if we'll need to wait on the outcome of the suit to be reimbursed - which I think the answer would be yes


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[JBAeroEngineer]

Yeah, you're going to need to wait. AoA isn't going voluntarily do anything to jeopardize outcomes and money.

[Marko S]

Im also not sure if preventative maintenance would be covered. It would be hard to prove that there could have been a failure and that replacement was necessary. I did mine last year and have all the receipts so im hoping for the best. They might end up narrowing it down by manufacturing date.

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[TheOriginal]

Im in utah and their is a facebook group for Audi owners. One of the most active and reputable members does repairs on the side and i set up an appointment with him. Soooo what he is charging me is less than half of what a shop/dealership would charge. Thats also why I will also be getting my hands dirty/learning. We are changing out the chain, tensioner, and a few guides for less than $900.

[eirebob]

Had my tensioner work done last week... I'm just over 97K. Cost with a few other minor issues was not quite $1200.

Being an 09, the piston rings remain an issue, but I burn at about one qt per 4k. It's been consistent since the stage 1 work and follow up test at about 60k.

[wmcinnes]

And another one bites the dust...
2012 A4 w/165,000 kms
Timing Chain Tensioner failed and cratered the engine.

Wish I had seen these threads earlier. What a piss off.
Not sure what I am going to do now. Looks like there aren't any good used engines in Western Canada at this moment.

[IHave2Turbos]

sorry about your loss is there any way you can provide the list with your tensioner part number. The prevailing wisdom around the boards was that the 2012's were "safe"...

And another one bites the dust...
2012 A4 w/165,000 kms
Timing Chain Tensioner failed and cratered the engine.

Wish I had seen these threads earlier. What a piss off.
Not sure what I am going to do now. Looks like there aren't any good used engines in Western Canada at this moment.

[wmcinnes]

Pretty sure my manufacture date was September 2011 but car is a 2012

[Jmstrag]

To the guys who have already had this done...... was the timing chain cover also replaced? I've heard reusing the old cover can potentially lead to oil leaks. The new cover adds another $200 to the cost in parts, so I'm wondering how necessary it really is. Will it be fine with just replacing the gasket on the cover?

[Marko S]

To the guys who have already had this done...... was the timing chain cover also replaced? I've heard reusing the old cover can potentially lead to oil leaks. The new cover adds another $200 to the cost in parts, so I'm wondering how necessary it really is. Will it be fine with just replacing the gasket on the cover?

It depends on how the old one is removed. If there is no damage or if its not bent you can reuse it. With that said i replaced mine. $200 dollars is less than labout costs to redo it if it leaks

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[pierreb]

Yep, replace it.

[ians]

I just bought my 11 avant 2 month ago with 75000km on it and have 4yr audi used car warranty up to 140000km. It is 81000km now and it didn't show any kind of oil consumption issue yet. So should I do the pre-emptively tensioner work? Or any sign to tell my tensioner is going to give up? Will that cover by warranty?

[IHave2Turbos]

The general consensus has been absolutely zero forewarning until the tensioner blows.

If people have different info please provide here but most people have stated things like "I just got in, tried to start the car and got the CEL" at that point it is too late and the valves have already bent.

The faulty designs of the originally tensioners was that they relied upon oil pressure and obviously you have little to no oil pressure upon startup.

[tomc585]

The general consensus has been absolutely zero forewarning until the tensioner blows.

If people have different info please provide here but most people have stated things like "I just got in, tried to start the car and got the CEL" at that point it is too late and the valves have already bent.

The faulty designs of the originally tensioners was that they relied upon oil pressure and obviously you have little to no oil pressure upon startup.

Both style tensioners use oil pressure to take up the slack, the retainer spring clip (which holds a locking tab in teeth) prevents the tensioner from going back in during oil pressure reduction with engine shut down. Most Fault lies in the retainer spring clip either breaking or moving out of position or lack of oil maintenance resulting in a clogged or restricted oil inlet to the tensioner. This video may explain it better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs

[schubby333]

So my question is... if there's no warning or signs of a bad chain, can I get AOA to replace it with my CPO (certified pre-owned) warranty? Anyone have any luck going down this route?

[A4x]

Does the oil pressure remain in the engine for some time after shutting down? I have heard that oil pressure can still be there for a few hours...is this true?

So when going to get groceries, do I have to worry about my tensioner blowing in the grocery store parking lot? Or is it just on cold starts?

Unbelievable that I have to worry about this when owning an Audi. I hope this class action goes through soon. Im in a 2011 sitting at 75000 miles. I plan to change the tensioner eventually...(famous last words) sure hope not. Still CPO for 1 more month (but running APR stage II).

[IHave2Turbos]

as @tomc585 said the new design fixes/prevents the piston or whatever you want to call it from going back (ie getting loose).

I don't remember exactly which TSB or article I saw but basically if you look through the lower timing case inspection port and can see 2 or 3 "teeth" then the chain is OK.

But still change the tensioner if you have the earlier revision parts.

If you see 5,6,7+ teeth then the chain is stretched and you must replace that as well.

[Stix]

Another for list...
Mine's a Q5, MY'12, P+, 2.0T, CAEB, 68,900 mi. (majority hwy.), build date 3/2012.
Well maintained at or before schedule, oil change every 5000mi., no consumption issue, zero leaks, zero problems, runs like new, no CEL...blah blah..

Last week we checked ...it has the new version tensioner but determined the chain's at about '6'. Damn !
I travel, not interested in gambling on the road, so it gets opened up next week. Doing a new timing chain, tensioner, timing guides, cam adjuster control valve...for starters ? Having him check pistons and whatever else makes sense at the time.

Gonna be a salty bill, insane this is happening at this mileage ! Audi says no warranty, 'nothing we can do till a CEL shows'. Yeah, good idea, let's all wait till it blows. Morons.

[TJet1.8]

My understanding is that early 2012's still had the old timing chain/tensioner revision.
Anything with a build date after 3/2012 got the new timing chain/tensioner.

So yes...2012's are still susceptible to the timing chain issue.

[timob]

And it looks, in answer to the March question, is that in terms of any warranty, if you are within warranty and the engine self destructs as a first symptom they replace the whole thing, if it just rattles or the hole shows many teeth a week before expiration, you're on your own and you gamble on beating the reaper. Someone has posted a geek's trick to throw a turbo code for that warranty--is there one for this?

[choppstixxx]

Relatively new to the forum, but know about the TCT issue in the B8's. I recently bought a 2013 B8.5 (7/12 build date), would I be safe to assume I don't have the TCT issue?

[NJRoadFan]

My early build MY2013 was assembled 4/2012...... hopefully the change to the flex fuel engine included the revised tensioner.

[audiAYYY4]

2010 A4 here with 78k miles. Unfortunately, I did not get a new tensioner when stage 2 oil consumption was done in 2013 (wasn't even asked about it and didn't know it was an issue).

Dealership quoted $1300 just for labor, and this is beyond me to replace. I wonder on a weekly basis if I should part with this car or put up $2k to fix this. If this were the only fix and the car would be perfectly dependable afterward then I'd quickly be on board. However, that may be a bit naive for a high mileage Audi. Been chasing several problems this past year already.

Will follow the suit with great interest!

[peterjedi]

Didn't read all the messages in this thread, not sure if anyone mentioned the oil, but I recently bought my car to an Audi certified engineer for some after market work. He told me besides any design flaws with the engine (fixed or not), the oil Audi recommends is 0w40 (better gas mileage) which can cause problems around the warrantee period. This is a very thin oil. A lot can seep through the pistons. Over time this can cause stress to the timing chain and possibly break it. Plus Audi and BMW have been pushing for longer oil changes, like >= 10k. You could be going to all your scheduled maintenance and still run into a problem just before and after the warrantee period.

My Audi engineer recommend changing the oil every 5k and use 10w30 rather than 0w40. Engines that have 10k oil changes show lots of metal shavings, while engines that change every 5k were clean. I did search on google and found an old engine with 5k oil changes and it was in exceptional condition.

Just something to think about!

[jfo]

Didn't read all the messages in this thread, not sure if anyone mentioned the oil, but I recently bought my car to an Audi certified engineer for some after market work. He told me besides any design flaws with the engine (fixed or not), the oil Audi recommends is 0w40 (better gas mileage) which can cause problems around the warrantee period. This is a very thin oil. A lot can seep through the pistons. Over time this can cause stress to the timing chain and possibly break it. Plus Audi and BMW have been pushing for longer oil changes, like >= 10k. You could be going to all your scheduled maintenance and still run into a problem just before and after the warrantee period.

My Audi engineer recommend changing the oil every 5k and use 10w30 rather than 0w40. Engines that have 10k oil changes show lots of metal shavings, while engines that change every 5k were clean. I did search on google and found an old engine with 5k oil changes and it was in exceptional condition.

Just something to think about!

This doesn't really make sense. A 0 W oil is only thinner at cold temps. A 0W-40 will be thinner at cold start up temps, which is desirable, but stay more viscous at operating temp than 5W-30. This is basic oil chemistry. The shavings comment also seems questionable based on reading results of various oil analysis tests. Out of habit I do change mine at 5-6K, but don't feel it's risky to extend this somewhat.