Anyone Consider going to an S3?

[treejs4]

Only reason this is a consideration is because I feel that our platform has come to a screeching halt on performance upgrades. Recently apr released their stage 3+ kit for the S3 which allows them to push 522 hp and even better is the price tag of only $5499 (I say "only" because something like that for our car would be 12k). Therefore, to get into a cheaper car and spend less money on go fast parts to actually go faster than we are currently makes sense. Only thing I hate though is that there's no 6 mt option. Anyone else think I'm crazy for thinking this way or agree?

[Sceanzo]

Doesn't that kit require a good amount of supporting mods? Not just $5500 and roll. Also at the beginning of dual pulley setups starting to put down some great times/power, I wouldn't say this platform is dead.

[harkema116]

Even with the supporting mods its cheaper than the 12k stage 3 that you still need to buy all the same supporting mods for on the s4 anyways! The new 2.0 is a monster. They ran a 10.8 1/4 on a Hybrid turbo not even a true big turbo. That's the current record I believe

I made the switch from my 2011 b8 s4 Apr stage 2 in March to a Golf R and couldn't be happier. To an S3 would have even been better just because of the interior upgrade.


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[Sceanzo]

Around 9 grand parts only no install. @Loe cuts an 11.2 with 2 pulleys and a flash

[harkema116]

And a Golf R does an 11.5 on 93 Oct with a tune and downpipe. You can play the game of which one is faster all day. But realistically it is easier/cheaper to get power out of a 2.0t just because of the volume of engine produced. Higher volume engines make tuners do more hardware/software updates launches etc

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[Sceanzo]

I don't follow the R/S3 enough to know. My brother has a stage 1 S3 and it feels fantastic. I'm unsure of the traps, but I believe they aren't as quick as the S4/S5? Correct me if I am wrong. My argument was being so close to 10s with literally 2-3 mods vs a stage 3 R/S3 that is full tilt. OP I enjoy both vehicles it's all personal preference. I've grown to love the size of my S4, highway behavior is great. I'm on my second S4, my first being stage 2 and that was plenty of power to get in trouble with on the street.

[Pared]

Maybe if you're only interested in HP. The interior of the car is so cheap it makes most of the time while in the car so blah.

[harkema116]

Well the fastest record right now is a 10.8 @ 126 on a Hybrid turbo. Pretty common to see the faster runs trap in the 122 area.

I find the interior is pretty good even in the golf r and the s3 is better than that even. Having a proper head unit that doesn't feel 15 years old makes a huge difference. That was my biggest pet peeve on my S4. The mmi was brutal.

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[harkema116]

I don't follow the R/S3 enough to know. My brother has a stage 1 S3 and it feels fantastic. I'm unsure of the traps, but I believe they aren't as quick as the S4/S5? Correct me if I am wrong. My argument was being so close to 10s with literally 2-3 mods vs a stage 3 R/S3 that is full tilt. OP I enjoy both vehicles it's all personal preference. I've grown to love the size of my S4, highway behavior is great. I'm on my second S4, my first being stage 2 and that was plenty of power to get in trouble with on the street.

I hear ya. I feel even with upgrading the turbo it's probably about the same cost as going full bolt on in an s4. By the time you pay for both pulleys, heat exchanger, exhaust, and tune the audi tax makes it pretty close to the same price I'd say. Considering you can send your s3 turbo to get turned into a hybrid for 2500 ish, 1300 for both a engine and TCU tune, downpipe for 800. So say 4600 and your at the same spot powe wise as a full bolt on s4. And I know I paid a lot more than 4600 for all my s4 bolt ons!

Basically all I'm saying is hp and speed wise the golf r/s3 takes it. It's still really early in the life cycle of these cars and tunes are being revised often and stuff is being developed like mad.

When it comes to the car itself, your comparing a 65000 dollar audi against a 45000 audi so you get what you pay for when it comes to interiors etc!

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[MrFunk]

There's more to a car than peak HP figures and 1/4 runs.
I'm sure a properly sorted out S3 is a fun car but lack of MT and no real overall improvement over the S4 (rather a step back in most respects) doesn't have me even fathoming the move. If I go turbo I'd want at least a 3.0 turbo or the lovely 5 cyl 2.5L turbo. I've done the 2.0t 4 cyl thing and meh. I also am not interested in modding a vehicle beyond stage 2. It's almost always more of a PITA than anything.

[adamkb26]

I'm considering the TTS for my next car which has the same engine. I thought it was fantastic to drive with an amazing interior. You give up some room compared to S3 but it's still a small car. The new TTS is like a cheap Cayman S.

[vwblackb5]

Would consider the RS3 maybeeeeee in lieu of F80 M3 if Audi NA doesn't bring the RS4 stateside. Otherwise, 6MT F80 M3 as upgrade to the S4 then on to test the delicious 911 Flavors, P-Car FTW!

As a side note, I have considered adding a MK7 Golf R to the stable, but not to replace the S4.


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[Hellahashtags]

I test-drove a used S3 before buying my used S4. The S3 has a few advantages: it's lighter, more direct, and the turn-in is much better. The S3 magnetic dampers are an improvement in both ride quality and sportiness over the S4 electronic/gas dampers. The S3 feels lighter on its feet when accelerating, although the 0-60 and quarter mile metrics are about even for both. The S3 backseats aren't much tighter than the S4's backseats, and the backseat measurement data shows the same. However, the S3 interior design isn't as fancy as the S4's and you don't get that unique supercharged V6 feeling. The key reason why I ultimately went with the used S4 is because there was no used car market for the S3 at the time (so I couldn't accurately value the car due to lack of comparables or even any KBB value to look at) and I was unsure of how the S3 would depreciate. Otherwise, I loved the S3 as much as the S4.

[xpoweruk]

Dual pulley S4/S5 will be in the 10s this year. will be nowhere near 5,500 for tuning though

[xpoweruk]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...er-Mile-Thread doesn't inspire me into thinking it would be worth while either

@Loe is making great progress with the S5 3.0 TFSI http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-490-118-98mph

[S4 00 2.7]

Would consider the RS3 maybeeeeee in lieu of F80 M3 if Audi NA doesn't bring the RS4 stateside. Otherwise, 6MT F80 M3 as upgrade to the S4 then on to test the delicious 911 Flavors, P-Car FTW!

As a side note, I have considered adding a MK7 Golf R to the stable, but not to replace the S4.

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f80 of course

[bayonet14]

I think if you had a previous B5 S4 like I did / the S3 is the same size. We have Rs here in NC is the 37k price range - so if "In" on a MQB platform it would be the R - but then you have the whole racer boy car thing - and well thats were the S3 is a bit more refined...well for a gray haired guy like me.

I like my S4 - but what I really want is the RS4 wagon here in the US...my German landlord had one and I always joked at the time that was the car my M3 wanted to grow up to be - and if I switched - it would be to a SQ5.

SO bottom line - you want refined get the S4 - want to save cash go for the Golf R ;)

[Loe]

Around 9 grand parts only no install. @Loe cuts an 11.2 with 2 pulleys and a flash

I was almost $2,984 into my set-up to run that [email protected]. Our platform is good value-wise imho, and we are bound to improve this fall 2016 - spring 2017.

[Sceanzo]

I was almost $2,984 into my set-up to run that [email protected]. Our platform is good value-wise imho, and we are bound to improve this fall 2016 - spring 2017.

Bingo that was exactly my point. My S4 will be getting dual pulleys this time around.

[treejs4]

I was almost $2,984 into my set-up to run that [email protected]. Our platform is good value-wise imho, and we are bound to improve this fall 2016 - spring 2017.

I appreciate the input from everyone but I guess my question was sparked more from trying to have something different from everyone else. It seems like every s4 is stage 2 and running the same numbers. I know very well the dual pulley setups are making great progress but again it's just a matter of time until everyone runs that too. Idk maybe I'm just getting bored of my s4 and looking to change it up :-/

EDIT: I guess I want more of a N54 platform experience of variety.

[agorich]

when I was in the market, my dealer pointed me in the direction of the 3 vs the 4. The selling point for me was the space. Yeah...the 3 is the same size as an older 4.....but it is still smaller than the current 4. I plan on holding on to this car and put car seats in it in a few years so space trumped track times.

[quickglx]

Coming from a b5 s4 avant, I'm loving the size of the b8. Wish there was an avant available stateside... Everyday driveability of the sc 3.0t is hard to beat. Every time I get into a 2.0t car makes me appreciate the 3.0t more- its so much more refined. I do miss the rush when the turbos finally spool on my old stg 3 2.7t. And the sound of the turbos... The linear ouput of the 3.0t feels deceiving, it is faster than it feels. I think the 2.0t just lacks the displacement to make daily driving as enjoyable to me. A 4.0t would be quite nice in this platform I think!

[KnewJack]

Coming from a b5 s4 avant, I'm loving the size of the b8. Wish there was an avant available stateside... Everyday driveability of the sc 3.0t is hard to beat. Every time I get into a 2.0t car makes me appreciate the 3.0t more- its so much more refined. I do miss the rush when the turbos finally spool on my old stg 3 2.7t. And the sound of the turbos... The linear ouput of the 3.0t feels deceiving, it is faster than it feels. I think the 2.0t just lacks the displacement to make daily driving as enjoyable to me. A 4.0t would be quite nice in this platform I think!

I agree. I've done the whole tuned to the bleeding edge 2.0l turbo thing. And to get upwards of 500whp out of a 2.0l on stock internals you will be on the bleeding edge. It is fun but gets old after awhile for a DD, at least for me now as an older adult with two kids in college. It's cool as a dedicated track car, but everyday drivability and civility matter to me now and the more refined S4 even tuned to run low 11's still seems refined and almost effortless in it's speed. There is a lot more left in the platform I believe also.

Man, if they offered that marvelous 4.0 tfsi in a compact platform like the S4 it would be game over. Some mad scientist will do a swap down the road I'm sure! Hell in New Zealand they drop that Toyota 1UZFE in everything! Lol

[bayonet14]

I did for a second - but I would go w/the R

S4 is more refined - S3 more refined than the Golf....just comes down to how much you want to spend

The S3 reminded me ALOT of my B5 S4 due to size ;)

[NY_Quattro]

Would consider the RS3 maybeeeeee in lieu of F80 M3 if Audi NA doesn't bring the RS4 stateside. Otherwise, 6MT F80 M3 as upgrade to the S4 then on to test the delicious 911 Flavors, P-Car FTW!

As a side note, I have considered adding a MK7 Golf R to the stable, but not to replace the S4.


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You and I are on the same page. An F80 M3 will be my next car in a year or two.

I appreciate the input from everyone but I guess my question was sparked more from trying to have something different from everyone else. It seems like every s4 is stage 2 and running the same numbers. I know very well the dual pulley setups are making great progress but again it's just a matter of time until everyone runs that too. Idk maybe I'm just getting bored of my s4 and looking to change it up :-/

EDIT: I guess I want more of a N54 platform experience of variety.

At the risk of getting flamed, I came from an N54 to my S4 and the tunability of that car is amazing. Not to mention new tuning advances are still coming strong. Ken Atkinson (Wedge) has done huge things for the platform and has broken many tuning barriers. If you really have the need for speed do a single turbo build and 800whp is easily attainable on a 6MT car! Otherwise you can pull 450-480whp out of the stock turbos now that inlets have gone mainstream. I miss that car and am still kicking myself for selling it.

[torinalth]

short answer: no.

long answer: interior is shit, inferior AWD, sounds terrible. I don't have to be the fastest on the road, so I couldn't care less. Even then I'd go golf R not S3 due to weight. Yes, they can get stupid fast in their stage 3 trim. But even as slower I'd rather run dual pulley E85 on the S4. Close friend has an S3 and I just can't get into it. He loves it, it shifts nice, but I just dont like the car at all. S4 is ideal for size, power, feel, trim, etc. everything else sacrifices too much.

[shoe3k]

I sat in an S3 and the interior wasn't bad but the legroom was horrible width wise. I'm 6'3 and my knees kept hitting the sides when trying to get into a comfortable position. If you are still considering an S3 you should really take a look at the Golf R and avoid the Audi tax.

[will13k7]

when I list all the positives about the s4, "real" quattro, sports diff, instant responsiveness of the supercharger, more luxurious interior, great sounding v6, I should like it better than the s3, but I don't. the s4 is deceptively fast, you really don't feel its speed, and then you look down at your dash, and say, oh shit, too fast. once you get used to its weight, it doesn't feel big and heavy, that is, until you get into a lighter and more agile car. the 4 is a great fun car, but there is a little more of a fun factor with the 3 in my opinion, in the corners, and in a straight line. to me, it just feels faster, even though it might not really be much or any faster, and you can just toss it around the corners with little effort.

[Loe]

You and I are on the same page. An F80 M3 will be my next car in a year or two.



At the risk of getting flamed, I came from an N54 to my S4 and the tunability of that car is amazing. Not to mention new tuning advances are still coming strong. Ken Atkinson (Wedge) has done huge things for the platform and has broken many tuning barriers. If you really have the need for speed do a single turbo build and 800whp is easily attainable on a 6MT car! Otherwise you can pull 450-480whp out of the stock turbos now that inlets have gone mainstream. I miss that car and am still kicking myself for selling it.

our cars are getting to higher and higher levels soon with our stock s/c's, we just need more and more people who are willing to spin them beyond it's efficiency range, just like the stock turbo's N54 guys who still manage to make power with better cooling, fueling, and lowered path resistance into the turbine. We also need people who go outside of the box and stop relying on tuners first for a solution for everything when we have all of the right ingredients right in front of us.

[NY_Quattro]

our cars are getting to higher and higher levels soon with our stock s/c's, we just need more and more people who are willing to spin them beyond it's efficiency range, just like the stock turbo's N54 guys who still manage to make power with better cooling, fueling, and lowered path resistance into the turbine. We also need people who go outside of the box and stop relying on tuners first for a solution for everything when we have all of the right ingredients right in front of us.

Fair point. I really enjoyed my N54 but am enjoying the change of pace with the SC V6. Wedge was the first to spin the stock turbos past their "safe range" and everyone slammed him for it. Now everyone is running 20-21lbs and some up to 24-26lbs on stockers. I agree, it takes risk to find the limits of the platform!

Just from being in the Audi world for a few months I've seen good progress! I'm holding off on getting a tune and other performance mods because of the solutions still "in the works". Excited to see what's coming.


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[saxon]

having had both its a very hard decision

the s4 is more of a "cruiser" while the s3 can be a lot more fun.

s4 you can just hit the gas anywhere and it accelerates, the s3 you need to be above 2000 rpm.
s4 interior is a little bigger in the rear but comparable for the front
s4 is power limited and i seriously doubt it will hit 10's unless its a stripped out car on slicks
s3 is very easily upgraded to run faster and it is still in its infancy
s3 has better handling, feels "lighter"
s3 better fuel economy
s4 can run more aggressive wheels
repair costs on an s3 are significantly cheaper due to more production numbers and sharing across platforms (transmission can be had used under 3000 and motor under 3000)

[Loe]

^^ the A3/S3 has a rockin B/O system too ! I love getting them as loaners for that reason.

[EBS4]

Having driven both I prefer the S4. The S3 does feel lighter but it understeers worse than the S4 and has no sports diff to compensate. Also people think the S3 is fast bc it has a hint of lag. Neither one of these cars is close to being agile IMO. I prefer the S4s interior, seats, and exterior styling. If I could live with a mini-me type car I would probably go for an M2..but I can't get over these cars with awkward proportions. They just look deformed to me and make me nauseous.

EBS4

[chaos2984]

Around 9 grand parts only no install. @Loe cuts an 11.2 with 2 pulleys and a flash

Where did you come up with this number? I would think the max price you would have to pay would be 5K all in even with a DSG tune as well. Don't know where you got that number. And I sat in an A3 and drove one before I bought the S4. I was thinking about getting a S3 before they came out but I didn't like 2 things about it. The blind spots and the MMI buttons. And the S4 is bigger which im glad I got that instead. And the Quattro is so much better in the 4 than the 3. I wasn't to fond of the S3 seats at launch. But they fixed that mid year. I am considering a RS3 since the new S4 isn't that good looking and the interior layout is crap.

[doug97gxe]

I sat in an S3 and the interior wasn't bad but the legroom was horrible width wise. I'm 6'3 and my knees kept hitting the sides when trying to get into a comfortable position. If you are still considering an S3 you should really take a look at the Golf R and avoid the Audi tax.

the Interior volume is very close.. the trunk is where it's smaller than the S4..

OP sounds like you want an S3 .. go buy one

edit.. not the OP mixed him up with someone else

[The Fat Kid]

I would buy a Golf R over the S3, but consider both downgrades from the S4. I love the Golf R, but it is based off a $15k car...

You can pick up a well-equipped CPO F80 M3 for ~$65k, which would be one of my top choices for an upgraded sport sedan.

[doug97gxe]

I would buy a Golf R over the S3, but consider both downgrades from the S4. I love the Golf R, but it is based off a $15k car...

You can pick up a well-equipped CPO F80 M3 for ~$65k, which would be one of my top choices for an upgraded sport sedan.

the Golf R is now offered in MT too as well


#PlotTwist .. wonder if you can stuff a Golf R MT in an S3

[The Fat Kid]

the Golf R is now offered in MT too as well


#PlotTwist .. wonder if you can stuff a Golf R MT in an S3

I would consider going back to a manual transmission if I went M3/911, but would only consider the DSG in the R; real-world results with the manual R are not great.

[shoe3k]

the Interior volume is very close.. the trunk is where it's smaller than the S4..

OP sounds like you want an S3 .. go buy one

The interior volumes of cars can be misleading, which is why it is important to actually go sit in a car. The legroom of a car can be a very inaccurate and really give poor expectations and you can see that Audi gives the S3 and S4 the same measurement for legroom, which is BS. I have driven the Golf R and sat in the S3. Both of these cars are fine if you adjust the seat pretty far back if you have long legs but makes it very uncomfortable for a tall person to sit in the back. With the S4, if I have a tall person in the back, I can move the seat forward but still be comfortable driving, which is not true for the S3 or Golf. Also, I could not fit a car seat and two kids in the back comfortably with the S3 but had no problem with the S4.

Anyway, if the OP does not need the extra room or cargo space in the trunk go for it.

[doug97gxe]

The interior volumes of cars can be misleading, which is why it is important to actually go sit in a car. The legroom of a car can be a very inaccurate and really give poor expectations and you can see that Audi gives the S3 and S4 the same measurement for legroom, which is BS. I have driven the Golf R and sat in the S3. Both of these cars are fine if you adjust the seat pretty far back if you have long legs but makes it very uncomfortable for a tall person to sit in the back. With the S4, if I have a tall person in the back, I can move the seat forward but still be comfortable driving, which is not true for the S3 or Golf. Also, I could not fit a car seat and two kids in the back comfortably with the S3 but had no problem with the S4.

Anyway, if the OP does not need the extra room or cargo space in the trunk go for it.

interesting because i noticed the M2's interior volume was more than the S5 and i'm still trying to wrap my head around it