Stroker Build Questions and Opinions?

[FromS60toB61.8t]

So, I'm starting this thread because my engine is toast and im going to rebuild it and stroke it while im at it.

I picked up an ALH TDi crank already (95.5mm stroke) and i'd like to get some input from people who have done a stroker build on bore size and compression ratio.

My cylinder walls are scored, so i will most likely have to run atleast 82mm bore on the pistons. I already have IE rods and calico coated bearings as well.

Current setup will be a GTX2867r T3 Twinscroll, dual wastegate dump. 600hp Garrett core, 1000cc injectors, 365lph fuel pump, 3" billet MAF, AEB head and intake mani on Meth. Head will currently only have exhaust valves upgraded so i wont be revving very high.

Im not against trying a bigger EFR setup or a GTX40 series next year to try to get into the 700's possibly.

All that being said, Ive read mixed reviews on the compression ratios. Alot of people say to drop the compression ratio for turbo setups, and others say to keep it near stock or go to 9.5:1. Before i pull the trigger on pistons, id like to get some input from people on them.

This car is not a daily driver, but it will be driven on the streets.

I would also like to hear some input from people on going with JE vs Supertech or maybe another brand that someone can recommend. I like the price point of the supertech, but the design of them is much different than the JE so im not sure if theyre better or worse for our cars.

[redline380]

Preface- My engine is not stroked.


When I built my motor, I did the "smart" thing since my car was the only car I owned at the time. I bought a junkyard longblock for $200. Got it home took it apart and found out that the valves in #3 hole broke and bounced around in there. Needless to say, the head was junk, and so was that piston. Instead of try to track down another AUG piston, I went online to find a good deal on a new set. And I am came across a awesome deal on Mahle Powerpak pistons, $325 for the set.

Caveat- Weird ass size. First over bore on a 1.8t is .5mm over, so 81.5mm bore. These pistons were 81.25mm bore. Also, the compression ratio is 8.5:1, so very low. That coupled with my .86 t25 hotside on my 2871r leads to very slow spool. However, the thing has awesome top end and pulls great in third gear over 5k rpms.

Should I have spent a few hundred extra and gotten higher compression pistons, like 9.5:1? Yes, I should have. If you are going to run e85, that is all the more reason to get higher compression. Off boost my car is a dog, on boost it is awesome. But that lag is not very good.

While shopping for pistons, I highly recommend Mahle Powerpaks. You won't find a set as cheap as I did, but as far as I am concerned, they are the best on the market. Very high quality pieces.







Video to show 2nd gear lag










go to 3:45 for 4th gear pull

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Preface- My engine is not stroked.


When I built my motor, I did the "smart" thing since my car was the only car I owned at the time. I bought a junkyard longblock for $200. Got it home took it apart and found out that the valves in #3 hole broke and bounced around in there. Needless to say, the head was junk, and so was that piston. Instead of try to track down another AUG piston, I went online to find a good deal on a new set. And I am came across a awesome deal on Mahle Powerpak pistons, $325 for the set.

Caveat- Weird ass size. First over bore on a 1.8t is .5mm over, so 81.5mm bore. These pistons were 81.25mm bore. Also, the compression ratio is 8.5:1, so very low. That coupled with my .86 t25 hotside on my 2871r leads to very slow spool. However, the thing has awesome top end and pulls great in third gear over 5k rpms.

Should I have spent a few hundred extra and gotten higher compression pistons, like 9.5:1? Yes, I should have. If you are going to run e85, that is all the more reason to get higher compression. Off boost my car is a dog, on boost it is awesome. But that lag is not very good.

While shopping for pistons, I highly recommend Mahle Powerpaks. You won't find a set as cheap as I did, but as far as I am concerned, they are the best on the market. Very high quality pieces.

Good info there. See with the increase in displacement, i was hoping that it would make up for the low compression. That paired to a .82ar twin scroll GTX.

the best prices i have found so far are either:
Supertech 8.7:1 compression, 82.5mm bore, 95.5mm stroke supertech pistons for $499
or i also found 8.5:1 or 9.5:1 JE 83mm bore, 95.5mm stroke JE pistons paired with IE rods for $979 (id sell off the rods afterwards)

The thing that draws me to the supertech pistons though, is that they are already coated from the factory as the JE is an extra option for $100.

From a quick search i just did, they dont offer the Mahle powerpacks with the 95.5mm stroke, only the 2.0 crank 92.8mm stroke.

[redline380]

I really haven't heard much good about supertech pistons, or JE for that matter. Or wiseco lol. Maybe it is the indian and not the arrow?

The thing is that 95.5 stoke is not really ideal for our engines. There is a reason it isn't very common. The rod angle on a stock stroke engine already sucks, and extending the stroke nearly 10mm won't help at all. Also, there is not much availability for off the shelf parts when it comes to that stroke because no one uses it. If you are intent on using that crank, I'd probably go with supertech.

It isn't your daily, so reliability doesn't really matter. But it does suck throwing a bunch of time and money at a car just to have it break, especially something so critical.

Your displacement increase will get you a little more power off the line, but let's be honest, the VW 2.0 is not nicknamed the 2.slow for no reason. A competent tuner can help alleviate that with additional timing down low, but it still wont be any rocketship off the line.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I really haven't heard much good about supertech pistons, or JE for that matter. Or wiseco lol. Maybe it is the indian and not the arrow?

The thing is that 95.5 stoke is not really ideal for our engines. There is a reason it isn't very common. The rod angle on a stock stroke engine already sucks, and extending the stroke nearly 10mm won't help at all. Also, there is not much availability for off the shelf parts when it comes to that stroke because no one uses it. If you are intent on using that crank, I'd probably go with supertech.

It isn't your daily, so reliability doesn't really matter. But it does suck throwing a bunch of time and money at a car just to have it break, especially something so critical.

Your displacement increase will get you a little more power off the line, but let's be honest, the VW 2.0 is not nicknamed the 2.slow for no reason. A competent tuner can help alleviate that with additional timing down low, but it still wont be any rocketship off the line.

My heart isn't set on using it, but for $140 shipped, i had to jump on it haha. If i can find a cheaper 2.0 crank, i think i would much more prefer that since there are so many more options for that setup. I've done a crash course in research on stroker builds so im by no means educated enough yet. Just from past trolling on the forums, i just remember people talking about the tdi crank alot so since one presented itself, i jumped on it.

with the FSI crank, what oil pump gear do you use? or is it best to just get the one from IE?

[redline380]

My heart isn't set on using it, but for $140 shipped, i had to jump on it haha. If i can find a cheaper 2.0 crank, i think i would much more prefer that since there are so many more options for that setup. I've done a crash course in research on stroker builds so im by no means educated enough yet. Just from past trolling on the forums, i just remember people talking about the tdi crank alot so since one presented itself, i jumped on it.

car-part.com. Find a 2.0 with bent valves, buy it for $100, and just keep the crank. Could maybe get it done cheaper than that even.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

car-part.com. Find a 2.0 with bent valves, buy it for $100, and just keep the crank. Could maybe get it done cheaper than that even.

PM'd ya for some more info.

[Wet0willy01]

The rod ratio is terrible with a 95.5mm stroke. I scored an AEG crank on Ebay for 65 dollars shipped. Also picked up a FSI long block for $50 IE makes the oil pump gear for the conversion when using the FSI crank.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...I-or-AEG-crank

[redline380]

Think I got him talked into an AEG crank

[FromS60toB61.8t]

The rod ratio is terrible with a 95.5mm stroke. I scored an AEG crank on Ebay for 65 dollars shipped. Also picked up a FSI long block for $50 IE makes the oil pump gear for the conversion when using the FSI crank.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...I-or-AEG-crank

Are there modifications needed to make the FSI long block work?

I think i just scored an AEG crank for under $100, but we'll see haha.

Shit, at this point, i should just steal the engine out of my fiancee's fahrenheit

Think I got him talked into an AEG crank

I've been seeing alot of posts about the negatives of the 95.5mm stroke recently, you just merely confirmed it haha

[Wet0willy01]

I meant I got the whole long block for $50. So I have a crank, and scrap the rest. Cheap FSI crank score.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I meant I got the whole long block for $50. So I have a crank, and scrap the rest. Cheap FSI crank score.

Ahhhh ok gotcha. Yea thats not bad at all haha.

Hopefully ill get my block drained and disassembled today so i can bring it down to a machine shop and see what kind of bore ill have to do to get rid of the scoring on the walls.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I'd also like to ask about connecting rods. Has anybody tried the Eagle or the CXRacing rods? they look exactly the same as IE rods but for more than half the price.

The rods i have are 19mm wrist pin so ill have to upgrade those as well.

[Wet0willy01]

I woundnt have an concern running eagle rods. Cx Racing I'd be leary of. IMO.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I woundnt have an concern running eagle rods. Cx Racing I'd be leary of. IMO.

Good to know. I know of one person with the CXRacing ones, but they dont come with bolts or bearings so it might end up being the same price as eagle in the end. I know eagles can be had in the neighborhood of $300

[redline380]

I use no name forged rods in my car. I'm sure they are the same thing as ebay rods.

They look sooooo similar to all the other rods out there, eagle, IE, the lot. I am 99.9% convinced all h-beam rods that have that "look" come out of the same chinese foundry. I have posted this feeling numerous times and no one has rebutted it. I will say though that perhaps IE does some additional revisions in house, such as balancing. But I have been running mine for 10k miles with fine results.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I use no name forged rods in my car. I'm sure they are the same thing as ebay rods.

They look sooooo similar to all the other rods out there, eagle, IE, the lot. I am 99.9% convinced all h-beam rods that have that "look" come out of the same chinese foundry. I have posted this feeling numerous times and no one has rebutted it. I will say though that perhaps IE does some additional revisions in house, such as balancing. But I have been running mine for 10k miles with fine results.

pretty much look for 144x20 rods with 50.6mm for the big en journal right? As for bearings, any recommendations on those? I have calico coated main bearings already that i got from IE the first time around. Are there good brand names for bearings?

[redline380]

pretty much look for 144x20 rods with 50.6mm for the big en journal right? As for bearings, any recommendations on those? I have calico coated main bearings already that i got from IE the first time around. Are there good brand names for bearings?

Mahle/Clevite. Pretty much anything you can use Mahle is a good idea.

I got mine from IE a few years ago, Kolbenschmidt is the name. Not as good as Mahle though. Those guys have a reputation for a reason.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Mahle/Clevite. Pretty much anything you can use Mahle is a good idea.

I got mine from IE a few years ago, Kolbenschmidt is the name. Not as good as Mahle though. Those guys have a reputation for a reason.

Good to know. I wasn't aware of mahle's reputation haha. I knew Audi used some parts but wasn't aware of the race application credibility.

Edit: got a crank for $80 shipped

[redline380]

Good to know. I wasn't aware of mahle's reputation haha. I knew Audi used some parts but wasn't aware of the race application credibility.

Mahle powerpaks are what NASCAR and F1 guys use. They are no joke.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Mahle powerpaks are what NASCAR and F1 guys use. They are no joke.

The more you know... Haha

Has anyone had good results in a stroker build around 450 at the wheels with 9.5:1 compression? I've read on the supra and gtr forums that plenty of people do 9.5:1 on 700+ hp builds, but then again, those engines are a whole different animal. Just curious. Would be nice to have a quicker peppy spool.

[diagnosticator]

Mahle powerpaks are what NASCAR and F1 guys use. They are no joke.

I think you should try a smaller A/R turbine housing to address the lag in the spool up of your turbo. Being a street car, top end power is not as useful or fun to drive, compared to a quicker lower RPM boost response. A smaller A/R turbine housing will shift the maximum area under the torque curve to the lower half of the RPM range, and that is the part of the rev range that is practically always most useful on the street. The top end power will be reduced, but the increased lower RPM boost response and torque will transform your A4 to a snappy fun to drive street setup. With a fatter lower end torque curve, I bet you will forget about any lost top end power.

[redline380]

I think you should try a smaller A/R turbine housing to address the lag in the spool up of your turbo. Being a street car, top end power is not as useful or fun to drive, compared to a quicker lower RPM boost response. A smaller A/R turbine housing will shift the maximum area under the torque curve to the lower half of the RPM range, and that is the part of the rev range that is practically always most useful on the street. The top end power will be reduced, but the increased lower RPM boost response and torque will transform your A4 to a snappy fun to drive street setup. With a fatter lower end torque curve, I bet you will forget about any lost top end power.

I am very aware. However, considering I have a DD stock B5, as well as my recently purchased B5 S4, I don't really care about the lag that much. That car will be modded more in the future, but at this time I'll deal with the lag. With that said, it would be nice if I could stretch its legs legally. The setup really shines in the 5-7krpm range in high gears.

[diagnosticator]

I am very aware. However, considering I have a DD stock B5, as well as my recently purchased B5 S4, I don't really care about the lag that much. That car will be modded more in the future, but at this time I'll deal with the lag. With that said, it would be nice if I could stretch its legs legally. The setup really shines in the 5-7krpm range in high gears.

Yeah, if you prefer the current top end power for this car, then that is understandable too. BTW, no offense intended. I don't know what you do or don't know about.

[redline380]

Yeah, if you prefer the current top end power for this car, then that is understandable too. BTW, no offense intended. I don't know what you do or don't know about.

No offense taken. If I wanted to do something about it, I would have by now. One of the best car "mods" is having another car. Best of both worlds!

It appears OP wants to go t3 divided, which is a whole other beast. I commend the action, in fact.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

No offense taken. If I wanted to do something about it, I would have by now. One of the best car "mods" is having another car. Best of both worlds!

It appears OP wants to go t3 divided, which is a whole other beast. I commend the action, in fact.

Correct, originally I had a gtx2867r eliminator setup and it spooled up to 22psi by 3800 rpm. after going thru 3 manifolds, I've decided to switch it up to a top mounted tubular manifold with a twin scroll setup. Should be a bit more robust than the eliminator turbine housing.

Also on this setup, I plan on running around 32-35 psi, hence my compression ratio research.

[PreciseD]

The more you know... Haha

Has anyone had good results in a stroker build around 450 at the wheels with 9.5:1 compression? I've read on the supra and gtr forums that plenty of people do 9.5:1 on 700+ hp builds, but then again, those engines are a whole different animal. Just curious. Would be nice to have a quicker peppy spool.

While having IE build me a race block I decided to go with 9.0:1 as they build theirs with 8.5:1. I don't think 9.5:1 would be a good idea on high boost applications unless you plan to girdle the block and use high quality rods/pistons.

[redline380]

While having IE build me a race block I decided to go with 9.0:1 as they build theirs with 8.5:1. I don't think 9.5:1 would be a good idea on high boost applications unless you plan to girdle the block and use high quality rods/pistons.

I am whole heartedly convinced 9.5:1 with E85 would be the best. EGT's would be fine, feel free to time it to the ceiling, but you would have zero fuel mileage. No proof to back this claim up though. If I were to build another engine, it would be 92.8 stroke, 82mm bore, and 9.5:1 compression with running E85 in mind.

[PreciseD]

Worth the read.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Worth the read.

Started reading, then fiancée kept talking... Will have to sit down and read it on some off time haha.

On a positive note, took the block apart to bare block and everything internally looks good. Journals and bearings are like new. I'm really leaning towards the 8.5:1 ratio though. I don't ever plan on launching my car so I really couldn't care much about completely low end power. If I can hit full boost before 4K rpm, I'll be extremely happy.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

honestly, looking at these, im really tempted... Ill ask my machine shop tomorrow what they think...

CXRacing Rods

and

No Name Rods

[⛄. .]

gtx2867 would probably spool phenomenal with a 95.5 crank, and go with higher compresion pistons, redline360's car looks like a dog in that video

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Some more good news.

The scoring isn't that bad, a 81.5mm bore should get rid of it. I may go with 82mm just to be safe.

No name rods are fine as long as they're the same material and they get balanced.

They have used weisco in many engines with great results. Was told that unless I'm doing like 900+ hp, they're all basically the same.

Very knowledgeable machine shop that has done thousands of competitive race engines.