2002 6 Speed Swap help

[swededA4]

Ok so I also have a 2002 that went from a 5 speed to a 6 speed transmission. Followed this thread and got the speedo working. Guessed and was able to get the reverse lights working. So now to the question problem. How do I get the cruise control to work in 6th gear? Also how do I get the speedometer to keep working while in 6th gear? Which was really fun to find out while going on a road trip. Works fine in first through fifth. It works for a little bit while in 6th. Then it realizes it's not supposed to and drops to 0 mph. So awesome by the way. Cruising down the highway at 80 mph and then boom your going 0. How have you guys resolved this?

[B6A4Dave]

Do you know if the Image on the ECU needs to be flashed to a 6MT? See if Motoza can copy your file to a 6MT ROM to tell the car it has another gear maybe? I'd assume the ECU's are all the same for the manual just with different settings... VCDS recoding maybe?

[MikTip]

Sounds like the instrument cluster need coding for the 6spd....

[16vCorey]

Do you know if the Image on the ECU needs to be flashed to a 6MT? See if Motoza can copy your file to a 6MT ROM to tell the car it has another gear maybe? I'd assume the ECU's are all the same for the manual just with different settings... VCDS recoding maybe?

The '02 ECU is different from all the rest. If there is a difference in coding, I'm sure it can be done on an '03 (since it's the same ECU as the '04-'05), but I'm not so sure it could be done on an '02.

BTW, I'm planning on doing a 6 speed swap in my '02 in a few weeks, so this is definitely relevant to my interests.

[16vCorey]

On second thought, the '02 3.0L had a 6 speed available, so there's a good chance that if it is a coding issue the '02 ECU could handle it.

[Airflite40]

I've tried changing coding on two different 02 ecus to 6 speed and it doesn't work.

[MoparFreak69]

The only option you have is to get an '03 or '04 ECU (ends in either 518 AF OR 518 AK) to replace your 518 F ECU in your car. The cluster doesn't do the gear calculations, that is handled by the ECU.

[19jdog]

How in the hell does the ecu know what gear your in? When I did the tip to 6 speed conversion I didn't have to recode the ecu. Only thing electrical hooked up to the transmission is the reverse lights. I just removed the tcu and was good to go. PRESS CLUTCH TO START... actually fixed it self.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[MoparFreak69]

How in the hell does the ecu know what gear your in?

Engine RPM vs wheel speed. Easy. If you're doing 7K RPMs at only 25MPH what gear do you figure you're in? Gotta be first.

[16vCorey]

The only option you have is to get an '03 or '04 ECU (ends in either 518 AF OR 518 AK) to replace your 518 F ECU in your car. The cluster doesn't do the gear calculations, that is handled by the ECU.

I thought there were distinct differences in the '02 ECU that makes it not interchangeable with the '03-up ECU. I know the cluster is also '02 only, so I'm guessing that at the very least they'd have to both be changed. Does anyone have any experience swapping an '03 ECU into an '02?

[diagnosticator]

I thought there were distinct differences in the '02 ECU that makes it not interchangeable with the '03-up ECU. I know the cluster is also '02 only, so I'm guessing that at the very least they'd have to both be changed. Does anyone have any experience swapping an '03 ECU into an '02?

I have not done it but I am very familiar with the wiring diagrams and the '02 uses the same wiring as the '03/'04. The instrument cluster is wired the same as well. The important communications with the ECU and the IC, is via the powertrain CAN buss, so there is no incompatibility that I know of. The difference between the '02 and '03 ECUs is all internal to the '02 ECU.

[Kevin C]

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning

Gear detection

The ecu computes the gear (gangi) from the quotient N/V out of nmot_w and vfzg_w. To find the current gear, the ecu uses for each possible gear a min and a max quotient to compare the actual N/v against.
You have to update these quotients in order to map with the present gearbox/wheels. The thresholds are named NVQUOT1O (upper quotient for 1st gear), NVQUOT1U (lower quotient for 1st gear) up to NVQUOT6O, NVQUOT6U for 6th gear.
NVQUOT1O (0x013BC2)
NVQUOT1U (0x013BC4)
NVQUOT2O (0x013BC6)
NVQUOT2U (0x013BC8)
NVQUOT3O (0x013BCA)
NVQUOT3U (0x013BCC)
NVQUOT4O (0x013BCE)
NVQUOT4U (0x013BD0)
NVQUOT5O (0x013BD2)
NVQUOT5U (0x013BD4)
NVQUOT6O (0x013BD6)
NVQUOT6U (0x013BD8)

It seems like the ECU is looking for a certain engine RPM VS speed... If its too far off - no cruise. Other cars with the M7.5 have a similar problem if a taller fifth gear is installed.

http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/...37a7c8e#p95264

You will have to register to get to the site.

The ecu computes the gear (gangi) from the quotient N/V out of nmot_w and vfzg_w. To find the current gear, the ecu uses for each possible gear a min and a max quotient to compare the actual N/v against.
You have to update these quotients in order to map with the present gearbox/wheels. The thresholds are named NVQUOT1O (upper quotient for 1st gear), NVQUOT1U (lower quotient for 1st gear) up to NVQUOT6O, NVQUOT6U for 6th gear.

[Kevin C]

I have not recoded my 2003 1.8T to know it has a six speed. For sure, my cruise control does not work in sixth. If I have time, I will give it a try after work today.

[Airflite40]

This. All of it.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning



It seems like the ECU is looking for a certain engine RPM VS speed... If its too far off - no cruise. Other cars with the M7.5 have a similar problem if a taller fifth gear is installed.

http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/...37a7c8e#p95264

You will have to register to get to the site.

[16vCorey]

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning



It seems like the ECU is looking for a certain engine RPM VS speed... If its too far off - no cruise. Other cars with the M7.5 have a similar problem if a taller fifth gear is installed.

http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/...37a7c8e#p95264

You will have to register to get to the site.

Can someone translate that into English? I have Vag-Com, but I'm not super familiar with coding.

[Airflite40]

What Kevin is saying is this cannot be done with VCDS/Vag-com. You will need a program to modify the ECU file, like Nefmoto can.

Basically there are values stored in the ECU that say, if vehicle speed is X and rpm is Y, then you are in gear Z. For example, if you are at 10 mph and 2500 rpm, the ECU checks the table and looks at the lower and upper limits given to figure out what gear you are in.

I never made it this far as I couldn't get Nefmoto to read my ECU file without removing the ECU and rigging a bench setup to read/write. I got a spare ECU and was putting together a bench setup but sold the car before I could see this through.

You will have to read the ECU, find the quotients he listed, and update 5th and 6th to allow for cruise. What wasn't clear to me is if there actually will be a quotient in the ECU file for 6th gear since that transmission was never offered. I don't know if the 1.8T and 3.0 (which had a 01E 6 speed) use the same ECU just different coding, or have different ECU's all together.
Most likely the quotient will be there, but the values will be 0. If that is the case, just pop in a range (upper and lower) and see what happens.

[diagnosticator]

None of that is required to recode a 518 AK ECU to 6 speed.

[Airflite40]

2002 ECU is 518 F. I personally tried to recode 2 different ecus with 2 different VCDS cables and neither one would take the coding

[Wet0willy01]

I have a spare pair of ecus Ben. I was going to loan one out to Matt but you can fight over it. My Uni630 ecu came back and 6th gear CC never worked. I'm one of the many who got duped there.

[Kevin C]

What six speed did you use?

[diagnosticator]

2002 ECU is 518 F. I personally tried to recode 2 different ecus with 2 different VCDS cables and neither one would take the coding

Right. The '02 ECU won't accept coding for a 6 speed because there was no 6 speed trans available from the factory in '02. An '04 518 AK ECU will recode to 6 speed for sure.

[MoparFreak69]

I thought there were distinct differences in the '02 ECU that makes it not interchangeable with the '03-up ECU. I know the cluster is also '02 only, so I'm guessing that at the very least they'd have to both be changed. Does anyone have any experience swapping an '03 ECU into an '02?

All ME7.5 ECUs are pinned the same. I can run my car off the ECU from my GTI however the fan is controlled differently in the GTI so the coding to control the B6 fans is not present. The only real difference is processor speed. Newer versions run a faster clock speed to handle calculations faster and more efficient for better emissions.

The 3.0 uses a different version of Motronic that has its own completely different set of coding and maps. That's why you can't code a 1.8t to a 6 speed in '02 because no such coding value exists for that ECU software version.

[diagnosticator]

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning



It seems like the ECU is looking for a certain engine RPM VS speed... If its too far off - no cruise. Other cars with the M7.5 have a similar problem if a taller fifth gear is installed.

http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/...37a7c8e#p95264

You will have to register to get to the site.

For ECUs capable of being coded for a 6 speed trans, the software code shown above as applicable for the 6 speed trans is already programed into the ECU, and enabled when the ECU is coded for 6 speed.

[refueler]

Would a 2004 1.8 6 spd manual ecu work in the 2002 or is that just feasible.

[diagnosticator]

Would a 2004 1.8 6 spd manual ecu work in the 2002 or is that just feasible.

Yes, provided the immo is adapted to the IC.

[Kevin C]

I went from automatic to 6spd. Cruise control works in 6th.
Was: 01V 5HP19FLA. ID-code: GBJ from '04 3L.
Now: 02X 6spd quattro from '04 3L.
"Deleted" the TCU. AKA, underneath the ECU there is a "second" one. Simply unplugged and removed it.
During swap, recoded ABS, cluster, and ECU to 6spd.
However, all 3.0L model years were available with 6spd manual too. '02-'03 was 01E-type, a type which Audi used in many cars you all know including 2.7T's but with part variances I guess.
'04-'05 was 02X-type.

Not sure of the ECU PN.

I was thinking that its very possible that the 2002 ECU had the entry table for all six gears. The variable is what ratio sixth gear you have and does it match up to what the ECU expects. That's why I was curious what code transmissions people have been using.

[Kevin C]

Went TO GJV.
GJV is 3L 02X.
GJW is 1.8T 02X.
Practically the same, aside from a different FD and 4/5/6 ratio.
I may be wrong though.

'04-'05 like I said. If it was PRE '04, then 1.8T got an 01A-type 5spd, but 3.0L got 01E-type.
Keyword is "Type". Type, is not the same as code. As you may know.
Type: 0A3, 01X, 02X, 01E, 01A, 01V, etc.
Codes: GJV, GJW, etc.

I'm lost here. I don't think my ECU would care if I switched my GJV for a GJW, whose 6th is probably lower. Or an 0A3 or 01E, such as an FYF-code from an early 3L.
I guess I need to re-read the thread. Admittedly, I'm a noob to this stuff.

I'm going to claim any posteriori knowledge (AKA, I'm also figuring it out as I go). For the 2004 ECU to work in sixth, the final drive probably needs to match the one used in 2004 (0.685x 4.11= 2.815 02X GJW trans). If you have an 02X GVE (2.0T, B7) the final is 2.56, the ratio (gangi) might be too far off for OD to work. I didn't find anyone that has tested this... Basicly be aware there are a couple of factors.

[diagnosticator]

IF the ECU accepts coding for a 6 speed trans, I don't think it matters what the specific gear ratios are. The trans soft coding values implemented do not differentiate between trans ID codes.

[diagnosticator]

I was thinking that its very possible that the 2002 ECU had the entry table for all six gears. The variable is what ratio sixth gear you have and does it match up to what the ECU expects. That's why I was curious what code transmissions people have been using.

I don't think the '02 ECU has the maps for a 6 speed since a six speed was not available with a 1.8T in '02. That is why the '02 1.8T ECU won't accept coding for a 6 speed trans.

See linked post #24:http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11182161

[Kevin C]

I don't think the '02 ECU has the maps for a 6 speed since a six speed was not available with a 1.8T in '02. That is why the '02 1.8T ECU won't accept coding for a 6 speed trans.

See linked post #24:http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11182161

That's the part I'm not sure about. The other thing, is even if there is only five mapping slots for the gear ratio, what would stop someone from skipping first and recoding the rest to work with the top five gears? I never use cruise in first!

Also, my understanding is there was a 1.8t six speed in 2002, but it was not imported to the US. http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php Does that help us ? No clue.. At least yet.

[swededA4]

I swapped the transmission, drive shaft and rear diff from a early model 04 1.8t quattro. Dave (motoza) has been trying to adjust the parameters of 5th gear. So while I am in 6th gear it still thinking I am in 5th. With that said and everything that I have read here. It appears my only option is to swap ECU's. I can get the ECU from the audi I got the transmission from. But I would need to put an ecu back in it's place. So I can put the ecu from the 04 in mine but can put my ecu back in it's place?

[diagnosticator]

I swapped the transmission, drive shaft and rear diff from a early model 04 1.8t quattro. Dave (motoza) has been trying to adjust the parameters of 5th gear. So while I am in 6th gear it still thinking I am in 5th. With that said and everything that I have read here. It appears my only option is to swap ECU's. I can get the ECU from the audi I got the transmission from. But I would need to put an ecu back in it's place. So I can put the ecu from the 04 in mine but can put my ecu back in it's place?

You can do that, the donor A4 is not being driven, right? The immo would need to be adapted for both ECU after the swap, so that both engines will run, but I am not sure if the '04 A4 would accept the '02 ECU.

If the '04 A4 donor car does not need to run, then it doesn't matter if the '02 ECU works in the '04 or not.

You might want to consider getting the instruments from the '04 also and getting it virginized, then you can just adapt the keys to the '04 IC since the IC and ECU immo IDs should already match.

[swededA4]

You can do that, the donor A4 is not being driven, right? The immo would need to be adapted for both ECU after the swap, so that both engines will run, but I am not sure if the '04 A4 would accept the '02 ECU.

Not currently. But he will want to drive it again. Eventually. Which is why I ask if my 02 ECU will go into it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

Not currently. But he will want to drive it again. Eventually. Which is why I ask if my 02 ECU will go into it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I don't know of any reason the '02 ECU won't work in the '04 A4, especially if the instruments are swapped also.

It would probably be a lot easier to just buy another '04 ECU.

[swededA4]

Isn't there something about the fan control module that is different?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[diagnosticator]

That's the part I'm not sure about. The other thing, is even if there is only five mapping slots for the gear ratio, what would stop someone from skipping first and recoding the rest to work with the top five gears? I never use cruise in first!

Also, my understanding is there was a 1.8t six speed in 2002, but it was not imported to the US. http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php Does that help us ? No clue.. At least yet.

Most of the Euro of ROW ECUs have specific part number suffixes. Frequently the NA specific part number suffixes won't accept recoding to Euro or ROW.

[diagnosticator]

Isn't there something about the fan control module that is different?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Not that I know of. All '02>'05 AMB fan control modules receive a PWM control signal from the ECU, and are wired the same.

[Kevin C]

FYI, my 2003 would not accept coding for a six speed. I tried Also, from what I have read, the basic ECU hardware is compatible over several different models and BIN files can be used to program them into whatever part number you would like.

[MoparFreak69]

from what I have read, the basic ECU hardware is compatible over several different models and BIN files can be used to program them into whatever part number you would like.

False. The 02's have a different processor speed and won't accept a BIN from any other version. The 03's and up can be cross flashed, but require EEPROM BINs that match the main BIN you are flashing to the ECU or fits will be thrown by the car, ask me how I know.

[Kevin C]

False. The 02's have a different processor speed and won't accept a BIN from any other version. The 03's and up can be cross flashed, but require EEPROM BINs that match the main BIN you are flashing to the ECU or fits will be thrown by the car, ask me how I know.

True... That said, I didn't mention any specific years.