THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[kdaffy]

In the spirit of the oil consumption thread, I am starting this up as I believe it is as relevant to the B8 platform as the oil consuption issues.

There have been more and more of the timing chain tensioner failures popping up in posts so I think it would be beneficial to the community if we consolidate the information in a stick (paging admins)...

Info on pending class action:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...engine-defect/

THREE class action suits filed for this issue!

Thread with some progress on the class action - looks like it has been filed: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ction-Law-Suit

Threads on the issue:

Member Jerritt: 2009 A4 110k miles http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member hockeysc23: 2012 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Abu_boost: no car info? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Allowencer: 2010 A4 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member bagged00: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Member Jpitten: 2009 A4 96k miles: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner


DIY courtesy of Allowencer: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Check your tensioner/good video from huble mechanic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65J1aEszyc

Please chime in with your experiences and missing info. Just wanted to get this started.

[TurboNate]

This is going to be a very depressing thread


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

[JD23]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

[Lambda13]

Added this to the DIY compilation.

[kdaffy]

Thanks for putting this together. It would be very helpful if those who have experienced failures could provide the year and mileage of their car so that a more comprehensive dataset can be compiled.

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

[blbroo]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

Oil consumption history would be useful to hear. When I have talked to dealers, they tell me to not worry because this failure only happens when someone consistently lets their oil get low, and that you will hear weird noises well ahead of any failure (I know, laughable)

This weekend, I ordered parts to replace my tensioner. Have seen enough tensioner issues now that I feel uncomfortable with the stock unit at 106,000 miles.

[The Infiltrator]

Sub'd

[Lambda13]

agreed - also, an anectode of driving style would be helpful as I've read failure is more dependent on the number of times you start the car rather than actual mileage. so if someone uses it only for highway long trips, you may get significantly more mileage on an original tensioner, than say a soccer mom carting kids around to various activities, grocery shopping and bi-daily starbucks runs...

If that's the case that is good news for me.

[rjohnson8911]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

[IHave2Turbos]

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

[ddun]

You guys making me nervous now, been away but just started lurking again. I;m still only 67000 miles, but had the car since 09 with a shit load of mods. Thinking about jumping ship!

[hockeysc23]

Since my thread was mentioned. I have a 2012 Audi A4. No issues outside of replacing PCV. Check engine came on at 72k. Took it next day to reputable mechanic. They informed me I needed a new engine due to the damage. There was no poor noises, issues, or negligence done on my part. Oil was properly changed and car was babied. No mods and drove it relatively easily. Would start I think on average 4x a day (to and from work and an errand or two). I did purchase it used at 59k so I cannot speak to before that besides the CARFAX showed maintenance done by Audi.

Car is now with Audi of Arlington. And I'll be nicely pressing Audi to take care of it. A 2012 with 72k miles should not need a new engine, especially a luxury $40K car.

[Allowencer]

Well, you beat me to this 'thread'. I've been meaning to get it going.

From my theread, my post #6 and post #17 have more details and more examples of people that have had failures.

After talking to many shops and 2 dealers as well, this issue is starting to become much more known and for sure, poor maintenance intervals and/or not providing enough oil to the engine if you have oil consumption issues can bring this issue to light earlier than expected. Regardless, this issue doesn't occur because of either of those situations, it's going to happen, within time, because the timing tensioner is poorly designed.

Is there a counter within the ECU that records the # of starts on the motor? Maybe VAGCOM can poll it? Surely it has to be recorded somewhere.

This is, possibly, the smartest post I've seen in regards to this topic. Bravo; I'm being serious. Yes there is a counter and it's something we should track. I'll get mine so it can be added to this thread.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAdSyBRHOPs Shows how you can check if you have the 'old', will eventually fail, tensioner.

[Allowencer]

Sub'd as well. Awesome info to have.
Sorry if this is a stupid question.. I tried searching a few times but no luck on an easily found answer. I have a 2011 A4 that I purchased about 20k miles after the original owner had the oil consumption rebuild done. The OC rebuild was done at 90k miles. In the parts breakdown sheet from the invoices, it shows that it was fitted with the updated timing chain tensioner, but not a new chain that I could see.

My question here is this: Do I need to be concerned about replacing my timing chain at this point (130k miles on the car, about 40k on rebuild)? I have read many differing opinions on this. At times I hear what sides like a chain ticking noise when I am sitting near a wall that it can resonate off of.... then other times I don't hear anything at all. The motors seem to make so many dang little noises that its hard to pin point what is "normal" and what is not.

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?

[Allowencer]

I'd like to add, just as I've stated in my DIY motor thread (speaking of, I need to sit down and pump out another 'chapter' for you guys), if you swap your old tensioner out, save it! I want to see pics of it! Take the ring off, remove the pawl, flip it over and take a picture. Post it here for us please!

[Captain Amazing]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

[b6Hate4]

For people who have had their timing tensioner replaced/upgraded. How much did it cost? I am talking about before it failed. I emailed a local mechanic and he wants $1300 just for the labour.

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

[Captain Amazing]

Yikes, guess I'll keep shopping. Haha. Thanks!

[Allowencer]

I should add in here, I'm willing to lend out all of the special tools you need to do any motor work for a fee. I'm thinking full deposit for what they are worth and then when you return them back to me, as long as they are in the same condition, I'll refund back the difference between a small fee and shipping charges. I think that's fair.

[Allowencer]

Also, B8Nate didn't have a failed timing tensioner, he broke a valve.

[kdaffy]

Also, B8Nate didn't have a failed timing tensioner, he broke a valve.

edited OP. thanks!

[rjohnson8911]

Can you post a parts list of what was replaced / a screenshot of the repair bill?

[bakedziti]

I contacted the lawyer in this thread, who is also the same lawyer that doowopaudi posted a while back in one of our threads.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hain+tensioner

Mine hasn't failed, and I had mine replaced during stage II of the oil consumption, but I suppose there's always a chance it will fail still.

[Allowencer]

edited OP. thanks!

NP. Did you scroll past my other posts? There's other edits you need to apply too.

[The Infiltrator]

I paid $700 for labor. $400 for parts.

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

[bakedziti]

So I should expect to pay $400 for the parts when I have the dealer do Stage II? Trying to figure what I'll be paying and have them change this out and the front and rear main seals while they're at it. I thought it was less, damn.

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

[The Infiltrator]

Give or take. I had them do the rear main seal as well while they were in there, and it came to approximately $475 IIRC

Damn... Well at least I don't have to pay for labor so I guess that's a plus.

[ddun]

I go in July 13th for surgery, will ask for the old tensioner to inspect for you guys

[kaz02a4]

The more I see these threads, the more worried I get about my 2012. However, getting info on the build dates seems to be key for the on the bubble folks. My build date is March 2012, which seems to fall outside of the revisions made in late 2011 to the tensioner. Anyone have info on the build dates involved? Or how I can (easily) tell which tensioner I have in?

I'm a little gun shy to this situation; the B7 A4 had issues with the cam follower, and a class action covered 2005.5 to 2007 model years. My dad had a 2008, and showed signs of follower wear, even though Audi claimed the issue was "fixed" for the 2008 MY. Not great.

[Allowencer]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.

[Allowencer]

The more I see these threads, the more worried I get about my 2012. However, getting info on the build dates seems to be key for the on the bubble folks. My build date is March 2012, which seems to fall outside of the revisions made in late 2011 to the tensioner. Anyone have info on the build dates involved? Or how I can (easily) tell which tensioner I have in?

I'm a little gun shy to this situation; the B7 A4 had issues with the cam follower, and a class action covered 2005.5 to 2007 model years. My dad had a 2008, and showed signs of follower wear, even though Audi claimed the issue was "fixed" for the 2008 MY. Not great.

If you watch the video I posted above, it explains what you can do to 'check' to see what tensioner you have.

Unfortunately, at this time, there isn't a list or lookup method where you can check, based on build date of the engine, what tensioner you have. Visual inspection is the guaranteed way.

[Allowencer]

OP - I've provided updates which you haven't added. I have more information as well that should be shared.

No offence, but if you can't, reasonably, update this thread to help the community, I ask you step aside and allow this to occur. Nothing personal or against you, but information, like this, needs to be crystal clear and complete.

[kdaffy]

OP - I've provided updates which you haven't added. I have more information as well that should be shared.

No offence, but if you can't, reasonably, update this thread to help the community, I ask you step aside and allow this to occur. Nothing personal or against you, but information, like this, needs to be crystal clear and complete.

happy to step aside...my life has precluded me from being as active as you expect me to be in this thread.

as this is a forum, i would expect all interested parties to contribute independently of the OP and add value. If you are adding updates, why not update this thread like the big boy you are

First, this should be a sticky - paging admins
Second, any and all forum members who can positively and productively contribute to this thread should do so on their own...we are adults, i dont need to hold you hand.
Lastly, @allowencer, I now appoint you chief thread updater and administrator, absolving myself of any future responsibility in this regard

[kaz02a4]

Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:

[Tim R.]

Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:

Great video but it would be nice to see what all the different versions look like and which are acceptable.

[rjohnson8911]

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this. I needed time to lookup all of those part numbers and knowing myself, I needed to do it in one sitting; otherwise, I'd fub it up. LOL
Here's the breakdown of each of those part numbers on page 2:

06d131550d - Gasket between turbo and PCV pipe
wht001319 - connecting rod bolts
wht001760 - crank bolt with o-ring
n90665001 - Flywheel bolts
n91143203 - Flywheel bolts
06h103383ad - head gasket
06f145757l - turbo oil drain flange gasket
8k0253115l - tubro to cat exhaust gasket
1k0253141p - Resonator to exhaust muffler pipe coupler
n91000101 - o-ring for cam control assembly on intake sensor bore
06d103385d - cylinder Head bolts
n10314506 - starter mount bolt
06h109469t - top guide rail, attaches to the cam control assembly
n10572403 - exhaust cam bolt
g013a8j1g - G13 coolant
06j115403q - oil filter
n0138157 - oil pan drain plug seal [crush] washer
g052167s0 - motor oil
n0138149 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjo bolt (I believe this is the coolant feed line)
n0138514 - sealing [crush] washer for turbo charger banjoy bolt (I believe this is the oil feed line)
d174003m2 - Audi gasket sealant
06k109467k - Cam timing tensioner, the new one. This is known by the 'K' at the end of the P/N
06h103144j - cam bridge assembly; WOW they replaced this for you. Must have been because of the filter screen
d000600a2 - Audi Liquid Lock (aka loc tite). Im wondering what this was used on... Nothing in the motor calls for this as far as I recall. Might be the trans bolts
06h105701r - Connecting rod bearings
n10554005 - valve cover bolts
wht006407 - coolant pipe o-ring that goes into the water pump
06h103121j - vacuum pump gasket

I'm quite impressed at the dealership that did the work. They were almost complete. Now, I say "almost" as I ask, is there a page 3 that you didn't take a picture of? I ask because here are some more parts that should have been replaced with all of this work:
- (4x) bolts found on the front of the cylinder head which go into the block. These are TTY bolts and should have been replaced
- Oil baffle / windage tray
- gasket for the oil baffle
- oil drain valve on the oil baffle
- front cover (that's if they didnt tweak / bend it on removal (I'm sure they did and bent it back, which isn't "OK" to do).
- Bolts for the lower timing cover
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Upper timing cover o-ring around the cam bridge assembly (it's called the camshaft o-ring)
- Intake manifold gasket
- Throttle body gasket
- Exhaust manifold gasket
- Camshaft end cap (06B103113C) since it seems like they removed the valve cover
- Oil pan bolts

To answer your question and concern:
For sure the chain was not replaced (unless there's another page as I mentioned earlier). I would highly recommend to replace it as I'm sure it was pretty stretched at 90k. Not trying to alarm you, but, personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. What you want to avoid is the tensioner extending to it's max and not providing enough tension. Without enough/proper tension, the chain will be exposed to more force and will wear prematurely.

Just called the dealer that did the service, and the chain was definitely never replaced. Looks like I'm going to be adding that to the list of things to replace soon. I don't want to run the risk of the chain letting go. Thanks for all of your help on this!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[belzebutt]

Any news for Canada? Mine just blew up, and it will cost me ~$6000 (still isn't finished). I went to a local mechanic since the dealer basically told me there would be no help and it will likely be more expensive. I wrote to Audi Canada and didn't hear back.

[Marko S]

Any news for Canada? Mine just blew up, and it will cost me ~$6000 (still isn't finished). I went to a local mechanic since the dealer basically told me there would be no help and it will likely be more expensive. I wrote to Audi Canada and didn't hear back.

Whats your milage and year of car?

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[Allowencer]

happy to step aside...my life has precluded me from being as active as you expect me to be in this thread.

as this is a forum, i would expect all interested parties to contribute independently of the OP and add value. If you are adding updates, why not update this thread like the big boy you are

First, this should be a sticky - paging admins
Second, any and all forum members who can positively and productively contribute to this thread should do so on their own...we are adults, i dont need to hold you hand.
Lastly, @allowencer, I now appoint you chief thread updater and administrator, absolving myself of any future responsibility in this regard

I completely agree and encourage anyone to provide value here. However, if that value / new details are not added to the first, main post, then it will be overlooked. You know, as well as everyone else, people will not read 'every' post in this thread so the other details will get overlooked. Again, I'm not trying to dismiss you, but since you clearly wanted to take the effort and role to start and run with this, all I ask is keep it moving forward properly. If not, let me know and I'll gladly do it. Your call.
Again, I see you edited it, but did not apply all the updates...

Allowencer, that's a great video for explaining why the tensioner fails. This video below explains how to (easily) check to see which tensioner you have. I know the OP includes the link, but I came across it myself and wanted to imbed it:

Yep, great video. I had this posted in the P0016 thread I started.

Great video but it would be nice to see what all the different versions look like and which are acceptable.

I think I can help with that . Give me a bit to gather the info.

Just called the dealer that did the service, and the chain was definitely never replaced. Looks like I'm going to be adding that to the list of things to replace soon. I don't want to run the risk of the chain letting go. Thanks for all of your help on this!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

No problem; anytime.

[Allowencer]

This is the tensioner that is the main stream one found in majority of the 2.0T short block:


The first 9 characters is the part number of the tensioner. The "IT" you see, in the picture, is the country code it was made in; this one is made in Italy.

In the upper, right corner you will noticed an engraved/stamped 'T'. This is an older generation tensioner which is prone to fail.

The other 2 generation models are 'N' & 'AB' (respectively: 06H-109-467-N, 06H-109-467-AB)

There isn't a lot of differences between 'T' / 'N' / 'AB' from what I can tell. I've only held 'T' in my own hands, so that's all that I can comment on (in regards to the older generation tensioners). Here are pictures of them I've found on the internet:
Generation 'N' (right) in comparison to the newer generation 'K' (left):



Here is an 'AB' older generation tensioner (sorry the pic is so small; that's the best I could find):



Here is the newest generation tensioner and what it looks like:


The retaining clip, in the picture, will not be there when it is installed in the motor. This holds the piston, within its bore, for installation purposes.

There are 2 key differences on the new tensioner:

#1: The new design, which replaces the pawl that was held in by a retaining ring, is a wrapping spring clip that goes around the grooves that are cut into the piston. You can just barely see it, under the clip. Here's a better view of what that clip looks like:


The one that is made in China, which I have no proof/evidence if it was a good component or not, looks like this:

If you were to ask me what one to get, I'd tell ya to try and ensure to get the Italian one

#2: Going back to the 1st picture of the newer style tensioner, you can see there is an engraved/stamped 'K' at the top. This signifies it is the latest revision.

- - - Updated - - -

Another great link with info and has been quite busy lately with people commenting that their tensioners have failed:
http://shopdap.com/2-0t-vw-and-audi-...oner-problems/