A6 Quattro C5 2001 2.7T General Overhaul Suggestions/Advice

[HalloFiElectron]

Looked for some time for the perfect C5 A6 and finally found one a month or so ago. Having some cosmetic details overhaul but would like now to focus expenses on the engine.



6/9/2016 At Kelly Moss Motorsports Racing Getting front brake upgrades


<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/fCRsj"><a href="//imgur.com/a/fCRsj">A6 @ KM 6/16</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

From our research prior to purchasing the car suggested points for higher mileage A6 C5's includes such things as the potential for valve gasket leaks, the critical timing belt, and others such as water pump,thermostat, breather tubes and gaskets, etc.

I have been looking over reviews from various forums for online vendors and have decided that ECS Tuning has the best reviews and quality components available.

https://www.ecstuning.com/

That being said I am taking our vehicle in for some major overhaul, once and done, with the front bumper having to be removed I figured spared the potential future labour and do as much as possible. My list is what I have concluded so far. Most of the lines systems will be flushed at that time,I just bought new slated semi/ceramic Rotors and Pads from a Audi dealer near me and those are getting installed here shortly. Im still reviewing spark plugs at the moment and considering if I should dink around with the Serpentine while its in?

-CAM Plugs (Unknown Source)

-ECS Part # ES#259658 Valve Gasket Replacement Kit $94.95
Valve Cover Gasket Sets - Left & Right
Camshaft End Cap Seals - Two
Camshaft Seals - Four (Two Front and Two Rear)
Camshaft Chain Tensioner Gaskets - Two
80ml Tube of VW/Audi Specification Sealant


-ECS Part # ES#2777124 Timing Belt Ultimate Kit $224.95
Gates Racing Timing Belt
Idler Roller
Tensioner Roller
Water Pump
Thermostat w/ O-Ring
Accessory Drive Belt

Any other issues while its in having work done in the area or concerns, upgrades, opinions I may consider? Thanks a lot!

[4rings2turbos]

I don't have time at the moment to give a real nice long reply, I'm sure others will help out. But save your monies on the gates belt. They can squeak (baby powder can help alleviate but the best solution is to not have a squeak to begin with) and the belts only usually snap because something else has already gone dreadfully wrong. An OEM conti belt is definitely the best option for a normal daily driver. Also check your cam chain tensioners for wetness and get the cam chain tensioner seal sets. Another very common leak source.

[Kaane]

I second that, do not buy the gates belt it squeaks bad. I would also yank the intake manifold, replace the aux pump and all the water pipe o-rings, they tend to leak and are a pain to replace later. Check the power steering lines, they will probably be leaking from oil being dumped on them. Also check the lines going to the oil cooler, they tend to swell and leak as well.

[HalloFiElectron]

4rings2turbos

I have a friend has used that same belt and reported similar noise complaints, i wonder if it is very common with it? What appealed to me was the strength compared apparently to a standard fabrication. Ill check and verify if those kits contain cam tensioner seals

Danke'

[HalloFiElectron]

Kaane

auxiliary pump, gotcha I will look into that, wasn't aware and any excessive bulging,bleeding or otherwise on hose assemblies.

[Audibot]

I second that, do not buy the gates belt it squeaks bad. I would also yank the intake manifold, replace the aux pump and all the water pipe o-rings, they tend to leak and are a pain to replace later. Check the power steering lines, they will probably be leaking from oil being dumped on them. Also check the lines going to the oil cooler, they tend to swell and leak as well.

Sorry for the thread jack. I'm actually undergoing the same type of process with my allroad. Where would the ps and oil cooler lines be leaking?

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

ECS sucks. EuropaParts ftw.

[Kaane]

Sorry for the thread jack. I'm actually undergoing the same type of process with my allroad. Where would the ps and oil cooler lines be leaking?

They usually leak around the reservoir connection. The oil cooler lines usually around the oil cooler. When valve cover gaskets fail and the oil starts running down the engine it gets deposited on the lines and they start to swell and leak. If the leaks are not bad and fixed early you might be ok. Just verify before you put it back together.

[HalloFiElectron]

So does anyone have any detailed reviews other than it just "sucks" for us new members their are a lot of sources out there. The three major ones appear to be;

EuropaParts @ https://www.europaparts.com/
ECS Tuning @ https://www.ecstuning.com/
Blau Parts @ http://www.baupart.com/

[Audibot]

They usually leak around the reservoir connection. The oil cooler lines usually around the oil cooler. When valve cover gaskets fail and the oil starts running down the engine it gets deposited on the lines and they start to swell and leak. If the leaks are not bad and fixed early you might be ok. Just verify before you put it back together.

Thanks!

So does anyone have any detailed reviews other than it just "sucks" for us new members their are a lot of sources out there. The three major ones appear to be;

EuropaParts @ https://www.europaparts.com/
ECS Tuning @ https://www.ecstuning.com/
Blau Parts @ http://www.baupart.com/

ECS, to me, is like an online reference manual. Well-organized, and easy to find a part to use the part # somewhere else. Sometimes they have good deals, and their kits are usually put together well too. However, their prices are higher than others. But they almost always have an OEM part for whatever.

EuropaParts is a great little place, and while their inventory is limited, they do carry a lot of the essentials. Hugh is great.

Never used Blau Parts.

FCP Euro in Connecticut is a good operation as well. The prices for their suspension kits are hard to beat. And they offer lifetime warranty on practically everything, and are very easy to work with. Probably the best customer service I've had to actually deal with.

Genuine Audi Parts is run by some dealership (IIRC) in California. They have only OE parts that you can look up by either part number or exploring the various parts diagrams. Not the most user-friendly but it's a good site. And their prices are much lower than that of MSRP, so if you must have OE, they're a good search.

Additionally, you may want to still check with your local dealership (online is usually cheaper than phone). I've found a couple times where a part did not have much price difference between, say, ECS and the dealership, and I could have it immediately.

[JTown77]

The Gates belt squeaks on my car all day everyday and it's killing me.

I like ECS but I have ordered from Europa without incident as well.

[HalloFiElectron]

Well thanks everyone for your replies.

I think we'll be going with the two Timing and Gasket kits available from Europaparts.

So far the average quotes I am getting are right around $2000-2500 USD for an approximate 16-20hour labour job here in Southern Wisconsin. Most quotes im getting include parts at that pricing point as well without having to purchase a Kit.

Its pretty expensive in the scheme of things for a higher mileage vehicle, but you dont see a executive C5 A6 every day either, and this one is immaculate!

[4rings2turbos]

Dude, where in southern WI are you? I'm in Chicago burbs and will do the tb/vc job for you for less than that. I've done about a dozen. Literally did one yesterday.

[4rings2turbos]

Plus purchasing your own parts you'll know you're getting good stuff, not cheap stuff that could fail.

I use Europa mostly but also use ECS. In the grand scheme of things ECS isn't SO bad, but sometimes they mess something up. Some people don't have as good of luck with their customer service but I've never had an issue beyond something coming broken.

[Audibot]

Well thanks everyone for your replies.

I think we'll be going with the two Timing and Gasket kits available from Europaparts.

So far the average quotes I am getting are right around $2000-2500 USD for an approximate 16-20hour labour job here in Southern Wisconsin. Most quotes im getting include parts at that pricing point as well without having to purchase a Kit.

Its pretty expensive in the scheme of things for a higher mileage vehicle, but you dont see a executive C5 A6 every day either, and this one is immaculate!

When I initially asked about that job by the shop by me, it was ~$1200 including the parts. So you're definitely getting a high estimate.

Some people don't have as good of luck with their customer service but I've never had an issue beyond something coming broken.

Sometimes their customer service comes off as rude. When the first thing they ask is "Are you going to purchase this item?", it is a bit rude. I get it--they're a huge reference library people use to look up parts and they don't want to waste time. But if that's the first impression I got, I'd never buy anything from them. Hugh has been great, and even in the little chat function on Europa, he'll shoot the breeze for a little bit. Plus he's gone above and beyond for me a few times, both online and in-person.

[4rings2turbos]

When I initially asked about that job by the shop by me, it was ~$1200 including the parts. So you're definitely getting a high estimate.

Is it possible you didn't have a top-end seal at the same time? That's definitely time consuming and adds to the cost.

[HalloFiElectron]

I would assume it did not. Zimbrick Audi, Kelly Moss, Das Mechanic and Accumotor all quoted me max 2500 USD at a shop price.

I figured if its getting done, with the bumper having tto be removed just do it once. So Cam seals and so fourth are a must.

4rings2turbos' can you please PM or contact me.
www.marantzhallo-fi.blogspot.com has all my additional contact information.

[Audibot]

Is it possible you didn't have a top-end seal at the same time? That's definitely time consuming and adds to the cost.

What's defined as "top-end seal"? IIRC, it was to include the valve cover gaskets and the two rear seals too. But they've seen a lot of 2.7s, and the guys sort of like me, so idk, maybe I was given something low.

[4rings2turbos]

Top end reseal would def include the ccts and thats cam removal. Adds a few hours. Also to do VCs it means removing combi valves which are also a hassle and take a little time. Not saying someone HAS to charge for the hassle but I think it's reasonable to do so when book time allots for it.

OP, pm responded. Please see the build thread in my signature for qualifications lol.

[Audibot]

Thanks. I've been going to that shop to >4 years with the B7, and they have been really good to me. Doesn't matter though--I'm planning to get that work done myself. Just wish it would stop raining every weekend I can do it.

[4rings2turbos]

It's invaluable to have a shop that you trust and you know prices you really well.

I feel for you. I didn't have a garage for a period of time and it was terrible.

[Audibot]

It's invaluable to have a shop that you trust and you know prices you really well.

I feel for you. I didn't have a garage for a period of time and it was terrible.

Yeah, working in the dirt sucks

[HalloFiElectron]

Now while we are still on this topic Id like to discuss one last point.

From my understanding and research ( Im one of those rare forums members who does research too ;) ) I have noted several C4/C5/C6 variants with users remarking on a burning oil type smell within the cabin. I as well experience this smell within the cabin on occasion. My what I have gathered this is typically due either the following:

-Breather Hose assembly has a leak/ or active leak
-Cam shaft seals are leaking causing oil to drip onto the exhaust manifold's (more than likely the issue)
-PVC Valve (unlikely but not a bad idea to pre-emptive replacement)


BTW heading into Kelly Moss Racing today for the new performance rotors and pads being installed :)

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

Now while we are still on this topic Id like to discuss one last point.

From my understanding and research ( Im one of those rare forums members who does research too ;) ) I have noted several C4/C5/C6 variants with users remarking on a burning oil type smell within the cabin. I as well experience this smell within the cabin on occasion. My what I have gathered this is typically due either the following:

-Breather Hose assembly has a leak/ or active leak
-Cam shaft seals are leaking causing oil to drip onto the exhaust manifold's (more than likely the issue)
-PVC Valve (unlikely but not a bad idea to pre-emptive replacement)


BTW heading into Kelly Moss Racing today for the new performance rotors and pads being installed :)

Your answer is behind door #2, and the PCV is "part of" the breather hose assembly, I'd plan on replacing this as well.

[HalloFiElectron]

NuGGet_PuFFer

So were on the same tracking thinking cam shat seals eh' Gotcha, I think the Valve Gasket kit includes cam seals, as well as the timing kit. plugs too IIRC

From my research I have found the PVC to clog heavily on the A6 C5 versions, and apparently, correct me if I am wrong but this is due to the funky spider hose/pvc design?
I have found several kits where the spider hose assembly (europa has a modded version?) which includes the PVC. wonder If I can just find the PVC for now just to spruce that up.

[4rings2turbos]

In my experience it's usually the bank 1 valve cover gasket leaking or the bank 1 cct leaking onto the turbo/exhaust manifold like you said. It can also smoke in the engine bay.

[HalloFiElectron]

Okay i think my parts list is assembled short of some new H3 replacements, easy to source and a new breather hose (spider+pvc assembly). Ill be ordering I think from europaparts.com

If their are any other suggestions for me to review or consider for research on installing now would be the time to chime in. I think this is a pretty extensive broad reaching list for major pre-emptive repairs for the C5 A6 2.7T.

Timing kit: $308.45
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Roller
Timing Belt Tensioner
Tensioner Roller
Relay Tensioning lever
Accessory Drive Belt
Water Pump
Thermostat W/ Oring
Camshaft Seal
Crankshaft Seal

Valve Gasket Kit $94.25
Valve Cover Kaset Set X2
Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket X2
Camshaft seal X4
Camshaft Sealing Cap


Automatic Transmission Filter & Pan Gasket Kit $24.95
A/T Filter X1
A/T Filter O-Ring X1
Oil Pan Gasket X1


MISC. Filters
Mann-Filter OEM Fuel Filter $18.95
Mann-Filter Charcoal Cabin Filter $17.95
Mann-Filter OEM Air Filter $9.95

[4rings2turbos]

This is what I did when I did the tb job on my 6-speed allroad- some is pertinent, some isn't. Quoted from my build thread:

I hit 100k and it was time for the 100,000 mile birthday. Here's the list of presents I got her:
Front left and right axles (reman Raxles) new axle bolts
timing belt
tensioner
roller
idler pulley
lever
water pump (metal impeller) and gasket
new aluminum thermostat housing
thermostat
accessory belt
accessory belt tensioner
crank seal and new crank bolt
all cam seals and cam caps
cam chain tensioner gaskets and valley gaskets
valve cover gaskets
coolant temp sender (front, green) and new o-ring and clip
upgraded 710N diverter valve (left and right)
OEM throttle body boot
secondary air injection system delete (kombination valves, pump, vacuum lines and accordion hose) and 034 block-off plates
N80 valve
PCV hose assembly (update R)
new hood strut
new front aero wiper arms (left and right) and blades
upgraded rear aero wiper arm and blade (much to Brian's dismay I recklessly went OEM here and supported a forum vendor
new headlight switch
viscous fan delete
oil change (Rotella T6 5w40)
oil filter change (OEM Mann)
washer change (already switched to magnetic drain plug previously
new coolant expansion tank
new coolant expansion tank cap (Porsche 911)
full pressurized coolant flush
G13 coolant conversion

[Audibot]

Okay i think my parts list is assembled short of some new H3 replacements, easy to source and a new breather hose (spider+pvc assembly). Ill be ordering I think from europaparts.com

If their are any other suggestions for me to review or consider for research on installing now would be the time to chime in. I think this is a pretty extensive broad reaching list for major pre-emptive repairs for the C5 A6 2.7T.

Timing kit: $308.45
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Roller
Timing Belt Tensioner
Tensioner Roller
Relay Tensioning lever
Accessory Drive Belt
Water Pump
Thermostat W/ Oring
Camshaft Seal
Crankshaft Seal

Valve Gasket Kit $94.25
Valve Cover Kaset Set X2
Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket X2
Camshaft seal X4
Camshaft Sealing Cap


Automatic Transmission Filter & Pan Gasket Kit $24.95
A/T Filter X1
A/T Filter O-Ring X1
Oil Pan Gasket X1


MISC. Filters
Mann-Filter OEM Fuel Filter $18.95
Mann-Filter Charcoal Cabin Filter $17.95
Mann-Filter OEM Air Filter $9.95

Looks good. Don't forget coolant (didn't see it in the list). One thing you may want to think about is checking the heat in your HVAC. Since you'll be changing the coolant anyway, you may want to run a flush (something like Liqui-Moly or CLR as some folks do) to make sure your heater core isn't clogged up with gunk, and don't want to potentially foul up the new water pump.

This is what I did when I did the tb job on my 6-speed allroad- some is pertinent, some isn't. Quoted from my build thread:

I hit 100k and it was time for the 100,000 mile birthday. Here's the list of presents I got her:
Front left and right axles (reman Raxles) new axle bolts
timing belt
tensioner
roller
idler pulley
lever
water pump (metal impeller) and gasket
new aluminum thermostat housing
thermostat
accessory belt
accessory belt tensioner
crank seal and new crank bolt
all cam seals and cam caps
cam chain tensioner gaskets and valley gaskets
valve cover gaskets
coolant temp sender (front, green) and new o-ring and clip
upgraded 710N diverter valve (left and right)
OEM throttle body boot
secondary air injection system delete (kombination valves, pump, vacuum lines and accordion hose) and 034 block-off plates
N80 valve
PCV hose assembly (update R)
new hood strut
new front aero wiper arms (left and right) and blades
upgraded rear aero wiper arm and blade (much to Brian's dismay I recklessly went OEM here and supported a forum vendor
new headlight switch
viscous fan delete
oil change (Rotella T6 5w40)
oil filter change (OEM Mann)
washer change (already switched to magnetic drain plug previously
new coolant expansion tank
new coolant expansion tank cap (Porsche 911)
full pressurized coolant flush
G13 coolant conversion

Sheesh! That's a lot! If that's how you celebrate that car's 100k, how do you celebrate your own birthdays?

[blackmage]

ugh i stuck a ton of money into mine too when i did my manual swap. might as well replace as much as you can at once. then you dont have to try diving into the car more than you have to :p

[HalloFiElectron]

Looks good. Don't forget coolant (didn't see it in the list). One thing you may want to think about is checking the heat in your HVAC. Since you'll be changing the coolant anyway, you may want to run a flush (something like Liqui-Moly or CLR as some folks do) to make sure your heater core isn't clogged up with gunk, and don't want to potentially foul up the new water pump.






Sheesh! That's a lot! If that's how you celebrate that car's 100k, how do you celebrate your own birthdays?

I have planned a coolant , transmission and brake line flush with the breakdown as well.

Do all my seals and required orings look in order.

From my understanding when i do the pvc i should do the whole spider hose assembly (that correct?)

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[Audibot]

I have planned a coolant , transmission and brake line flush with the breakdown as well.

Do all my seals and required orings look in order.

From my understanding when i do the pvc i should do the whole spider hose assembly (that correct?)

Must've missed it. Cool beans.

[HalloFiElectron]

Must've missed it. Cool beans.

Nonot at all. Its a good point to highlight. Hopefully this thread will be useful.

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[HalloFiElectron]

Just got back from Kelly Moss Racing with front brake upgrades! slotted stopping power now ;)

Also they came back to me with a very reasonable estimate...at about $1200USD for labour with my supplied parts.
Thanks to 4rings2turbos he gave me some great suggestions, ill be looking to add or maybe straight up delete the ...Fan IIRC and check on the cam tensioners to see if their included in the kits and labour price.

4rings2turbos what fan was that again?

[JTown77]

In my experience it's usually the bank 1 valve cover gasket leaking or the bank 1 cct leaking onto the turbo/exhaust manifold like you said. It can also smoke in the engine bay.

ding, ding, ding!

Also. build your own spider hose and save some money. There is a DIY over in the b5 s4 forum.

[4rings2turbos]

Nice chatting with you. That's a SWEET shop. I want a GT4 clubsport like you don't know.

It was the auxiliary clutch fan.

[Audibot]

I don't think I've seen that many Porsches together ever, even at a Cars and Coffee meet! Great recommendation!

[C H A I N S A W]

G13 coolant conversion

4rings, is this just draining off the G12 and replacing it with G13, or is it more involved than that?

[4rings2turbos]

G12, G12+, G12++ and G13 are completely interchangeable so they can be mixed in every way. When the water pump is replaced it's a really good idea to do a flush though. Stuff builds up and gets nasty in there.