DIY: Motor work, Timing tensioner or anything with the motor and front end

[EP9395]

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[Chillaxin]

EP9395, The balance shafts can be rotated without damaging anything. From the last picture, your right side (driver side) balance shaft sprocket is about 180 degrees from where it should be. There is a little dot on the front of the sprocket, half way into a tooth, that should line up with the black link in the chain. Marks on the other sprockets look good. The balance shaft chain has equal links between all the black marks. Just line one up to the crank mark, then align the passenger side sprocket, and finally the driver side. Then start putting in your top and right guides, with the bottom left tensioner guide for last, then install tensioner.

[EP9395]

EP9395, The balance shafts can be rotated without damaging anything. From the last picture, your right side (driver side) balance shaft sprocket is about 180 degrees from where it should be. There is a little dot on the front of the sprocket, half way into a tooth, that should line up with the black link in the chain. Marks on the other sprockets look good. The balance shaft chain has equal links between all the black marks. Just line one up to the crank mark, then align the passenger side sprocket, and finally the driver side. Then start putting in your top and right guides, with the bottom left tensioner guide for last, then install tensioner.

Ok, I set the tooth on the crank, then held everything still and rotated the just forget side balance shaft counter clockwise a few rotations and now I have the little dots on the inner sprocket sandwiched and the mark is at about 2 o clock and matches the the mark on the chain. I was just hesitant because nothing moved much when I took it apart I was just hoping to drape the new chain over and it would all line up.

[Theiceman]

Nope his pics look corect. That last pic is how it is supposed to look.
The dots line up kn the sprocket as he has it. That is not where the link goes. It goes further to the right exactly how he has it
IMG_8320.jpgIMG_8320.jpg

This is my engine. Once he has the three dots lined up on the idler. Then you put the link on the dot on the idler. He has it correct.

[Chillaxin]

Nope his pics look corect. That last pic is how it is supposed to look.
The dots line up kn the sprocket as he has it. That is not where the link goes. It goes further to the right exactly how he has it
IMG_8320.jpgIMG_8320.jpg

This is my engine. Once he has the three dots lined up on the idler. Then you put the link on the dot on the idler. He has it correct.

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

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[Theiceman]

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

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My apologies. If that is where the dot is yup he is off a rotation. That dot should be at about 1 o’clock and sitting on the coloured link.


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[EP9395]

edit

[Chillaxin]

THE COLORED LINKS MUST LINE UP EXACTLY WITH ALL THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CRANK, EXHAUST, AND INTAKE SPROKETS. 1 TOOTH OFF IS NOT CORRECT. DO IT PROPERLY WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE.

[Theiceman]

I have no idea what you are talking about but the timing chain coloured links should be in the identified teeth on the sprockets. Make sure they didn’t jump when releasing the tensioner


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[Kolbenringe]

Also what throws people off (and me) was the orientation of the colored links of the balancer chain. The reference links for us are not equidistant and that throws people off and threw me off. I made a screencap out of what Edgemotors did and all was golden. The double links can go between the two shafts or between the passenger side shaft and the crank and the orientation is very similar. I believe Edge put the double colored links on the long run. I did the same and the car runs identical to factory. I figure Edge is renowned enough that there shouldn't be a problem following them.

[Charles.waite]

The different chains have slightly different link patterns too. The main identifying ones are in the same place but the rest varied between my old and new chain so I just took lots of pictures, counted links and made sure everything was identical, link wise since the 8° stretch meant the gears might actually move positions ever so slightly.

[EP9395]

I went ahead and went back thru the timing procedure again and got everything to line up perfectly. I rotated the engine over before putting on the lower cover to verify the alignment of the chains and sprockets, everything was perfect. I put on the lower cover and Balancer and rechecked the timing with the marks on the lower cover, everything perfect again. I get it fired up and it runs great but after a few seconds its throws a p0016 code, and the cam pahse adjustment reads way out of whack. The car feels perfect and doesn't have any other codes, if I clear it it really runs great. Any ideas besides tearing it down again? IMG_1517.jpgIMG_1518.jpgIMG_1522.jpgIMG_1531.jpgIMG_1532.jpg

[Kolbenringe]

Your main sprocket looks damaged in a way I've never seen before.

[Charles.waite]

Yea, what’s up with that huge gap on the bottom of the sprocket? That can’t be normal...

[EP9395]

Thats oil.

[Charles.waite]

Thats oil.

Oh wow.... HAHAHA!

well then carry on!

[Kolbenringe]

hah, regardless, I would pull the upper timing cover and then rotate the crank and see what everything looks like. If the chain didn't jump, it could also mean the main cog is not on right- a common issue.

Further causes of correlation issues can also be if the screen from the cam bridge blew out and is in an oil galley and/or deeper and caused damage.

[EP9395]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

[Kolbenringe]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...relation-check

[Theiceman]

If by main cog you mean crank sprocket it is indexed to the crank it's just not as easy to see as most

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[Charles.waite]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.

[Kolbenringe]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.

Obsession with reducing length and saving materials and weight to the point they often went too far.

[EP9395]

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...relation-check

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

[Kolbenringe]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

I really think you need to pull the upper timing chain cover off, pull the plug for cylinder number 1 out, put a dial indicator in, and then rotate the engine to verify correlation. You might be off a tooth and not even know it.

[mtroxel]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

That -20.02° reading is the kind of thing you’d see if the chain went slack. Any drama when you changed the tensioner?

[Snakeman]

IMG_0832.jpg bad tensioner a6 2.0t 2014


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[Snakeman]

IMG_0828.jpgIMG_0830.JPGIMG_0831.jpg maybe I’m lucky,


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[Snakeman]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off


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[mtroxel]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

[Snakeman]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

Ok, thanks


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[Snakeman]

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[Tjtubbs]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

[Theiceman]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

not at all. the 3 is a v6

[Theiceman]

Yeah mine were completely worn out on the pivoting side. You could see the coating gone. My b8.5 used two different sizes and I'm sure yours will be the same

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[mtroxel]

That's a pretty good price on that kit. I'm not sure you need the upper cover but for that price...whatever.

[Charles.waite]

I also did all the chains and guides. Given how much work it was to access the timing chains in the first place, I felt that not replacing everything and saving maybe $300 was going to be a false economy down the line since this car is going to be ours for at least 3-4 more years and after that it’s likely going to my parents so I don’t want to deal with this again.

I used a metal spackle knife to get the cover off and didn’t damage it at all, however I had purchased a brand new cover “just in case” and after seeing the revised oil guides on the new cover I installed the new one. There was much better oil drip routing than the original, the crank sprocket will get much much better oiling with the new cover. I tossed the old one in the trash, though realistically I could have cleaned it up and resold it on eBay to recoup some costs. Doing my oil change the other day, I did see a bit of oil seepage from the bottom sealing edge I believe so it’s likely I might have to go back in and reseal the pan. So a tip I would add is drain the oil before you reseal the cover, with the oil level that close to the lip it’s hard to get a clean surface for the rtv so seal to fully.

[ericA6]

So I decided to not get the FCP Euro kit. I went with the ECS Ultimate Timing Kit. I also had to purchase Lower Timing Chain Cover and the Crank Pully Bolt as the ECS kit did not include them. I should receive all parts early next week. Now I have to find the time to get it all changed out.

[Kolbenringe]

You also should replace the upper timing cover seal. If it hasn't been on long, then maybe you can get away without replacing, but after a while, they are cooked on. You also need a good sealant, like Reinzosil or something from Dirko. It looks like the kit doesn't include that. Whatever sealant you use, don't use too much, make sure the bead is pretty thin, pay close attention to the bend and putting a bead across it. You also need to put on two smears of sealant at the upper cover where the head meets the cam cover.

I stress again that the bead on the lower cover should not be thick.

[ericA6]

I did order the upper timing chain cover as well along with the vacuum pump seal and another high pressure fuel pump o-ring. I ordered this sealant for the valve cover and lower timing chain cover. Thanks for the expert tips! All this is great information to have before going into this! Everyone will definitely continue to benefit from this thread!

[Snakeman]

Help! By mistake I rotated oil pump after removing chain from crank sprocket, is position of oil pump important???


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