DIY: Motor work, Timing tensioner or anything with the motor and front end

[Theiceman]

I have no idea what you are talking about but the timing chain coloured links should be in the identified teeth on the sprockets. Make sure they didn’t jump when releasing the tensioner


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[Chillaxin]

Nope his pics look corect. That last pic is how it is supposed to look.
The dots line up kn the sprocket as he has it. That is not where the link goes. It goes further to the right exactly how he has it
Attachment 116671Attachment 116671

This is my engine. Once he has the three dots lined up on the idler. Then you put the link on the dot on the idler. He has it correct.

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

Untitled.jpg

[Chillaxin]

THE COLORED LINKS MUST LINE UP EXACTLY WITH ALL THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CRANK, EXHAUST, AND INTAKE SPROKETS. 1 TOOTH OFF IS NOT CORRECT. DO IT PROPERLY WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE.

[Kolbenringe]

Also what throws people off (and me) was the orientation of the colored links of the balancer chain. The reference links for us are not equidistant and that throws people off and threw me off. I made a screencap out of what Edgemotors did and all was golden. The double links can go between the two shafts or between the passenger side shaft and the crank and the orientation is very similar. I believe Edge put the double colored links on the long run. I did the same and the car runs identical to factory. I figure Edge is renowned enough that there shouldn't be a problem following them.

[Charles.waite]

The different chains have slightly different link patterns too. The main identifying ones are in the same place but the rest varied between my old and new chain so I just took lots of pictures, counted links and made sure everything was identical, link wise since the 8° stretch meant the gears might actually move positions ever so slightly.

[Theiceman]

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

Untitled.jpg

My apologies. If that is where the dot is yup he is off a rotation. That dot should be at about 1 o’clock and sitting on the coloured link.


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[EP9395]

I went ahead and went back thru the timing procedure again and got everything to line up perfectly. I rotated the engine over before putting on the lower cover to verify the alignment of the chains and sprockets, everything was perfect. I put on the lower cover and Balancer and rechecked the timing with the marks on the lower cover, everything perfect again. I get it fired up and it runs great but after a few seconds its throws a p0016 code, and the cam pahse adjustment reads way out of whack. The car feels perfect and doesn't have any other codes, if I clear it it really runs great. Any ideas besides tearing it down again? IMG_1517.jpgIMG_1518.jpgIMG_1522.jpgIMG_1531.jpgIMG_1532.jpg

[Kolbenringe]

Your main sprocket looks damaged in a way I've never seen before.

[Charles.waite]

Yea, what’s up with that huge gap on the bottom of the sprocket? That can’t be normal...

[EP9395]

Thats oil.

[Charles.waite]

Thats oil.

Oh wow.... HAHAHA!

well then carry on!

[Kolbenringe]

hah, regardless, I would pull the upper timing cover and then rotate the crank and see what everything looks like. If the chain didn't jump, it could also mean the main cog is not on right- a common issue.

Further causes of correlation issues can also be if the screen from the cam bridge blew out and is in an oil galley and/or deeper and caused damage.

[EP9395]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

[Theiceman]

If by main cog you mean crank sprocket it is indexed to the crank it's just not as easy to see as most

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[Kolbenringe]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...relation-check

[Charles.waite]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.

[Kolbenringe]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.

Obsession with reducing length and saving materials and weight to the point they often went too far.

[EP9395]

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...relation-check

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

[Kolbenringe]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

I really think you need to pull the upper timing chain cover off, pull the plug for cylinder number 1 out, put a dial indicator in, and then rotate the engine to verify correlation. You might be off a tooth and not even know it.

[mtroxel]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

That -20.02° reading is the kind of thing you’d see if the chain went slack. Any drama when you changed the tensioner?

[Snakeman]

IMG_0832.jpg bad tensioner a6 2.0t 2014


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[Snakeman]

IMG_0828.jpgIMG_0830.JPGIMG_0831.jpg maybe I’m lucky,


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[Snakeman]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off


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[mtroxel]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

[Snakeman]

IMG_0835.jpgIMG_0834.JPG


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[Snakeman]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

Ok, thanks


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[Tjtubbs]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

[Theiceman]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

not at all. the 3 is a v6

[ericA6]

I plan on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit

Crankshaft Seal

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit

Water Pump Kit

Timin Service Tool Set

G13 Coolant

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?

[Theiceman]

I plan on working on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit

Crankshaft Seal

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit

Water Pump Kit

Timin Service Tool Set

G13 Coolant

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?

Timing cover already has crank seal pressed in it


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[ericA6]

Timing cover already has crank seal pressed in it


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I believe the timing kit comes with the lower cover included in it, but the part listing did not list the crank seal. If it comes pressed in then I lost $4.60, no big deal.
I will look into the guide rail bolts, I did not notice they were not included in the kit.... good catch!

[Theiceman]

Yeah mine were completely worn out on the pivoting side. You could see the coating gone. My b8.5 used two different sizes and I'm sure yours will be the same

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[mtroxel]

That's a pretty good price on that kit. I'm not sure you need the upper cover but for that price...whatever.

[Kolbenringe]

I plan on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit

Crankshaft Seal

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit

Water Pump Kit

Timin Service Tool Set

G13 Coolant

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?

You don't need to replace the upper cover. Only the cover to head seal. It's definitely an unnecessary expense and the stickers that ID the engine on the cover are more useful than you think. Personally, I don't like the FCP set. It doesn't have the balancer chain, tensioner, and guides. While you're in there, might as well do everything because that chain also stretches.

As for the pump tensioner- some of them come with a j-pin preinstalled, some don't. I would use it so you don't mess the tensioner up, the spring, or the block. Some people use drill bits, but they can be fiddly to remove. I bought a couple extra, they were under a Euro. If in doubt, buy one. It's nice to get the last step of the job in plain and simple without drama.

If you buy a REAL factory Audi timing cover (recommended), the seal is already in place. You would also then need the seal driver, which I have and the installation sucks and IMO, risks dislodging that timing gear. They use this tool at Audi to replace the front seal for Stage 1 Oil Consumption work and I suspect this has been the reason why people have found damaged gears, in addition to the use of impact wrenches for removal and installation of the donut. Furthermore, I recommend using the composite retaining donuts and lubing them on the bolt side so one can carefully tighten the bolt to first get enough clamping pressure on the gear before the assembly turns.

For the waterpump, don't change the belt unless you have the timing case open. There is a high chance of breaking the bolt. Make sure you have extras.

[ericA6]

You don't need to replace the upper cover. Only the cover to head seal. It's definitely an unnecessary expense and the stickers that ID the engine on the cover are more useful than you think. Personally, I don't like the FCP set. It doesn't have the balancer chain, tensioner, and guides. While you're in there, might as well do everything because that chain also stretches.

As for the pump tensioner- some of them come with a j-pin preinstalled, some don't. I would use it so you don't mess the tensioner up, the spring, or the block. Some people use drill bits, but they can be fiddly to remove. I bought a couple extra, they were under a Euro. If in doubt, buy one. It's nice to get the last step of the job in plain and simple without drama.

If you buy a REAL factory Audi timing cover (recommended), the seal is already in place. You would also then need the seal driver, which I have and the installation sucks and IMO, risks dislodging that timing gear. They use this tool at Audi to replace the front seal for Stage 1 Oil Consumption work and I suspect this has been the reason why people have found damaged gears, in addition to the use of impact wrenches for removal and installation of the donut. Furthermore, I recommend using the composite retaining donuts and lubing them on the bolt side so one can carefully tighten the bolt to first get enough clamping pressure on the gear before the assembly turns.

For the waterpump, don't change the belt unless you have the timing case open. There is a high chance of breaking the bolt. Make sure you have extras.

The upper cover comes with the timing kit, I was thinking of reusing my old one and simply replacing the seal as you stated.

I don’t remember seeing a timing kit that includes the balancer chain, tensioner and guides, I’ll look back to see if I’m wrong.

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool. Do you have a link for this?

As for the water pump, the kit comes with all necessary hardware, including that bolt.

Thank you kind sir!


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[mtroxel]

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The oil chain tensioner is a no brainer. It's not very complicated, just a big springy paper clip. If I recall correctly, you just pull it back by hand and put the chain under it.

The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool.

The cover in your kit already has the seal in it. You can see it in the pic. And no one talks about a seal driver because everyone's cover comes with the seal installed.

[ericA6]

The oil chain tensioner is a no brainer. It's not very complicated, just a big springy paper clip. If I recall correctly, you just pull it back by hand and put the chain under it.



The cover in your kit already has the seal in it. You can see it in the pic. And no one talks about a seal driver because everyone's cover comes with the seal installed.

That’s great to know! Any additional comments on the balancer chain? Do those components needs to be changed as well?


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[mtroxel]

That’s great to know! Any additional comments on the balancer chain? Do those components needs to be changed as well?

I didn't change mine. The timing chain is under far greater stress. Every time a valve opens and shuts, the valve springs tug the chain one way, then the other. This is why they stretch, and those accel/decel forces end up putting wear on the guides also. You don't have nearly the forces on the balance chain.

[Kolbenringe]

The upper cover comes with the timing kit, I was thinking of reusing my old one and simply replacing the seal as you stated.

I don’t remember seeing a timing kit that includes the balancer chain, tensioner and guides, I’ll look back to see if I’m wrong.

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool. Do you have a link for this?

As for the water pump, the kit comes with all necessary hardware, including that bolt.

Thank you kind sir!


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Some people reuse covers. They definitely get a bit tweaked, but if you have some room, you can hammer a spackel knife in there, but it's still tough. If you do it, make sure the mating surfaces are 100% clean, down to bare metal, then also run a metal ruler over the sealing flange to ID where there's slight deformation. The bigger problem is when they get tweaked at the bend.

The locking pin, like I said, usually comes with the new tensioner. If not sure, call the supplier, but obviously if the tensioner has one in place, you don't need to buy one. People typically buy them to remove tensioners. You stick it in so the spring doesn't shoot open as you'll pulling the rail out.

The oil seal installer is T10354. I don't recommend it. I used it on one cover, it sucks and I totally see how this step for the stage 1 work would result in damaged timing gears on occasion, or in my case, a crooked seal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Cra...-/322511152559

I saw the water pump link, but it doesn't change what I said: I would recommend doing the water pump maybe even before the timing set is started because if you break the old bolt or the new one, at least it's not miserable to remove when the timing area is opened and you can access the balancer. Usually the bolts break with enough to still stick out. It's just another shitty design from Audi and most people don't touch the belt.

As far as the kit price goes, I find it way too expensive for being incomplete. It doesn't even include a main timing sprocket like many kits of OE quality. I wanted to get away with just changing my timing chain, but Humble Mechanic convinced me to do everything while I was there. I used a mostly Borsehung kit and it was very obvious most parts were identical to the Audi parts, even down to the materials and molding marks and identifiers. My new oil pump tensioner had some issue, so I got a Valeo and that was also pretty identical to the take off and to the Audi. I used a factory Audi tensioner, though in case I ever needed Audi to give me some partial payment on work, at least they'd see an OE tensioner through the window. The kit also had the updated chain.

[Theiceman]

Some people reuse covers. They definitely get a bit tweaked, but if you have some room, you can hammer a spackel knife in there, but it's still tough. If you do it, make sure the mating surfaces are 100% clean, down to bare metal, then also run a metal ruler over the sealing flange to ID where there's slight deformation. The bigger problem is when they get tweaked at the bend.

The locking pin, like I said, usually comes with the new tensioner. If not sure, call the supplier, but obviously if the tensioner has one in place, you don't need to buy one. People typically buy them to remove tensioners. You stick it in so the spring doesn't shoot open as you'll pulling the rail out.

The oil seal installer is T10354. I don't recommend it. I used it on one cover, it sucks and I totally see how this step for the stage 1 work would result in damaged timing gears on occasion, or in my case, a crooked seal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Cra...-/322511152559

I saw the water pump link, but it doesn't change what I said: I would recommend doing the water pump maybe even before the timing set is started because if you break the old bolt or the new one, at least it's not miserable to remove when the timing area is opened and you can access the balancer. Usually the bolts break with enough to still stick out. It's just another shitty design from Audi and most people don't touch the belt.

As far as the kit price goes, I find it way too expensive for being incomplete. It doesn't even include a main timing sprocket like many kits of OE quality. I wanted to get away with just changing my timing chain, but Humble Mechanic convinced me to do everything while I was there. I used a mostly Borsehung kit and it was very obvious most parts were identical to the Audi parts, even down to the materials and molding marks and identifiers. My new oil pump tensioner had some issue, so I got a Valeo and that was also pretty identical to the take off and to the Audi. I used a factory Audi tensioner, though in case I ever needed Audi to give me some partial payment on work, at least they'd see an OE tensioner through the window. The kit also had the updated chain.

I changed my ballencer chains guides and tensioner. I was doing a complete rebuild though so this is expected.
Although balance shaft failure is not uncommon in these engines,it is not due to chains tensioner or guides.
The choice is yours, I plan on keeping my car for quite a while

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