Magnetic Ride Lowering Options - Discuss

[S3BURPS]

So, my S3 came equipped with Magnetic Ride Control.

What exactly happens when you "eliminate" this system? I'm not going to do this anytime soon, but when the dampers do wear out, what all should one expect when that time comes?

I am contemplating coilovers in the future.

Pic for clicks...



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[TCHUN003]

I'm most likely going to install my H&R sports. There are mixed reviews on comfort, but I hear they handle like you're on rails, even without a rear sway.

[S3BURPS]

I'm most likely going to install my H&R sports. There are mixed reviews on comfort, but I hear they handle like you're on rails, even without a rear sway.

I have springs on there now. I want to know what exactly I'll be facing should I go coilovers in the future.

What all gets affected?


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[roadrunner_oz]

I have mag-ride. I had H&R Sports springs, now the ED springs.

I'll start off by saying that I am used to stiff/sporty suspensions as had an M3 & a 1M. Initially the H&R's were hard, but certainly not unbearable in the initial months, but they then became really bad within a few months and shock bottoming out, which would have eventually damaged them. The bounce from the rear over bumps was always bad. The H&R's did handle well though on smooth roads, but car was skittish on anything slightly bumpy.

Moving to the ED springs vastly improved things. Greatly reduced bounce over humps, no bottoming out, significantly better handling than stock and a smidge less than the H&R's. I do have the H&R RSB installed though.

Drop on both ED and H&R's was around 18mm.

I doesn't seem as if the mag-ride shocks can work well with progressive springs. Coilovers are the best option, but I believe many issues with the KW mag-ride delete box.

Sum up out of 10:
Comfort:
OE - 7
H&R - 4
ED - 7
Handling:
OE - 5
H&R - 8 on smooth roads, 6 on rough roads
ED - 7 (with RSB)

[Over9000]

You get codes that won't go away, even with the KW delete kit that has worked on other platforms. Just ask @will13k7.

[S3BURPS]

I have ED springs and they ride amazing.

In the future, I am considering a fully height adjustable/dampening coilover setup.

Aside from codes, what happens with "drive select" functioning. If I understand this correctly, this ties into mag ride in regards to comfort/dynamic settings right?


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[EmmanueleDesign]

I have ED springs and they ride amazing.

In the future, I am considering a fully height adjustable/dampening coilover setup.

Aside from codes, what happens with "drive select" functioning. If I understand this correctly, this ties into mag ride in regards to comfort/dynamic settings right?


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Basically you have a code in the dash at all times and drive select does nothing for suspension settings. So far we haven't had luck with the KW delete kit.

[S3BURPS]

Basically you have a code in the dash at all times and drive select does nothing for suspension settings. So far we haven't had luck with the KW delete kit.

So ultimately the drive select has nothing to do with suspension or is it eliminated when mag ride dampers are removed?


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[EmmanueleDesign]

So ultimately the drive select has nothing to do with suspension or is it eliminated when mag ride dampers are removed?


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Drive select does affect dampening, but this feature is eliminated when you remove the factory units.

[GramCracker]

Is anyone aware if the Neuspeed springs are interchangeable between mag ride and non-mag ride cars? It seems they are but I'd like a second opinion.

[S3BURPS]

Drive select does affect dampening, but this feature is eliminated when you remove the factory units.

Makes total sense to me now. Thank you for the explanation.

Still learning about this car. I rather save the lights for Christmas and not my dash.

Thanks again Thomas.


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[XLR8 Craig]

The magnetic ride on this car is actually far more advanced technology than most coilover kits sold for these cars right now (in my opinion based off factual data). I usually recommend those who have the mag ride to keep it active on the car but it really depends what your intentions were for buying this car were. You can improve upon the ride quality and significantly increasing the handling performance of the car with a set of springs designed around the magnetic ride (which most on the market right now are not).

Are you looking to slam the car? Are you looking for only a minor drop but want the car to ride well and not be bouncy? All things to consider. Currently there are no 100% solutions to getting rid of the light and codes for the Mag ride, the KW delete kit doesn't seem to be a working solution for everyone at this time. We are the North American Distributor for MSS Kits, MSS has designed their springs around the factory technology. Below is a post by a user on another forum in a thread discussing this same topic, hopefully it sheds a little bit of light on why the stock shocks are so great and all they need are a little help with the proper spring setup.

Below are quotes from the discussion which I can link to you via pm if you are interested in reading the whole thread.

Basically. The necessity of going to B8 when you normally run a lowering spring is because you don't have enough damping force, when you are dealing with a conventional dampers. The damping force is fixed, they can't increase it unless you have a different mechanical valving that gives you more hydraulic force. Which is where B8 come in, because its a stiffer, more aggressive valving. Having an adaptive shock, the controller have height sensors monitoring the damper position, which tells it where the wheel/body position is, how fast its moving, how far away it's from its end stop, and it commands the shock to go to what setting via current sent and that translate into x amount of force to control the movement through its electronically controlled valve. If its lowering spring, it realistically is no different than how it works normally, it will see its closer to end of the travel and command it to have more force. And since Bilstein's system doesn't really change the programming of the controller, its doing things that are no different than what the OEM thing will do, and their force range for the damper are not drastically different between all the different type of designs out there.


Basically. You have a response time between when you command a force(change the current output to the shock) vs when that force actually happens hydraulically. Your sensors senses the wheel position however many times a sec, and the controller takes that and spits out what level of damping it needs at that given time. And it takes some x amount of time for that to happen. Now every technology is different based on the design of the valves, so naturally they don't react quite the same, and your programming will take into account of that. Porsche/Nissan obviously found ways to make Bilstein's valve work well enough that they use it, but from when we tested them for our own use at my previous work the way the Bilstein design changes its damping force it takes longer for it to switch and react vs what the valve used in DCC(made by Ohlins). The issue here I see more, rather than that outright difference in technology capability, is that VW's DCC programming is designed to use with the dampers came on the car, and you plug something different in there that reacts and functions differently, while it'll probably function, it just won't function the same.

Again I see the coilover option is fine, KW actually uses the same valve that VW uses in DCC. Bilstein uses their own thing. But since the main purpose there is to get coilovers that marketing makes more sense. B8 being basically a "lowering" replacement strut, realistically with a semi-active damper the negative aspect of lowering without changing damper is basically moot because the damper can adapt to the situation just fine, and if it does not its a programming issue, not hardware issue. And changing hardware won't buy you anything.

OEM passive unit. The DCC struts are not passive. The lowered passive struts runs into issue because you have same damping force working with less shock travel, thus unable to properly control the the mass. The entire reason to have semi-active/adaptive damper is to be able to ADAPT to the condition. The design of the Bilstein DCC plug and play valving and what they used with the regular B8 is not the same, they swap the piston with a controlled variable valve that can change damping force. So whatever previous design of their passive B8(which has the same valving as their B6, non-lowered strut, BTW) is not carried over to this, nor does it need to carry over to this, because just like the DCC, it adapts to the less travel. Monotube/Twintube argument is not really all that meaningful in this context when you talk about semi-active damper anyway, and as far as technology used here the Ohlins design/manufactured controlled solenoid valve used in the DCC were much faster reacting vs the Bilstein unit we tested from Porsche's PASM.

Monroe is the brand name, the company that owns Monroe is Tenneco.

This is your normal damper piston design:


Not all are the same, but they are all sorta doing the same thing. The thin metal shim and how they are stacked translate to some amount of spring force working against the flow of the shock oil flowing through it, and that resistance and leakage through the stack is your damping force.

When you get to semi-active stuff every company does it differently:

This is Bilstein's(as seen on PASM on factory Porsche)


This is Tenneco's(DCC):


All are doing the same thing, just do it differently. Some current is input to the control valve, something moves and it changes the restriction of the hydraulic flow through it, creates damping force. Unlike the fixed damping design, you can change that restriction and thus the force changes.

[TCHUN003]

How much are the MSS kits? They're height adjustable right?

[phillyquattro]

I currently have Bilstein B14s on my car. Love the ride/handling of the car. Can't stand the consistent dampening error I get every single time I drive the car. Eventually I'm going to re-install the mag-ride system and go with a fully adjustable MSS kit...but it's not really on top of my priority list right now.

[XLR8 Craig]

How much are the MSS kits? They're height adjustable right?

Depending on the kits yes. 10-30mm drop range on the fully adjustable kits. The standard kits are adjustable 10-30mmin the rear.. front is fixed 10mm drop.

Street Standard - $640
Street Fully Adjustable - $857
Sport Standard - $1,066
Sport Fully Adjustable - $1,145
Track Fully Adjustable - $1,430

Those are retail prices. We are offering these 10% right now since we are waiting on the stocking order arrival.

Thanks,

Greg

[saxon]

Depending on the kits yes. 10-30mm drop range on the fully adjustable kits. The standard kits are adjustable 10-30mmin the rear.. front is fixed 10mm drop.

Street Standard - $640
Street Fully Adjustable - $857
Sport Standard - $1,066
Sport Fully Adjustable - $1,145
Track Fully Adjustable - $1,430

Those are retail prices. We are offering these 10% right now since we are waiting on the stocking order arrival.

Thanks,

Greg

does mss reprogram the suspension? if not they can only do so much with a spring and won't be able to overcome the factory programming.

seems like a lot of money for an adjustable set of springs

[roadrunner_oz]

Depending on the kits yes. 10-30mm drop range on the fully adjustable kits. The standard kits are adjustable 10-30mmin the rear.. front is fixed 10mm drop.

Street Standard - $640
Street Fully Adjustable - $857
Sport Standard - $1,066
Sport Fully Adjustable - $1,145
Track Fully Adjustable - $1,430

Those are retail prices. We are offering these 10% right now since we are waiting on the stocking order arrival.

Thanks,

Greg

Are the springs linear or progressive?

[XLR8 Craig]

does mss reprogram the suspension? if not they can only do so much with a spring and won't be able to overcome the factory programming.

seems like a lot of money for an adjustable set of springs

Reprogram the suspension? No this is entirely unnecessary. MSS has designed their springs and rates using precise factory data from the shock manufacturer so that they are perfectly balanced to improve the ride quality and out perform just about every spring on the market. Local owners are more than welcome to contact us to set up test drives in the Golf R we have put a set of springs on.

Are the springs linear or progressive?

Fronts are linear and rears are stacked progressive.

Hope this helps! Another other questions, I am here to help.

Cheers

Greg

[will13k7]

You get codes that won't go away, even with the KW delete kit that has worked on other platforms. Just ask @will13k7.

this.




















... someone's got to fix this, quality coilovers are superior to magride in every way (based on my experience and opinion).

[salvadorik]

This is a good question. I am in a similar situation as my S3 has mag ride as well. As far as magnetic shocks I believe they should last long time. They are not cheap items to replace. The front magnetic shock costs $735 per shock and the rear one $630. Just parts run $2,700 plus tax and the installation will bring the cost of replacement to more than $4K if assuming one decides to stay stock.

[S3BURPS]

Let's keep this going. Eventually I will transfer over to a full coilover setup. I have ran fully height/dampening adjustable coilovers and were far more superior than any suspension, magride, etc. This of course has to be a quality coilover setup as will13k7 has stated above. Nothing beats a well-built coilover setup tailored to the vehicle and driver's needs.


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[pabs]

I'm just going to dump this info here instead of making a new thread since it pertains to the subject:

A UK VCDS guru DJAlix sniffed out some VCDS codes, but ultimately nothing has come out of it yet, see thread below from another forum:
Audi-Sport Mag Ride Thread

KW Kit doesn't work properly:
will13k7 Audizine KW EDC Cancellation Kit Thread

Magnetic ride shocks can be reset/calibrated by the dealer:
roadrunner_oz Audizine Mag Ride Calibration

Random:
Eibach USA has recently released a pro-kit spring for the 8V S3, no idea if its linear or progressive, the EU version is linear I think.

In addition to MSS Kits, it seems that Ground Control is working on an adjustable kit but needs testers according to this post.

I've personally got a set of ED springs arriving next week to pair with my mag ride until a better option surfaces. I'll probably just be happy with the springs judging by the feedback so far.

[S3BURPS]

Thanks for the info pabs. A lot of useful information to refer to from time to time.

[S3BURPS]

Any successful fault code deletions yet?


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[XLR8 Craig]

Any successful fault code deletions yet?


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I have not been aware of any sudden breakthroughs at this time.

[Wr3ks_S3]

Sorry to bump this.

But are these faults everyone's talking about strictly with coil-overs and/or air ride for mag ride cars?

Or are people also seeing dash lights even with springs/MRC? I'm about to order some ED springs but don't want a Christmas tree on my $50k dashboard.

Thanks.

[ahfunaki]

Sorry to bump this.

But are these faults everyone's talking about strictly with coil-overs and/or air ride for mag ride cars?

Or are people also seeing dash lights even with springs/MRC? I'm about to order some ED springs but don't want a Christmas tree on my $50k dashboard.

Thanks.

You only get lights when you replace the mag ride system completely. Springs won't cause any lights...

I just installed ED springs a few days ago and no lights.

[1S32K16]

I got ED springs installed by Thomas about 3 weeks ago. Loving them so much more than stock springs. No lights or codes very happy with product and service provided by Emmanuele Designs.

[Wr3ks_S3]

You only get lights when you replace the mag ride system completely. Springs won't cause any lights...

I just installed ED springs a few days ago and no lights.

I asked this also on the FB S3 group but always good to confirm from other sources, thank you.

I got ED springs installed by Thomas about 3 weeks ago. Loving them so much more than stock springs. No lights or codes very happy with product and service provided by Emmanuele Designs.

Good to hear! Ordering today.

[diztek]

kinda off topic, but vwr is claiming that their springs are designed to work with the mag ride. anyone have experience with vwr springs?

[LOT4R]

kinda off topic, but vwr is claiming that their springs are designed to work with the mag ride. anyone have experience with vwr springs?

Take a look at this thread. Member does a nice job comparing H&R S, ED, and VWR. If I can remember correctly, the VWRs were really slammed (too much for OEM struts and shocks), rubbed, and super bouncy.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ele-Design-VWR

[XLR8 Craig]

kinda off topic, but vwr is claiming that their springs are designed to work with the mag ride. anyone have experience with vwr springs?

There are very few springs that work well with Mag Ride. The H&R Front springs are okay, but they are too stiff, and the rears are way too stiff for these cars. This is why most people see such a decrease in ride quality.

We have had awesome results with the MSS spring kits on testers. Kits are due to arrive very shortly. ED springs have worked well as a less costly kit for those just looking to lower the car with a decent ride. They perform well too, but we haven't tested them like we have the MSS.

[pbi76]

Hi. Does anyone have experience with the Neuspeed isweep cancellation kit?

http://www.neuspeed.com/isdccmk7r-is...kit.html#popUp[products]/2/

[will13k7]

Hi. Does anyone have experience with the Neuspeed isweep cancellation kit?

http://www.neuspeed.com/isdccmk7r-is...kit.html#popUp[products]/2/

Perfect for:
- Coilover kits that do not offer provision for DCC cancellation
- Replacement for other companies' frequent failing cancellers*
- Airbag system

lol, love that second bullet. someone take the plunge and try it!

[will13k7]

lol, love that second bullet. someone take the plunge and try it!

ordered. I will report back. @phillyquattro

[S3BURPS]

I still have my ED springs with about 5k miles on them in excellent shape if someone wants to buy them. They are all boxed up and ready to go.

Curious about this Neuspeed canceller kit now that I am on coilovers and the KW didn't do jack squat.


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[John P.]

ordered. I will report back. @phillyquattro

Awesome. This would be a game changer.

[949]

Awesome. This would be a game changer.

kw also has a version of their own. I didn't think it was a game changer as a few people said it didn't work properly.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi. Does anyone have experience with the Neuspeed isweep cancellation kit?

http://www.neuspeed.com/isdccmk7r-is...kit.html#popUp[products]/2/

good find.

[Cairo94507]

I have the 034 Motorsports springs in my Mag-ride '16 S3. They lowered the car about 1/2" and the car rides great. I also added their rear sway bar and the combination of the two is perfect for me. I don't track my car; it is a daily driver.

[rex_racer]

Hi. Does anyone have experience with the Neuspeed isweep cancellation kit?

http://www.neuspeed.com/isdccmk7r-is...kit.html#popUp[products]/2/

Great find. Woulda been nice if Neuspeed listed it under one of the categories on their website haha.