Stock S3 on Track

[ChrisF1]

Hi all.

Experienced track drivers: how did the car fare stock on track? I've seen a few out at HPDE's and they seem to do fine. I have no idea if they are running pads/fluid, other mods. At this point, my only mod is a JB1. I'll probably do fluid and different tires at some point.

If you're an advanced driver, I'm curious how the car holds up when driven hard on track. My guess is the stock brakes won't last a full session. I have the opportunity to take mine out at a track event Friday and just want a gauge of what to expect. Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks

[mroberte]

Haven't tracked yet, but did solo autox event. After i just had installed bilstein b16s, The biggest setback was the tires and brakes.

[KevinM.]

I tracked the car after just over a month of ownership. I took it to willow springs, and the only modification was a set of new tires and rims. Not even slick tires, just stock ones.
The car held up very well, at one point I did about 15 laps without coming in, and I didn't have any major problems. That was about 7 months ago, and I'm still using the stock brakes...
Since then I've gone to racing classes for higher performance cars (Bondurant Racinh School), and I've upgraded the sway bar to the 034 adjustable, added the UBQ and neuspeed power module. I can't wait to go back!
You shouldn't have any issues taking a stock car to a track.

[aaronz]

I can tell you tht on the TTS with better brakes than the s3, that was by far the weakest link. Pads and fluid are a must


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[mroberte]

I tracked the car after just over a month of ownership. I took it to willow springs, and the only modification was a set of new tires and rims. Not even slick tires, just stock ones.
The car held up very well, at one point I did about 15 laps without coming in, and I didn't have any major problems. That was about 7 months ago, and I'm still using the stock brakes...
Since then I've gone to racing classes for higher performance cars (Bondurant Racinh School), and I've upgraded the sway bar to the 034 adjustable, added the UBQ and neuspeed power module. I can't wait to go back!
You shouldn't have any issues taking a stock car to a track.

Any video of your track day? Would love to hear your review of the added parts when you get back on the track!

[KevinM.]

Any video of your track day? Would love to hear your review of the added parts when you get back on the track!

I have some video, but I wasn't out there setting any records. It was my first time on the track, and I improved my lap times by over 10 seconds throughout the day. The car performed very well. I left on traction control, but when I go back I will be turning it off, or at least set it to "sport."
Big Willow is a high average speed track with very light braking, so very little wear was put on the pads, though my tires showed a lot of wear.
I can't wait to get back on the track with these upgrades, and I expect to improve my time by at least 10 seconds.

[mroberte]

I'm heading to laguna seca soon so I've been watching a bunch of track videos. Be my first time on a full track and really excited (my dream track).

I still have stock A3 brakes and looking at those yellow or green brake pads some have used. Looking into bbk maybe next year. Went on the autox track with stock brakes and they were alright but only did 5 rounds and spaced out about 20 mins in between. Normal amount of glazing afterwards.

[aaronz]

AutoX and full lapping sessions at a track are night and day different on brakes. Fluid is an easy and cheap(ish) change, unless you go Castrol SRF then it's an easy and expensive change. I would start there at a minimum if you can, for safety over performance if any thing.

This green/yellow/red pads might help for a few deep braking sessions, but will again give you a floored peddle soon after (ask me how I know :( )

Different car, same platform - video at the track.

Stock pads and fluid on this session.
034 end links, rear sway, dogbone, subframe mounts, 034 intake

https://youtu.be/dQVJSzEGLms


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[ChrisF1]

I can tell you tht on the TTS with better brakes than the s3, that was by far the weakest link. Pads and fluid are a must


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That is what I expect. My E92 even with pads and fluid didn't last 5 laps. I think the S3 will do a little better due to weight and slighly better brakes. I will probably only ever track this car once, maybe twice. I have another car better suited to track duty. ;)

[soulflyer]

I have been tracking my S3 for 6 days in total so far. 2 days last year and 4 days this year.
I changed the brake fluid, added a Race bucket seat (Sparco Evo two)
I am on my second set of PSSs and i used 2 sets of OEM brake pads. And just last Monday I received after 3 months waiting a set of Pagid RS29 pads with the clips (as opposed to the ones they sent me in April without). I will know the difference on June 25th when I am on the track again.
In dry condition the car is fast, but front heavy, go in slow to come fast out... however in the wet it kills... of course with quattro, even if its just the Haldex one.
On a hot day I get brake fading during the last of 6 sessions. Hence the racing pads...
The car is a real gas guzzler on the track, after 3 sessions of 30 min on the circuit de Mont Tremblant I got the reserve light coming on. And dont think you can still drive another hot lap, I got engine stutter accelerating out of a tight turn (found the trouble codes later in the ecu: cylinder misfire).. the computer showed 29.6l per 100km for the whole track day... that is 9.5mpg!!

Planned upgrades for next year:
- Dedicated wheel set for track days: 245-45/17 with an R type of tire such as Proxes R888. Its quite cheaper than 18 or 19 inch... and lighter too
- Rear Sway bar
- Unibrace
- More track days!!

I got a channel with some videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN3...GmeR7yTK_OL9_Q

Have fun and keep it on the black!

[hamz01]

Did track days with the car bone stock and like everyone else said, brakes and tires were the weakest links. I did some track days with intake, JB1 and brake fluid/Yellowstuff pads. First of all, I would not run Map 1 on the track. When I ran Map 1, the car went into limp mode on track but in Map 6 with more conservative settings the car is fine. Second of all, the brakes just cannot handle hard stopping with any more power than stock.

In the off season I added downpipe, intercooler, bike brake kit, and some other stuff. Car is quite fast and the brake kit (380mm) is life changing as I can now absolutely punish them and they never let up.

[ChrisF1]

Thanks for the constructive info! The Pagids are a big step up from any stock pad. Only negative I've found with them is they start to degrade performance wise before they get to the backing plate. Currently testing the Ferodo D1.11's.

On tires, I would HIGHLY recommend looking at the Bridgestone RE71R. The GT4 guys are going nuts over them as an alternative to the Pilot Sport Cup 2's. Same grip, longer life; half the price!

Will report back after Friday. May even try for a flying laptime to see how it does relative to the GT4.

[ChrisF1]

Did track days with the car bone stock and like everyone else said, brakes and tires were the weakest links. I did some track days with intake, JB1 and brake fluid/Yellowstuff pads. First of all, I would not run Map 1 on the track. When I ran Map 1, the car went into limp mode on track but in Map 6 with more conservative settings the car is fine. Second of all, the brakes just cannot handle hard stopping with any more power than stock.

In the off season I added downpipe, intercooler, bike brake kit, and some other stuff. Car is quite fast and the brake kit (380mm) is life changing as I can now absolutely punish them and they never let up.

Good tip on JB1. Did you try mixed high octane to help?

Which big brake kit did you go with?

[hamz01]

Good tip on JB1. Did you try mixed high octane to help?

Which big brake kit did you go with?

No I was running 93 octane.

StopTech 6 piston 380mm kit, slotted, with matching rear rotors from Adam's Rotors. http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...i-2398804.aspx

[mroberte]

Thanks everyone for posting tires, been trying to decide on a set for track but the pss are so expensive.

And good to know about the jb1 too, will set mine to map 6 which is a little more conservative

[jpy1980]

I'm still considering my tuning options. With the jb1, if I don't get the cable, it will be stuck on map 1, correct? What happens if I go to the track? What happens in limp mode? I'll be running 91 octane with an intake.

[drew4392]

So, limp mode in map 1 on track, but fine on the street??

[jpy1980]

Thanks everyone for posting tires, been trying to decide on a set for track but the pss are so expensive.

And good to know about the jb1 too, will set mine to map 6 which is a little more conservative

I thought map 6 was only user defined.

[TCHUN003]

I have been tracking my S3 for 6 days in total so far. 2 days last year and 4 days this year.
I changed the brake fluid, added a Race bucket seat (Sparco Evo two)
I am on my second set of PSSs and i used 2 sets of OEM brake pads. And just last Monday I received after 3 months waiting a set of Pagid RS29 pads with the clips (as opposed to the ones they sent me in April without). I will know the difference on June 25th when I am on the track again.
In dry condition the car is fast, but front heavy, go in slow to come fast out... however in the wet it kills... of course with quattro, even if its just the Haldex one.
On a hot day I get brake fading during the last of 6 sessions. Hence the racing pads...
The car is a real gas guzzler on the track, after 3 sessions of 30 min on the circuit de Mont Tremblant I got the reserve light coming on. And dont think you can still drive another hot lap, I got engine stutter accelerating out of a tight turn (found the trouble codes later in the ecu: cylinder misfire).. the computer showed 29.6l per 100km for the whole track day... that is 9.5mpg!!

Planned upgrades for next year:
- Dedicated wheel set for track days: 245-45/17 with an R type of tire such as Proxes R888. Its quite cheaper than 18 or 19 inch... and lighter too
- Rear Sway bar
- Unibrace
- More track days!!

I got a channel with some videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN3...GmeR7yTK_OL9_Q

Have fun and keep it on the black!

It could have been the design, but I couldn't fit 17" wheels on the s3 bc the brakes were too large

[soulflyer]

It could have been the design, but I couldn't fit 17" wheels on the s3 bc the brakes were too large

Probably design. I used a 17x8 ET 45 Rim for the last two winter seasons without any problems (Replica R133).
And if found this rim FAST FC04 in 17x8 ET 45 which according the Manufacturer is only 16lbs.

[TCHUN003]

Probably design. I used a 17x8 ET 45 Rim for the last two winter seasons without any problems (Replica R133).
And if found this rim FAST FC04 in 17x8 ET 45 which according the Manufacturer is only 16lbs.

16lbs

[ChrisF1]

I'm still considering my tuning options. With the jb1, if I don't get the cable, it will be stuck on map 1, correct? What happens if I go to the track? What happens in limp mode? I'll be running 91 octane with an intake.

Why not just get the cable? Problem solved.

[phillyquattro]

Like Reyoasian said, I'd highly suggest a high temp fluid upgrade. With my last track day at Laguna Seca I got paired with another S3 owner who was bone stock. He started running into braking issues towards the end of the day. This could obviously vary greatly depending on which track you go to. Laguna just happens to be very twisty and very brake intensive.

[DWP]

Interesting thread. I have a LOT of track days under my belt - mostly with a Stage 3+ A4 and now 3 days with the S3 which was fine except for brakes. I used up a set of OEM front pads in 1 day at Buttonwillow and put a 1mm lip on the OEM front rotors. But the OEM fluid showed no discoloration when I bled it and I never got a hint of fade. I put in a set of Ferodo D2500 pads and ran 2 days at Laguna Seca without any problem, and that track is hard on brakes. Rotor lip was hardly any worse, so dunno what to make of that.

All on the PSS tires which are wearing out of course. If I ran my r-comps, I expect brakes would need further improvement. And once I tune it, brakes and suspension are gonna need help.

Bottom line - it is fine in stock form for a rookie at an HPDE track day. Also ok for an experienced driver who can manage his brakes.

[jpy1980]

Interesting thread. I have a LOT of track days under my belt - mostly with a Stage 3+ A4 and now 3 days with the S3 which was fine except for brakes. I used up a set of OEM front pads in 1 day at Buttonwillow and put a 1mm lip on the OEM front rotors. But the OEM fluid showed no discoloration when I bled it and I never got a hint of fade. I put in a set of Ferodo D2500 pads and ran 2 days at Laguna Seca without any problem, and that track is hard on brakes. Rotor lip was hardly any worse, so dunno what to make of that.

All on the PSS tires which are wearing out of course. If I ran my r-comps, I expect brakes would need further improvement. And once I tune it, brakes and suspension are gonna need help.

Bottom line - it is fine in stock form for a rookie at an HPDE track day. Also ok for an experienced driver who can manage his brakes.

Duly noted on the ferodo pads! I did not know they made it for the s3!

[aaronz]

Interesting thread. I have a LOT of track days under my belt - mostly with a Stage 3+ A4 and now 3 days with the S3 which was fine except for brakes. I used up a set of OEM front pads in 1 day at Buttonwillow and put a 1mm lip on the OEM front rotors. But the OEM fluid showed no discoloration when I bled it and I never got a hint of fade. I put in a set of Ferodo D2500 pads and ran 2 days at Laguna Seca without any problem, and that track is hard on brakes. Rotor lip was hardly any worse, so dunno what to make of that.

All on the PSS tires which are wearing out of course. If I ran my r-comps, I expect brakes would need further improvement. And once I tune it, brakes and suspension are gonna need help.

Bottom line - it is fine in stock form for a rookie at an HPDE track day. Also ok for an experienced driver who can manage his brakes.

You're saying you had no fade from the stock pads as well then (you said fluid was fine), but went through a set of OEMs in 1 day? I've never been to buttonwillow but can't imagine you were truly pushing your braking points that deep if you had no fade at all and to go through an entire pad set. I could be wrong but to me that math doesn't add up unless by managing your brakes you were pulling back your braking points or using your tires to scrub a lot of speed off and this putting the wear on the rubber?

Disclaimer: Not trying to say your not a capable driver at all, I just just be missing something or you have a Senna foot.


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[hamz01]

So, limp mode in map 1 on track, but fine on the street??

Correct

[hamz01]

I thought map 6 was only user defined.

Map 6 is indeed user-defined. I am running the following 1.5k rpm: 0psi, 2k: 1, 2.5k: 2, 3k: 3.5, 3.5k-6.5k: 4, 7k: 3.

[jpy1980]

Map 6 is indeed user-defined. I am running the following 1.5k rpm: 0psi, 2k: 1, 2.5k: 2, 3k: 3.5, 3.5k-6.5k: 4, 7k: 3.

Thanks for your feedback! Does your settings for map 6 cause less limp mode?

[hamz01]

Thanks for your feedback! Does your settings for map 6 cause less limp mode?

It has never caused limp mode and has never had any other issues. I played with a different configuration that was less aggressive than Map 1 but more aggressive than my current Map 6, and there was noticeable hesitation at 5.5k rpm under full throttle on track. With my current hardware setup and JB1 settings, I am perfectly happy with the car. It's been completely reliable and I like knowing I have a rocket of a car without running tons of psi over stock.

[jpy1980]

Interesting thread. I have a LOT of track days under my belt - mostly with a Stage 3+ A4 and now 3 days with the S3 which was fine except for brakes. I used up a set of OEM front pads in 1 day at Buttonwillow and put a 1mm lip on the OEM front rotors. But the OEM fluid showed no discoloration when I bled it and I never got a hint of fade. I put in a set of Ferodo D2500 pads and ran 2 days at Laguna Seca without any problem, and that track is hard on brakes. Rotor lip was hardly any worse, so dunno what to make of that.

All on the PSS tires which are wearing out of course. If I ran my r-comps, I expect brakes would need further improvement. And once I tune it, brakes and suspension are gonna need help.

Bottom line - it is fine in stock form for a rookie at an HPDE track day. Also ok for an experienced driver who can manage his brakes.

Do you have a part number for the ds2500 pads? I looked on their website and they didn't make one for the 2016 Audi s3

- - - Updated - - -

It has never caused limp mode and has never had any other issues. I played with a different configuration that was less aggressive than Map 1 but more aggressive than my current Map 6, and there was noticeable hesitation at 5.5k rpm under full throttle on track. With my current hardware setup and JB1 settings, I am perfectly happy with the car. It's been completely reliable and I like knowing I have a rocket of a car without running tons of psi over stock.

Got it!

[mroberte]

Not sure, but are the s3 and a3 pads interchangeable? Want to n upgrade pads b4 I head to track.

[Thumper3]

Like Reyoasian said, I'd highly suggest a high temp fluid upgrade. With my last track day at Laguna Seca I got paired with another S3 owner who was bone stock. He started running into braking issues towards the end of the day. This could obviously vary greatly depending on which track you go to. Laguna just happens to be very twisty and very brake intensive.

Weird. Does Audi use crappier fluid than VW?

I took my GTI out on Laguna Seca on stock brakes that had already been through about a half dozen track days at Sonoma and I think one day at Thunderhill IIRC and had no brake issues. Well, no brake issues ON TRACK....after the second session I pulled into my spot in the paddock, got out and smelled burning brakes...looked down and honest to go smoke was coming off my fronts. LOL Went away by the time I had the extinguisher out and never repeated that day, but was hilarious after the fact.

Upgraded the brakes (pads, rotors, lines, fluid) the next month and the pads were destroyed when I pulled them off.

But, no fade and no issues.


Still, I agree a fluid swap is recommended but for a new driver just wanting to track their stock car, I wouldn't say avoid the track until you do. In fact you will learn more in your stock car than you would in a heavily modified and track prepped one.

[soulflyer]

Duly noted on the ferodo pads! I did not know they made it for the s3!

Me too, I was not aware and look at this, I found them on their website
http://ecat.ferodoracing.com/car-rac...e-pads/FCP4425
And looking at the pictures it shows me that they got the clips right (unlike Pagid...)
There are not many options for the S3, I was looking all winter to get pads other than OEM or EBC (I heard no good things but I am open hear otherwise). I contacted Hawk and they flat out denied producing pads for our car. Even when I mentioned that the Golf R has the same brakes..
I have the Pagids now installed and bedded and used for two days of daily driving and the difference is really noticeable. I have almost no squealing but they are 'klonking' in the carriers. Despite having finally clips they are still 1-2mm 'short'. The OEM have a little piece of metal to bridge that gap and I see on the drawing that the Ferodos have it too. There is a whole thread dedicated to this problem...
I am on the track in 10 days... lets see what kind of difference it really makes.

[jpy1980]

Me too, I was not aware and look at this, I found them on their website
http://ecat.ferodoracing.com/car-rac...e-pads/FCP4425
And looking at the pictures it shows me that they got the clips right (unlike Pagid...)
There are not many options for the S3, I was looking all winter to get pads other than OEM or EBC (I heard no good things but I am open hear otherwise). I contacted Hawk and they flat out denied producing pads for our car. Even when I mentioned that the Golf R has the same brakes..
I have the Pagids now installed and bedded and used for two days of daily driving and the difference is really noticeable. I have almost no squealing but they are 'klonking' in the carriers. Despite having finally clips they are still 1-2mm 'short'. The OEM have a little piece of metal to bridge that gap and I see on the drawing that the Ferodos have it too. There is a whole thread dedicated to this problem...
I am on the track in 10 days... lets see what kind of difference it really makes.

It says not available though

[DWP]

Try bestbrakes.com

[jpy1980]

Try bestbrakes.com

nope. nothing on that website as well. are you sure you got the correct ds2500 pads? Well i mean if you used it, it should be correct. you don't have a part number?

[phillyquattro]

Weird. Does Audi use crappier fluid than VW?

I took my GTI out on Laguna Seca on stock brakes that had already been through about a half dozen track days at Sonoma and I think one day at Thunderhill IIRC and had no brake issues. Well, no brake issues ON TRACK....after the second session I pulled into my spot in the paddock, got out and smelled burning brakes...looked down and honest to go smoke was coming off my fronts. LOL Went away by the time I had the extinguisher out and never repeated that day, but was hilarious after the fact.

Upgraded the brakes (pads, rotors, lines, fluid) the next month and the pads were destroyed when I pulled them off.

But, no fade and no issues.

Still, I agree a fluid swap is recommended but for a new driver just wanting to track their stock car, I wouldn't say avoid the track until you do. In fact you will learn more in your stock car than you would in a heavily modified and track prepped one.

Getting that many track days out of your stock brake pads is impressive to say the least.

My partner at the Laguna Event ran into the same exact experience you described his last two times out for the day. Didn't require an extinguisher, just a 5 min or so drive around the staging area at low speed to let the brakes cool down some. Not sure if he was experiencing fade at all or not on the track but I'm pretty sure had he gone another lap or two either of those sessions he surely would have. He was also extremely aggressive (especially considering it was his first time ever). Dude caught two black flags, one each on his last two sessions. One for passing when not having gotten the point by and one for leaving the track a bit on T8 (whoops!).

Let's just say it was kind of a relief when he got pulled off the track and I was temporarily on my own. It was nice to be able to just focus on perfecting the line without having to worry about his slightly erratic driving.

[ChrisF1]

Just got back from a very long day at Thunderhill. I attended a private track day and we did the 5 mile course with cyclone and West bypass. It was an open day and I mostly drove my GT4. My wife brought the S3 up and I took it out for a few laps. I forgot to knock the JB1 down to map 6 so I took it a little easy on the car. Other than the JB1, the car is fully bone stock.

Using very early braking zones to help keep the brake temp down, the car was way beyond expectations. This little car moves! It did understeer a little at times but was easy to rotate with a little lift. The power, turn in, overall handling with the mag ride shocks was awesome. I came in giddy that this little car was just so much fun to drive on track. I handed her off to another friend and his report was the same. He did throw a CEL as he wasn't holding back as much as I was. I pulled and cleared the code and she was back to normal. Another friend who also owns an S3 took her out as well and also came back smiling. For context, driver #1 was driving a C7 Z06; driver #2 was driving his 991 GT3 RS.

This car punches way above it's weight. For those who are only able to own one car and wanted something awesome on track too, I'd think all it needs is a big brake kit, tune and some RE71R's and it could embarrass a lot of cars.

[will13k7]

^ nice review Chris, thanks for sharing!