DIY: Motor work, Timing tensioner or anything with the motor and front end

[Theiceman]

So now I guess we just wait and see how this unfolds

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

[f4d3]

Hi all, long time lurker and almost first time poster. I am in the middle of this process and figured I would add my results, notice that the teeth are warn down flatter and at some point just wouldn't hold anymore; this is only a theory as I don't have a brand new one to compare to.


Top chain stretch:

Bottom chain stretch:


The common broken mesh screen that I was unable to locate:


And for the LOLZ broken piston components in the oil snorkel:


I have a ton of pics of the process as well so if any particulars are interesting to anyone I will freely share.

[Sharper_Image]

i said F*ck it and bought another Pump.


so far i have these checked off.

-Engine Timing (checked)
-HPFP (changed, but going to install another one incase 1st one was defective)
-Fuel lines (checked)
-Injectors (checked)

[Theiceman]

Hi all, long time lurker and almost first time poster. I am in the middle of this process and figured I would add my results, notice that the teeth are warn down flatter and at some point just wouldn't hold anymore; this is only a theory as I don't have a brand new one to compare to.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...ZOZlU4NWNRYnBB

Top chain stretch:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...J0RXB5dmZQYkxn
Bottom chain stretch:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...FHeVI1T2NtRU13

The common broken mesh screen that I was unable to locate:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...FELWtkdlpNZ0J3

And for the LOLZ broken piston components in the oil snorkel:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...0wdzlidVNuRmZR

I have a ton of pics of the process as well so if any particulars are interesting to anyone I will freely share.

i hate clicking on links to go someplace else to look at pics. if you want people to review and comment , try embedding pics .

- - - Updated - - -

i said F*ck it and bought another Pump.


so far i have these checked off.

-Engine Timing (checked)
-HPFP (changed, but going to install another one incase 1st one was defective)
-Fuel lines (checked)
-Injectors (checked)

that is pure car porn for grease monkeys ..... where did you get it ?

[Sharper_Image]

i hate clicking on links to go someplace else to look at pics. if you want people to review and comment , try embedding pics .

- - - Updated - - -



that is pure car porn for grease monkeys ..... where did you get it ?

ECS tuning.

Okay guys everything is back together new HPFP installed. Started the car and scanned using VCDS, cleared all codes let the car idle and brought coolant temp to 100c, check High fuel pressure and it is steady at 46 bars. Let the engine run for another 10 minutes until fan kicked on. Shut engine off but left it on ON position to monitor fuel pressure with heat soak, fast forward 10 minutes and fuel pressure went up to about 77 bars and stayed. Started the engine back on and let it idle for another 20 minutes check fuel pressure at 46 bars and stayed there for the whole 20 minutes untill i shut down engine.

[Theiceman]

english man english ..... is it fixed ?????

i was thinking if your problem and watched this excellent video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8FTOTdibcY

this guys is a really good trouble shooter... not our engine of course but some great techniques...

[Sharper_Image]

english man english ..... is it fixed ?????

i was thinking if your problem and watched this excellent video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8FTOTdibcY

this guys is a really good trouble shooter... not our engine of course but some great techniques...

Not sure im gonna take it for a drive. It usually takes a day or 2 for the CEL to come on. But according to ross tech rail pressure should be around 25 to 110 bar im at 46 bar on idle i should be good.

[Theiceman]

i hope so .. we need to get some things fixed as this thread is getting really messed up with guys posting different issues to it. it gets confusing.. :)

[Kolbenringe]

You will have to drive it enough eventually because the timr and mileage of the last reset is stored and if it's too close to inspection, the car will get failed.

[old guy]

ECS tuning.

Okay guys everything is back together new HPFP installed. Started the car and scanned 2013 CAEB.VCDS, cleared all codes let the car idle and brought coolant temp to 100c, check High fuel pressure and it is steady at 46 bars. Let the engine run for another 10 minutes until fan kicked on. Shut engine off but left it on ON position to monitor fuel pressure with heat soak, fast forward 10 minutes and fuel pressure went up to about 77 bars and stayed. Started the engine back on and let it idle for another 20 minutes check fuel pressure at 46 bars and stayed there for the whole 20 minutes untill i shut down engine.

Point of reference: 2013 CAEB with 6 MT in neutral. A/C turned off. Cold start fuel pressure 58 bar. End of cold start cycle 38 bar at idle. Maintains 38 bar at full operating temperature.

[Theiceman]

Point of reference: 2013 CAEB with 6 MT in neutral. A/C turned off. Cold start fuel pressure 58 bar. End of cold start cycle 38 bar at idle. Maintains 38 bar at full operating temperature.

we should do more of " what good looks like " for so many things. By now ( if we were organized ) we would have a full profile of what every parameter looks like under all operating conditions cataloged.

[Sharper_Image]

Light came back on, on my way to work lol i give up.

[khj677turbo]

So now I guess we just wait and see how this unfolds

Sent from my SM-G973W using Audizine mobile app

Update to this: Had the car towed to a shop who had no issue getting the bolt out holding the flywheel. He glossed over whether or not a torch was used on the bolt but did say the crank gear fell off. Car is back to me and mechanically back to where I was when this issue cropped up. Thanks for the advice, this was definitely not something I was willing to troubleshoot at the time.
I'm putting the front of the the car back together and will have to trouble shoot an electrical issue. For some reason the car will not respond to pressing "Start" to power accessories and so I can move it out of Park. I have a few different lights on the dash and the two passenger side MMI buttons/lights are lit. Not sure if this is a result of disconnecting the battery for a long period of time. I'm not seeing anything like this on the batter replacement threads so might be a separate issue.

[Theiceman]

Update to this: Had the car towed to a shop who had no issue getting the bolt out holding the flywheel. He glossed over whether or not a torch was used on the bolt but did say the crank gear fell off. Car is back to me and mechanically back to where I was when this issue cropped up. Thanks for the advice, this was definitely not something I was willing to troubleshoot at the time.
I'm putting the front of the the car back together and will have to trouble shoot an electrical issue. For some reason the car will not respond to pressing "Start" to power accessories and so I can move it out of Park. I have a few different lights on the dash and the two passenger side MMI buttons/lights are lit. Not sure if this is a result of disconnecting the battery for a long period of time. I'm not seeing anything like this on the batter replacement threads so might be a separate issue.

exactly what i had expected with the crank gear, did he tell you how he held the flywheel ? i would be just interested out of curiosity.

guess he had to drop the lower timing cover to put it all back together.. gotta thing a few hundred at least .. but hey its fixed ...

[khj677turbo]

exactly what i had expected with the crank gear, did he tell you how he held the flywheel ? i would be just interested out of curiosity.

guess he had to drop the lower timing cover to put it all back together.. gotta thing a few hundred at least .. but hey its fixed ...

No he didn't elaborate on it other than confirming that they held it at the flywheel and it was no issue. Yep unfortunately a costly enough mistake to make this project almost not financially worth it. He was nice enough to take it as is and return it without charging me extra labor to put it back together.

[mtroxel]

No he didn't elaborate on it other than confirming that they held it at the flywheel and it was no issue. Yep unfortunately a costly enough mistake to make this project almost not financially worth it. He was nice enough to take it as is and return it without charging me extra labor to put it back together.

Sounds like you paid for a tow, each way.

[khj677turbo]

Sounds like you paid for a tow, each way.

AAA

[Smac770]

I went to look for the return line and this was all i found.



RED: looks like the supply fuel line to the HPFP.
Green: looks like it goes to a vacuum check valve then to the intake manifold and turbo.
Yellow: looks like it goes to the vacuum pump that sits behind the Cylinder head.

These were the only Lines i see.

And that's all there. Red is fuel line from in-tank pump to HPFP. Green is vent line from EVAP canister to EVAP purge regulator valve N80. Yellow is vacuum line from vacuum pump to EVAP leak detection pump V144.

Unlike EA113 FSI where the pressure limiting valve was on the high pressure rail, and vented back into the lower pressure fuel line, the EA888 TSI has the pressure limiting valve built into the HPFP. A mechanical check valve opens at 200 bar, venting pressure back into the HPFP delivery chamber. Then there's some dampener system in the HPFP to smooth the venting of excess back into the low pressure line.


For our cars, high pressure should regulate to between 40 and 150 bar. But as old_guy posts, I too see 38-39 bar when idling in park with climate control off. (note, I do not have a flex-fuel motor running E85; on E85 detected, the flex-fuel motor will be managing the fuel pressure differently).

[Sharper_Image]

And that's all there. Red is fuel line from in-tank pump to HPFP. Green is vent line from EVAP canister to EVAP purge regulator valve N80. Yellow is vacuum line from vacuum pump to EVAP leak detection pump V144.

Unlike EA113 FSI where the pressure limiting valve was on the high pressure rail, and vented back into the lower pressure fuel line, the EA888 TSI has the pressure limiting valve built into the HPFP. A mechanical check valve opens at 200 bar, venting pressure back into the HPFP delivery chamber. Then there's some dampener system in the HPFP to smooth the venting of excess back into the low pressure line.


For our cars, high pressure should regulate to between 40 and 150 bar. But as old_guy posts, I too see 38-39 bar when idling in park with climate control off. (note, I do not have a flex-fuel motor running E85; on E85 detected, the flex-fuel motor will be managing the fuel pressure differently).

I just don't know where else to go from here, i checked and replaced everything that would trigger the P0088

[Kolbenringe]

Audi diagnostics specialist.

[Sharper_Image]

Audi diagnostics specialist.

I think it's time

[Smac770]

"i used the dial gauge to find TDC, i rotated the crank back and forth until i was confident enough that its at absolute TDC, after that i went ahead and checked the marking on the pulley and it is dead on with the marking on the timing cover"

Reading this brought to mind this quote from the engine mechanical repair guide:
"If the crankshaft was turned past “TDC”, turn the crankshaft two more turns in the direction of the engine rotation. Do not turn the engine in the opposite direction of the engine rotation."

Oh, a second statement from the guide:
"Use a ratchet with a 24 mm socket to turn the vibration damper. Always turn vibration damper in direction of engine rotation to TDC. Do not turn the vibration damper backward to get to TDC!"

[Smac770]

Damn, need a map to navigate the discussions in this thread.

So on Sharper_Image's discussion, so just to be clear, it is a P0088, not a P08B (which is low pressure fuel system - pressure too high) [B and I and O should never have been allowed in OBD codes, but guess that's just obvious to computer people]. Have you run logs of the high fuel pressure specified vs. fuel pressure (i.e., actual high fuel pressure) to see how much it's going over and when (under WOT, right when letting off of WOT, is actual having a hard time tracking specified, etc). As noted already, your idle pressure seems high (39+-1 bar expected, you're running 46 bar), but maybe you were idling in drive with the A/C running or something. Is your low pressure pump duty cycle seeming normal or high (fuel pump: specified value)? Have you tested the low pressure system to see if it's in spec (5 bar if using the output test, needs to still be at least 3 bar after 10 minutes)? You have a code, but have you validated the scenario that sets it. This understanding is necessary to speculate on a root cause.

I assume with excess fuel pressure, you're seeing rich fuel trims. Does the data support that? Are you seeing rich for mix and idle, or just one or the other?

Here's a cool pair of youtube videos on the subject. I found it interesting since it too was a P0088 after fixing a P0016 (or your case, engine self-destruction). I need to get one of those PicoScopes; someone send me a winning lottery ticket (brick of gold works too).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-CtDXw9gJs and www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHRbwR-T1jY

Not sure how an intake cam being slightly off time can impact fuel rail pressure. The HPFP isn't even driven by the intake cam. The sensor is on the rail, and the rail is a closed system with five ports (four injectors and one pump). I assume the issue comes from the timing of the four pumps of the HPFP by the exhaust cam lobe and the firing of injectors? The HPFP is probably overdriving the rail at the same moment the injector is firing to ensure retained pressure level. If that timing is off, the pump is shoving the fuel in when fuel is not going out and the pressure goes high? Pages 41/42 of SSP 921703 are about clear as mud. Guessing that the N276 is operated based on the ECU's assumption of timing, while the piston pump is operated on the actuality of the exhaust cam rotation. So if it's off a little, then the dance gets messed up.

I find it curious that this CDAx engine with CAN ECU has a high pressure pump duty cycle, but our CAEx UDS EDU does not have that value (my understanding is that IDE001893 fuel pump: specified value is for the in-tank low pressure fuel pump).

And just when you think there's nothing left it could be, you can always count on VAG cost cutting measures to screw you. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2005a7KFo

[Sharper_Image]

Damn, need a map to navigate the discussions in this thread.

So on Sharper_Image's discussion, so just to be clear, it is a P0088, not a P08B (which is low pressure fuel system - pressure too high) [B and I and O should never have been allowed in OBD codes, but guess that's just obvious to computer people]. Have you run logs of the high fuel pressure specified vs. fuel pressure (i.e., actual high fuel pressure) to see how much it's going over and when (under WOT, right when letting off of WOT, is actual having a hard time tracking specified, etc). As noted already, your idle pressure seems high (39+-1 bar expected, you're running 46 bar), but maybe you were idling in drive with the A/C running or something. Is your low pressure pump duty cycle seeming normal or high (fuel pump: specified value)? Have you tested the low pressure system to see if it's in spec (5 bar if using the output test, needs to still be at least 3 bar after 10 minutes)? You have a code, but have you validated the scenario that sets it. This understanding is necessary to speculate on a root cause.

I assume with excess fuel pressure, you're seeing rich fuel trims. Does the data support that? Are you seeing rich for mix and idle, or just one or the other?

Here's a cool pair of youtube videos on the subject. I found it interesting since it too was a P0088 after fixing a P0016 (or your case, engine self-destruction). I need to get one of those PicoScopes; someone send me a winning lottery ticket (brick of gold works too).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-CtDXw9gJs and www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHRbwR-T1jY

Not sure how an intake cam being slightly off time can impact fuel rail pressure. The HPFP isn't even driven by the intake cam. The sensor is on the rail, and the rail is a closed system with five ports (four injectors and one pump). I assume the issue comes from the timing of the four pumps of the HPFP by the exhaust cam lobe and the firing of injectors? The HPFP is probably overdriving the rail at the same moment the injector is firing to ensure retained pressure level. If that timing is off, the pump is shoving the fuel in when fuel is not going out and the pressure goes high? Pages 41/42 of SSP 921703 are about clear as mud. Guessing that the N276 is operated based on the ECU's assumption of timing, while the piston pump is operated on the actuality of the exhaust cam rotation. So if it's off a little, then the dance gets messed up.

I find it curious that this CDAx engine with CAN ECU has a high pressure pump duty cycle, but our CAEx UDS EDU does not have that value (my understanding is that IDE001893 fuel pump: specified value is for the in-tank low pressure fuel pump).

And just when you think there's nothing left it could be, you can always count on VAG cost cutting measures to screw you. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb2005a7KFo

I've been a little busy but once i find some time ill run some logs and recheck everything you've mentioned. I watched the above videos and tripple checked my timing i posted pictures on page 9, the intake and exhaust cams are within spec. The last video has me a little concerned, throughout the build i ended up buying a use exhaust camshaft from ebay because i accidentally dropped my oem camshaft and it chipped. I didn't want to risk using the old one so i bought one from Ebay i think it was from an a5, but after watching the last video has made me think. I didn't know it was possible for the cam gear to rotate.

[Smac770]

All the cam lobes on the intake cam can spin (seen others post that conclusion from time to time), as can the cog on the exhaust cam apparently. They are press fit (?) so excessive circumstances can spin them. There's no way to know unless you have measurement specs from a virgin cam or one in hand to compare. But as shown in the two first vids, no misfires or P0016, but still enough (probably in just the right direction) to upset the HPFP dance.

To do so, the compression of the HPFP piston must be occurring late. The ECU is going to pulse the regulator once during the piston compression stroke to cause the pressure to start to build up and deliver into the rail. The pulse collapses the regulator and allows the intake valve of the HPFP to fully close, and then it stays closed, even after the regulator is deenergized, until the piston expansion stroke. Until the pulse occurs, the intake valve is open and the compression just pushes the delivery chamber contents back into the low pressure inlet. The sooner that pulse occurs, the more pressure built up and more fuel delivered into the rail. So if the pulse occurs what the ECU thought was late in the cycle, but in reality was early since the cycle is behind in timing, ....

Outside of that physical dance, I can only imagine you have an inept sensor, bad wiring skewing the sensor to ECU reporting, or bad wiring skewing the ECU to regulator pulses.
The sensor seems a basic type, with 5v on pin 3 supplied by ECU T60/29 and ground on pin 1 supplied by ECU T60/13. Pin 2 is the output pin, with what should be a voltage between .5 and 4.5v, though the calibration, what relates to 40 bar and 150 bar, I have no idea. You might check that it's a good 5v and 0v on those pins at the sensor plug. The pin 2 output voltage is going to range linearly between the values on pins 1 and 3, so if you have some offset voltage present or such, it'll send back an incorrect voltage for the given measurement.

[Sharper_Image]

The fuel pressure sensor was also replaced recently with no luck. I checked and rechecked the wiring just to be sure, i never did a fuel pressure test with a gauge yet, i had planned on it but I've made up my mind and i don't wanna put any more time into this engine. If anybody else wanna give a crack at it, it will be For Sale soon as I'm planning on doing a 3.0t engine swap.

[whats77inaname]

Good looking out with this thread. Helped me change my friend's failed A5 fan assembly. Didn't have to drain the coolant, which was nice.

[RDA990]

Has anyone here used an eBay tool kit? Wondering if tool quality would matter for a 1 time use kit...

$21.48



$50.35

[Theiceman]

ive got the red one its fine,, i like the blue one though as it has the crank holding tool which is very nice.

[RDA990]

ive got the red one its fine,, i like the blue one though as it has the crank holding tool which is very nice.

Thanks! I'll order the red one.

I read a review on the blue one that said one of the crank holding tool pins broke. I'm going to get the longer one from ECS for ~$25 more vs blue kit.

[Theiceman]

thats a great looking tool.... pull that baby out from under your car seat and zombies are gonna run

[Kolbenringe]

Has anyone here used an eBay tool kit? Wondering if tool quality would matter for a 1 time use kit...

$21.48



$50.35

I have the VAG original tools. I would not scrimp on the crank holder. The others seem fine, but you don't need all of the tools for the cams, for instance. You really just need the cam locks, donut tool, crank holder, and cam tool. One of them in there is the seal driver for the front cover. I have it and don't recommend it at all. The covers come with seals anyhow and they are designed to be used with the cover on the engine and bolted up, which is really not a good way due to that crank gear's holding design. If you don't do it when the cover is bolted, the cover will bend. Those pins are only if reusing the old timing chain tensioner, the other style comes with the new tensioner and are as good as one-time use pieces.

[Charles.waite]

I used the Schwaben kit from ECS. The crank holder is beefy as hell...

[Frogdude]

I ordered the red one. The gold tool to remove the N205 valve didn’t fit quite right. I had to use a Dremel to make it work. The rest of the tools were fine.

[nbk9nbk]

Update on my timing china timing chain parts , my timing skiped again after about 2 years of running a China timing kit to test if the car was ok.. turns out it was.

So tore everything apart and bought audi parts to replace China kit and give review.. looks like the China chain was still good, along with all guides, and the tensioner must have failed.


A couple upgrade guide parts I'll post pics below with part numbers, they add inches more chain coverage....And audi chain vs China chain with 2 years use.

20210216_140633.jpg20210216_140623.jpg20210216_153010.jpg20210216_161048.jpg20210216_141053.jpg20210216_141354.jpg20210216_141430.jpg

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[nbk9nbk]

Pics20210216_153023.jpg

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[BlkS5]

I'm doing a radiator job and could use a little help. I got the bumper cover removed. Do I need to remove the crash absorber and headlights so I can take the AC condenser unit out of the way? the lines are right under the crash absorber and won't move.


Please advise.

Great post. I wish I had read this a few days ago but I did everything right luckily. I need to get a new balance pulley bolt to finish and put front in back on. I did loosen idler gear bolt and did not take off. Torque setting is 25nm and I did 30 but do you think I really need to r&r?