New S4 confirmed to use new twin-turbo 3.0-liter V6?

[Saleen S7 TT]

U.S. specifications have yet to be announced, but you can expect the same drivetrains offered in the A4 and S4. The U.S.-spec A4 uses a 2.0-liter, 252-hp turbocharged four-cylinder mated to a seven-speed dual clutch automatic transmission, while the S4 uses a new twin-turbo 3.0-liter V6 sending 354 horsepower to all four wheels through a conventional eight-speed automatic.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...17-audi-a5-s5/

[bmoreS4]

Hmmmm, I can dig it

[damnbiker]

Is the new a4 7 speed dsg going to be the same one our B8/8.5 S4's have? If so then the exclusivity of the current S4/5/6/7 models will be gone...

[cjw]

I haven't found any concrete info on the next S4 since the initial release.

[Loe]

the S5 is a single turbo (there is a technical video posted on the S5 section), I would imagine the S4 using the same. It's a top/center mounted turbo.

[Gusman1]

I believe that is a typo. I'm pretty sure the S4/S5 will have a single turbo V6 not twin.

[jl87]

the S5 is a single turbo (there is a technical video posted on the S5 section), I would imagine the S4 using the same. It's a top/center mounted turbo.

This. Maybe twin scroll, but not twin turbo

[JohnEnglish]

Yup, in the interviews with the engineers they always refer to it as a single turbo motor. The RS4 may be a twin turbo or it may use the same engine with more boost and an electric compressor to eliminate lag.

[S4 00 2.7]

+1 on twin scroll

[Dudemans4]

I'm stoked !!!! Can't wait to see what the tuners do with them

[Dr GP]

Yawn, Can't get interested without a 6MT or at least a DSG.

[14S4GWM]

I thought this was semi old news? Single turbo.

[carlosvjr92]

It's a single turbo

[mcoomer]

Yawn, Can't get interested without a 6MT or at least a DSG.

It does sound like they're moving forwards with the engine and backwards with the tranny. Can't get too stoked about a conventional tranny.

[DBFL]

Yawn, Can't get interested without a 6MT or at least a DSG.

+1.
6MT or nothing for me.

[Dubious]

Hate to see the model go away from DSG! They need work on engineering the DSG to handle more Tq since it has so much potential.

[simbat]

I'm so glad I got my 15' S4 6MT

For some reason I don't find the newer cars with all this touch screen digital stuff who nobody actually needs. And long therm reliability bothers me too with so much stuff in

[LINDW4LL]

Hate to see the model go away from DSG! They need work on engineering the DSG to handle more Tq since it has so much potential.

The 4.0T in the S6/S7 makes more torque than the incoming S4, and the DSG is just fine. And, not that this matters from Audi's standpoint, but tuned S6s are making nearly 700 ft lbs and tuners have yet to see any issues arise. Interesting note-, the S6 also uses the DL501 (same trans used in the B8 S4) and according to APR appears to use the same clutch packs, too.

I am sort of baffled as to why Audi made the switch to the ZF, to be honest. I originally figured it was to make the car smoother, but if that were the case they would not have stuck the S-Tronic in every new A4.

Either way, the ZF shouldn't disappoint. I'm much more crushed by the lack of a manual. It will be interesting to see if Audi decides to offer it at some point in the future since the US A4 is getting the option later this year.

[silverf0x]

No manual, no Audi.
Back to Subaru I guess, after the S4..

[Hofahome]

I really want to like the b9 s4, but besides the motor I find it meh. I could see myself picking up a used s6 in the future over that.

[shoe3k]

The 4.0T in the S6/S7 makes more torque than the incoming S4, and the DSG is just fine. And, not that this matters from Audi's standpoint, but tuned S6s are making nearly 700 ft lbs and tuners have yet to see any issues arise. Interesting note-, the S6 also uses the DL501 (same trans used in the B8 S4) and according to APR appears to use the same clutch packs, too.

I am sort of baffled as to why Audi made the switch to the ZF, to be honest. I originally figured it was to make the car smoother, but if that were the case they would not have stuck the S-Tronic in every new A4.

Either way, the ZF shouldn't disappoint. I'm much more crushed by the lack of a manual. It will be interesting to see if Audi decides to offer it at some point in the future since the US A4 is getting the option later this year.

It could be as simple as costs and the long term plans for Audi, which doesn't mean they are ditching the DSG because of TQ issues. I honestly don't care what transmission Audi uses as long as it is functional, durable, and able to handle power upgrades with no issues. When I mention "functional", it should have good shifting logic, rev matching, and fast shifts like a sport sedan should have. I have driven ZF equipped cars and the transmission is fantastic.

[eightamrock]

It could be as simple as costs and the long term plans for Audi, which doesn't mean they are ditching the DSG because of TQ issues. I honestly don't care what transmission Audi uses as long as it is functional, durable, and able to handle power upgrades with no issues. When I mention "functional", it should have good shifting logic, rev matching, and fast shifts like a sport sedan should have. I have driven ZF equipped cars and the transmission is fantastic.

Last year (2015) VW said the Golf R would no longer come in manual, it was exclusively DSG. This year, they released the 2016 models with manual. I imagine that they will release manual in the 2018 or 2019 version. They probably want 1 drivetrain to worry about since they are completely changing the platform. After they hammer out the kinks, they will put other options out there. I couldnt imagine them rebuffing it. Unlike the US, european drives primarly drive manuals, so the cars will be made to support it eventually.

That said, this news made me rush out to get a '16 6MT. Glad I kept her now :P

[shoe3k]

Last year (2015) VW said the Golf R would no longer come in manual, it was exclusively DSG. This year, they released the 2016 models with manual. I imagine that they will release manual in the 2018 or 2019 version. They probably want 1 drivetrain to worry about since they are completely changing the platform. After they hammer out the kinks, they will put other options out there. I couldnt imagine them rebuffing it. Unlike the US, european drives primarly drive manuals, so the cars will be made to support it eventually.

That said, this news made me rush out to get a '16 6MT. Glad I kept her now :P

It would be funny if the manual option would cost more than the auto :P.

[Eric_C]

If you all are hoping the A8 will be great compared to the DSG, it's not.

Own a '14 S4 and a '15 SQ5 and the A8 is no DSG. Yes upshifts are fast but that's about it. Extremely harsh part throttle shifts which Audi claims is normal. The logic is no where near as good as the DSG either.

Combining that with the turbo motor ends what IMO was one of the best drivetrain combo's on the market.

[Dubious]

The 4.0T in the S6/S7 makes more torque than the incoming S4, and the DSG is just fine. And, not that this matters from Audi's standpoint, but tuned S6s are making nearly 700 ft lbs and tuners have yet to see any issues arise. Interesting note-, the S6 also uses the DL501 (same trans used in the B8 S4) and according to APR appears to use the same clutch packs, too.

I am sort of baffled as to why Audi made the switch to the ZF, to be honest. I originally figured it was to make the car smoother, but if that were the case they would not have stuck the S-Tronic in every new A4.

Either way, the ZF shouldn't disappoint. I'm much more crushed by the lack of a manual. It will be interesting to see if Audi decides to offer it at some point in the future since the US A4 is getting the option later this year.

For some reason I thought Tq was the limiting factor of the DSG. Maybe this was just Audi propaganda.

[hodrosS42001]

U.S. specifications have yet to be announced, but you can expect the same drivetrains offered in the A4 and S4. The U.S.-spec A4 uses a 2.0-liter, 252-hp turbocharged four-cylinder mated to a seven-speed dual clutch automatic transmission, while the S4 uses a new twin-turbo 3.0-liter V6 sending 354 horsepower to all four wheels through a conventional eight-speed automatic.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...17-audi-a5-s5/

According to someone who has seen the engine in purpose.. it has a conventional turbo within the V and an electric blower to supplement at low rpm.

[hodrosS42001]

For some reason I thought Tq was the limiting factor of the DSG. Maybe this was just Audi propaganda.

As I have argued on countless occasions in the B9 forum.. the issue is not cost of the DSG or peak torque figure.. but when max torque is available.. since it is quoted at such a low RPM.. the car coupled with a DSG would be incredibly jerky on a daily commute. Now an enthusiast such as myself would like that.. but most would not.. and at the end of the day this is supposed to be a refined sports sedan for more of the businessman crowd. Within theory... this car, based on the reports would have more low end torque than a Stage 2 B8 S4.. which we know can be a tad bit jerky at times.. (even though I enjoy it personally) and be more comparable to a Stage 1 S6 (torque below 1600rpm).. which in dynamic.. is quite jerky off the line.. and that is with it being 800+ lbs heavier.

[hodrosS42001]

The 4.0T in the S6/S7 makes more torque than the incoming S4, and the DSG is just fine. And, not that this matters from Audi's standpoint, but tuned S6s are making nearly 700 ft lbs and tuners have yet to see any issues arise. Interesting note-, the S6 also uses the DL501 (same trans used in the B8 S4) and according to APR appears to use the same clutch packs, too.

I am sort of baffled as to why Audi made the switch to the ZF, to be honest. I originally figured it was to make the car smoother, but if that were the case they would not have stuck the S-Tronic in every new A4.

Either way, the ZF shouldn't disappoint. I'm much more crushed by the lack of a manual. It will be interesting to see if Audi decides to offer it at some point in the future since the US A4 is getting the option later this year.

The S6 uses the DL511 not 501... and it does use different clutches.. I have held them in my hand. They're quite aggressive looking, they seem to have more of channel for fluid to pass through as well which might help for cooling. The friction surfaces also seem to be a bit wider.

[Loe]

No issues with the ZF8 in my other car, it's a very fast/aggressive shifter when it's queued to do so, and it rev matches better than the DSG. It's not an old-school slush box, the torque converter locks up within a fraction of seconds in 1st gear, and stays locked in all gears directly after an upshift, giving the impression of a direct mechanical link.

[pdqgp]

I am sort of baffled as to why Audi made the switch to the ZF, to be honest. I originally figured it was to make the car smoother, but if that were the case they would not have stuck the S-Tronic in every new A4.

Either way, the ZF shouldn't disappoint. I'm much more crushed by the lack of a manual. It will be interesting to see if Audi decides to offer it at some point in the future since the US A4 is getting the option later this year.

My guess is cost savings. Don't have any stats but it's gotta be more costly to put a DSG in a car than an automatic. Likely less maint. and costs to repair as well. Add to that some nuances that stock cars have in terms of drivability to the average driver who might consider them complaint points as they don't fully understand what a DSG or S-Tronic as it's called really is.

[jygesq]

None of the above discussion explains why DSG is going in new A4 , but NOT in S4

[MrFunk]

This will surely be my last S4. I'll hold on to it for as long as I can (heck it's paid off and only hit 35k on it yesterday after nearly 5 years of ownership!). Next car added to stable will be a mid engine rear drive MT car of sorts (Porsche perhaps? Lotus?). Shame they didn't progress the S4 with enthusiasts in mind but look at what BMW has done. They used to be known for driver focused cars which they have entirely lost. It's a business though and entirely deliberate.

I will say this, I'm sure the motor will be under rated and putting out closer to 390hp. Hopefully Audi doesn't try and make it impossible to tune. Remember how long it took tuners to crack the B8 ECU?!?

[audioclip]

It appears they use a single turbo with twin scrolls
https://youtu.be/1cvWc2wNEOI

[RudyH]

For some reason I thought Tq was the limiting factor of the DSG. Maybe this was just Audi propaganda.

Maybe for the DL501 - or general model of that transmission. It's what almost 10 yrs old now? Audi just needs to invest in a new design, but Audi accountants are likely not happy.
Modern cars are pushing it far past anything the RS7 has to worry about. It's all Audi propaganda that people like to sip on, just like how the TT's weren't suppose to go past 250 lbs-ft when they first came out. The DCT technology is just fine.

[hotleadsingergu]

Is the new a4 7 speed dsg going to be the same one our B8/8.5 S4's have? If so then the exclusivity of the current S4/5/6/7 models will be gone...

No. It's probably still a TipTronic. They wouldn't put the S-Tronic in an A-series without jacking up the price.

[cjw]

None of the above discussion explains why DSG is going in new A4 , but NOT in S4

This. The current A4 uses the ZF8 speed and the S4 uses a DSG and they reversed that. Seems quite odd.

[hotleadsingergu]

It appears they use a single turbo with twin scrolls
https://youtu.be/1cvWc2wNEOI

What are you linking? lol a video with 214 views of some random render. There's not even a remote chance they have inside info, of any kind.

[Saleen S7 TT]

Lol, Road and Track really dropped the ball on this one it seems!

[seanentrust]

was hoping it would be a twin turbo like a mini 4.0t. I wonder if it's the same 3.0t minus the supercharger?

[Ray Khan]

Did they loose the rubber dampened crank pulley? I like the exhaust manifold design. I don't like the lack of a manual in this platform but I will have to drive it.