Need to replace UPPER and LOWER control arms on a 09 A5

[561audia4]

Any recommendations on Upper and Lower control arms for the A5??...I am lowered with H&R sport springs with 20inch Vossen CV3's

Ive always had premature wear issues with my tires and I feel i constantly am getting my car aligned, so hopefully by replacing these parts it can help with the tire wear

Thanks in advance!!

[JamesRS5]

Which area of the tire is wearing? If it's the inner edge it may be worth fitting SPC control arms to dial out the camber you introduced by lowering.

[NaiveTurtle]

I bought all of my lower control arms from FCP Euro. I don't think they have a specific set yet for the B8 A5/S5 platform, but they offer both Meyle and OEM which are good (I believe Meyle is the OEM supplier). My upper control arms are 034 Motorsports adjustable upper control arms, and they are pretty good short from the typical spherical joint noises. I splurged for the adjustable uppers so I could make sure everything went back to OEM specs while being lowered since I had just dropped a lot of money on a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

If you are having wear it is likely on the inner shoulder of the tire, which is caused by too much toe in. Everyone says that this issue comes from camber but that is wrong, it is 100% toe related. If you were having wear from too much camber it would be noticeable from the contact patch with wear bias towards the inside of the tire. Make sure when you get alignments they are setting your toe closer to ZERO. At exactly zero toe you will have better handling but the car will tend to tramline a little bit on the highway or very worn in roads. A little negative toe-in will reduce the tramlining but too much and you get shoulder wear. Also make sure they set the toe on each side close to zero not just the overall toe. A lot of cheap shops will adjust the total toe to meet factory specs which means you could have one tire with zero toe and another with say a bunch of negative toe which will cause extreme wear.

[JamesRS5]

Please don't quote incorrect information!

Your toe can be absolutely spot on but your tires will wear the inner edge if you're running too much camber, it's not rocket science!

[NaiveTurtle]

You should take a look at the image above, it perfectly describes each scenario (of which I have personally experienced both camber and toe issue on cars in the past). I can see how people can mistake toe wear for camber wear, but in almost every case of wearing the inner shoulder of tires (usually down to the cords) on a lowered Audi/VW is from excessive toe wear. It is easy to picture because you are basically dragging the inner shoulder of the tire along the ground instead of smoothly rolling down the road.

Also, your overall toe could be spot on and you can still get toe wear on one side. This is because overall toe is the net toe between the two tires, that is why someone who gets an alignment should make sure that the shop aligns each individual toe to proper specs not just net toe.

[JamesRS5]

I can also pull a picture off the internet, tire shops seem to have differing opinions on what causes wear.




When you lower an A5, due to the arm configuration you are adding around -1 to -2 degrees of negative camber to the OE settings, your toe is not altered by lowering, it will remain at manufacturer settings. You can continually adjust the toe but the tire will still wear on the inner edge until the camber is corrected, the only way to correct the camber is with an adjustable a-arm. Pull it back to around -1.6' (the maximum still inside manufacturer allowable tolerance).

[FCPEuro]

561audia4 if you are getting alignments that frequently and having tire wear issues you can likely spot trends based on what needs the most adjustment every time you come in. Many shops often provide you with presetting images (printout of where you were camber/toe/caster before coming in and after they performed the alignment), if you are having the same problem over and over then you at least know where to start. Also since you have aftermarket wheels make sure you have them mounted and balanced properly and are ensuring you have the proper air pressure as well just to rule out any possibility of that being an issue.

On any lowered multi link like yours I would recommend going with an adjustable upper control arm set, and either the 034 Motorsports set or the SPC set would do you just fine for the amount of drop your springs are giving you.

Also, though Meyle is not OEM in this case they do offer a HD version of the lower control arms for this model, and I would recommend those as the bushings and joints are far tougher then factory and provide the longest life and rigidity, and should have no trouble dealing with the new geometry and larger wheels. When you decide to replace the lower control arms and whichever route you take, be careful as there is a production date split that year for the front lower rear position control arms where the inner bushing diameter changed (production date ranges up to 11/02/2009 use part numbers 8K0407694N and 8K0407693N 65MM Bushings & production date ranges from 11/03/2009 use part numbers 8K0407694S and 8K0407693S 75MM Bushings).

Any recommendations on Upper and Lower control arms for the A5??...I am lowered with H&R sport springs with 20inch Vossen CV3's

Ive always had premature wear issues with my tires and I feel i constantly am getting my car aligned, so hopefully by replacing these parts it can help with the tire wear

Thanks in advance!!

[TTRStud]

NaiveTurtle is correct. Though excessive negative camber can lead to premature inner edge wear, toe in/out has a greater effect on it - contrary to popular believe. Imagine riding a tire on its inner edge, and at the same time having such tire pointing inwards or outwards constantly. This would create excessive friction on that inner edge causing major premature wear. That said, make sure camber and tow are properly set. Caster is not something that's adjustable on many cars these days.

[561audia4]

I would like to get the Meyle HD's but have heard mixed reviews on them. Ive heard that the quality does not match up to MOOG or Lemforder. I am literally in the process of buying them from FCP and I have the Lemforder 8K0407152D Lemforder 8K0407151D Moog 8K0407694N Moog 8K0407693N in the basket....its roughly the same price as the Meyle HD complete kit... Id prefer to keep it all the same brand, but am worried about the quality....any input? Thanks in advance!

I also checked my manufacture date on my car and it says 10/08 so I would need the 8K0407694N 8K0407693N ...thanks for the tip guys!!!

[TTRStud]

I would like to get the Meyle HD's but have heard mixed reviews on them. Ive heard that the quality does not match up to MOOG or Lemforder. I am literally in the process of buying them from FCP and I have the Lemforder 8K0407152D Lemforder 8K0407151D Moog 8K0407694N Moog 8K0407693N in the basket....its roughly the same price as the Meyle HD complete kit... Id prefer to keep it all the same brand, but am worried about the quality....any input? Thanks in advance!

I also checked my manufacture date on my car and it says 10/08 so I would need the 8K0407694N 8K0407693N ...thanks for the tip guys!!!

Lower curved Meyle arms On My S5 with 0 issues. Quality seemed on par with OEM when I compared them.

[Bordom]

I bought all of my lower control arms from FCP Euro. I don't think they have a specific set yet for the B8 A5/S5 platform, but they offer both Meyle and OEM which are good (I believe Meyle is the OEM supplier). My upper control arms are 034 Motorsports adjustable upper control arms, and they are pretty good short from the typical spherical joint noises. I splurged for the adjustable uppers so I could make sure everything went back to OEM specs while being lowered since I had just dropped a lot of money on a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

If you are having wear it is likely on the inner shoulder of the tire, which is caused by too much toe in. Everyone says that this issue comes from camber but that is wrong, it is 100% toe related. If you were having wear from too much camber it would be noticeable from the contact patch with wear bias towards the inside of the tire. Make sure when you get alignments they are setting your toe closer to ZERO. At exactly zero toe you will have better handling but the car will tend to tramline a little bit on the highway or very worn in roads. A little negative toe-in will reduce the tramlining but too much and you get shoulder wear. Also make sure they set the toe on each side close to zero not just the overall toe. A lot of cheap shops will adjust the total toe to meet factory specs which means you could have one tire with zero toe and another with say a bunch of negative toe which will cause extreme wear.

OEM arms are Lemfoerder. Meyle is not an OEM supplier.

Inner tire wear is caused by excessive toe out. Excessive toe in will cause outer tire wear

When you lower an A5, due to the arm configuration you are adding around -1 to -2 degrees of negative camber to the OE settings, your toe is not altered by lowering, it will remain at manufacturer settings.

This is not true. When you lower any car, you will invariably add camber, that part is true. However, when you lower a car without going for an alignment, the tires will naturally toe out. This will lead to you having excessive inner tire wear caused by an excessive toe out condition.

I dropped my B5 and didn't align the rear end when I put my coilovers in. I had severe inner tire wear within 5k km because it was toed out too much

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[561audia4]

Lower curved Meyle arms On My S5 with 0 issues. Quality seemed on par with OEM when I compared them.

I heard that there was zero issues with the Meyle arms for the S5, but there have been some issues with the A5...which really doesn't make sense because I believe its the same arm? correct me if im wrong? Anyone with an A5 with experience with the Meyle arms?

[TTRStud]

I heard that there was zero issues with the Meyle arms for the S5, but there have been some issues with the A5...which really doesn't make sense because I believe its the same arm? correct me if im wrong? Anyone with an A5 with experience with the Meyle arms?

There is another recent thread of an a5 owner who apparently had a terrible experience with the Meyle curved arms. He described an extreme amount of shaking which I am unable to explain. Yes, Meyle creates arms with solid bushings instead of hydraulic, which should translate to MAYBE a little more feel on the steering wheel (if any at all), but definitely not the extreme shaking that he describes. They are affordable enough to where you could possibly return them in case they don't work out for you (maybe you'll want to be the person to either validate or dismiss other claims), but I understand that the labor itself is not as quick as to make most people want to gamble with the choices.

[CAArcher]

When you decide to replace the lower control arms and whichever route you take, be careful as there is a production date split that year for the front lower rear position control arms where the inner bushing diameter changed (production date ranges up to 11/02/2009 use part numbers 8K0407694N and 8K0407693N 65MM Bushings & production date ranges from 11/03/2009 use part numbers 8K0407694S and 8K0407693S 75MM Bushings).

This is not entirely correct. The change to the 75MM bushing was Audi's response to the vibrations in the steering wheel that early cars experienced. The arms with the 65MM bushings can (and should) be replaced with the 75MM units. When I did the arms on my 2009 S5 (built Aug 2008) I used the Meyle HD arms with 75MM bushings, part numbers 8K0407694R and 8K0407693R.

The 8K0407694S and 8K0407693S also have 75MM bushings but the arm to subframe bolt size was increased to 14MM. As stated these need to be used if the production date as after 11/03/2009.

-Michael

[JamesRS5]

This is not true. When you lower any car, you will invariably add camber, that part is true. However, when you lower a car without going for an alignment, the tires will naturally toe out. This will lead to you having excessive inner tire wear caused by an excessive toe out condition.

The A5 a-arm configuration doesn't tend to suffer from bump steer, Audis chassis designers probably addressed that on day one so toe isn't really affected by compression of the struts. Adding lowering springs is the same as compressing the struts, it's the same effect, if it were the case that strut compression adjusted toe, then the cars handling would feel terrible with the toe angle adjusting over every bump and dip in the road.
Fitting camber bolts to the hub and adjusting camber from that fulcrum point will alter toe as you are effectively adjusting the a-arm length, as obviously will fitting adjustable a-arms so toe must be corrected after adjusting the camber angles.

I will try and scan in my alignment after installing KW HAS, the toe angle remained completely unchanged, camber decreased to -2.04' (target should be around -1.3') and left unchecked, this will cause tire wear but each to their own, you make your own decisions but keep an eye on those tires.

[561audia4]

This is not entirely correct. The change to the 75MM bushing was Audi's response to the vibrations in the steering wheel that early cars experienced. The arms with the 65MM bushings can (and should) be replaced with the 75MM units. When I did the arms on my 2009 S5 (built Aug 2008) I used the Meyle HD arms with 75MM bushings, part numbers 8K0407694R and 8K0407693R.

The 8K0407694S and 8K0407693S also have 75MM bushings but the arm to subframe bolt size was increased to 14MM. As stated these need to be used if the production date as after 11/03/2009.

-Michael

So being that mine was produced on 10/08...I would need the 8K0407694N 8K0407693N units?

[stefdds]

Thank you for that bit of detail CAArcher, as many of us want to "upgrade" to the aftermarket 75mm Bushing arms! And that detail on the 14mm bolt is also great to know too. Thanks again as I am currently working on this very issue/install. Stefan

[stefdds]

There is another recent thread of an a5 owner who apparently had a terrible experience with the Meyle curved arms. He described an extreme amount of shaking which I am unable to explain. Yes, Meyle creates arms with solid bushings instead of hydraulic, which should translate to MAYBE a little more feel on the steering wheel (if any at all), but definitely not the extreme shaking that he describes. They are affordable enough to where you could possibly return them in case they don't work out for you (maybe you'll want to be the person to either validate or dismiss other claims), but I understand that the labor itself is not as quick as to make most people want to gamble with the choices.

Hi TTRStud, I read that same post and was also confused/surprised: Here is what I think happened. Since this member probably did not do the install himself, he didn't see the actual arms being installed. And as we know (or are learning) these arms are vin/prod. date specific. So, his mechanic probably installed the incorrect arms.

I say this because I have both styles sitting right in front of me: early prod. date and later prod. date. And in this case the focus is on the Ball Join on the end of the arm. You see, this is also different! The early prod. date arms have a narrow "cone" taper where as the later prod. date arms have a larger diameter "cone" (over 2mm difference in diameter). So, if the mechanic placed a early arm on a later prod. date car , they would bolt on and tighen up...... but there would be so much distance between the cone on the joint and the collar in the spindle/knuckle that .....can you say Vibration!!! You would have over a 1mm gap within the collar on the knuckle and although it looks tight ; it isn't.

The other scenario would be a later prod. date on a early prod. date car. Also focusing on the ball joint shaft on the end of the arm. It would most likely enter the collar on the knuckle just over half way and perhaps expose enough of the threads to start the nut. It may even appear to be seated since the rubber boot will cover much of the shaft. But, in reality very little of the tapered ball joint shaft is seated in the collar (maybe 1/3 at best) . This too would .....vibraaaate.

Note the arm ball joint shaft Diameter also!

[Sinrule]

Hey guys,

Hate to be the one to revive an old thread, but this issue applies to my '09 A5 as well...

My car sits at 114k miles right now and I definitely need to get new uppers and lowers for the front. I've been experiencing some alignment issues and had my mechanic look at the suspension, he showed me where the the control arms were starting to lose their rigidity and the bushings were broken.

I'm definitely on a budget and can't really afford to make a lot of mistakes... with that said I found an OEM control arm kit on ECS just north of 2500 bucks for the entire front set. Are there better options? Should I source individual parts from 043 and Lemfoerder? I've read a bit of this thread already and the opinions seem to vary wildly.

Thoughts? I was hoping to stay in the 1k to 1500 dollar range for parts. Doable?