DIY: Motor work, Timing tensioner or anything with the motor and front end

[blgilles]

Thanks @LionKing!

[blgilles]

Woh! So I just noticed the following, from here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Failure-Thread

Audi will cover effected vehicles of the time tensioner issue, as long as those vehicles have less than 100k miles and fewer than 10 years in operation, when the repairs were made.

See below for complete lists:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...on-settlement/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml

So this makes me wonder if I should still do this myself, or if it will indeed be covered by Audi. My car has 98k miles on it, and just under 10 years - so I would have to act fast to still be covered.

Just wanted to let everyone here know. Also, it mentioned that if you had the repairs done by an independent shop, they will cover the repairs to an extent.

So it's probably prudent to dig up your receipts, whether it was done at an independent shop, or perhaps even receipt for parts, if you did it yourself.

Speaking of DIY, I can't quite tell from the summary, whether your parts would be covered if you did the repair yourself. I am thinking they actually would.

Thoughts?

EDITS: Some clarifications, above

[Nano909]

Woh! So I just noticed the following, from here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Failure-Thread

Audi will cover effected vehicles of the time tensioner issue, as long as those vehicles have less than 100k miles and fewer than 10 years in operation, when the repairs were made.

See below for complete lists:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...on-settlement/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml

So this makes me wonder if I should still do this myself, or if it will indeed be covered by Audi. My car has 98k miles on it, and just under 10 years - so I would have to act fast to still be covered.

Just wanted to let everyone here know. Also, it mentioned that if you had the repairs done by an independent shop, they will cover the repairs to an extent.

So it's probably prudent to dig up your receipts, whether it was done at an independent shop, or perhaps even receipt for parts, if you did it yourself.

Speaking of DIY, I can't quite tell from the summary, whether your parts would be covered if you did the repair yourself. I am thinking they actually would.

Thoughts?

EDITS: Some clarifications, above

I hope they hurry up with finalizing that lawsuit. I'm almost at 90k.

[blgilles]

Heh. Tell me about it. I'm at 98,999 currently. And I think mine is making the tell-tale startup sound which indicates failure is imminent. (Hence why I was on this thread in the first place - I am/was planning on replacing it myself - along with the likely-already-damaged timing chain.)

[blgilles]

So some (potentially silly) questions:

1. Do you have to drain the oil before starting this job? (My understanding is that you don't... that it hangs out in the oil pan, sufficiently low.)
2. Assuming you didn't drain the oil, do you change the oil (shortly) after the job?

Thanks, all!

[Justin B8]

So some (potentially silly) questions:

1. Do you have to drain the oil before starting this job? (My understanding is that you don't... that it hangs out in the oil pan, sufficiently low.)
2. Assuming you didn't drain the oil, do you change the oil (shortly) after the job?

Thanks, all!

1. No

2. Yes, change oil when you are done. I let mine drain overnight, then refilled. I pulled the plugs, cranked it for 30 secs or so to prime the oil system, gapped and reinstalled new plugs and then changed the filter.

[blgilles]

Sweet, thanks again! And I like your procedure for the filter. To get any/gunk into it, and -then- change it.

[blgilles]

Just ordered everything.

[blgilles]

Quick update: Order arrived but was missing some stuff, so having to wait to start the project.

Specifically it arrived without the timing chain tool kit (here) and the Upper Timing Cover Gasket (here).

And this 'Borsehung' (here) part was shipped instead of the genuine VW/Audi part, here.

I don't know anything about Borsehung's quality (they could be great, they could be terrible, or somewhere in-between; I have no idea), so I'm having it exchanged.

And the last bit is I received two chains, one of which was properly labeled, and is definitely the correct balance-shaft timing chain (verified by P/N and with online pictures). The other one had had it's bag-labeling completely warn off (not sure how/why), and did not look at all like what is supposed to be included in the Ultimate Timing Chain service kit. It did have 'PU2S 171001' on one of the links, but that didn't turn up anything on Google. Needless to say, I don't want to get the whole front-end of the car, timing cover, rails, etc. out, just to realize that I have the wrong chain - so ECS is swapping this for me - so that I can be sure I have the right part.

So probably another week or so for the (replacement/correct) parts/tools to arrive...

[blgilles]

Received all the parts and now I’m mid-way through. Hoping to finish on Monday.

Difficulties:
1. Cam bridge. But with Justin’s advice it only took probably 15 minutes total to get it on. Was psyched about that.
2. The coolant hose that runs between the upper and lower timing covers was ‘glued’ to the metal tube it attaches to (from age/heat/pressure). So it took probably an hour and a half to get it off (prying underneath the tube to break the rubber which had turned into glue, while trying to not damage the hose).

Otherwise it has gone pretty smoothly so far. All cam and balance timing components replaced and both upper and lower timing covers are back on, as well as the lock carrier, radiator, ac compressor coil, intercooler and impact absorber.



I’m glad I did this timing work. There are impact marks on the old lower timing cover from the chain hitting it/scraping against it. This of course should absolutely never happen. It seems the tensioner was not doing its job (wasn’t giving enough tension) so the chain was loose enough to slap the oil gullies on the timing cover. From the looks of it, the chain has probably been slapping the gullies on this timing cover for years. There’s a sound on startup that I was worried about (which I previously was afraid was exactly this, and is one of the reasons I decided to replace the timing components) and it seems the sound is indeed very likely the chain hitting the gullies of the lower timing cover. I’ll know for sure if it’s gone after this work.

First thing Monday will be filling coolant (using vacuum method), oil/filter change, and then remaining re-assembly of the bumper/sensors/horns/etc. And then testing it all out.

Since removing the radiator bleeds (some) transmission fluid, I’m going to go ahead and change that (as I think it’s never been changed) once everything is back together and tested, along with replacing the ATF filter.

[blgilles]

Finished yesterday (August 7, 2018). Started up with zero warnings/lights/etc.

I have to say that starting a car after timing work is probably one of the most nerve-racking things ever. Despite checking the marks (and photographing them, for later review and re-checking) probably 200 hundred times, it still scares the hell out of me.

Anyways, everything was spot on (as I knew it would be, and had checked in the photos, more times than I probably should have) and it runs a bit smoother than it did before. I'll be measuring the cam phase again (-3.05 degrees with old components) now that the new chain/tensioner/rails/etc. are in, and posting them in the 'Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation' thread.

Cheers, all!

[blgilles]

So I posted this in the timing chain stretch/cam phaser adaptation thread, but figured it would be useful here as well, so here're my additional notes from having successfully followed this guide.

• My little guide to myself is HERE.
• And I formatted Allowencer's guide in Google docs to make it print a little easier, and that's HERE

I actually really enjoyed this project! Best of luck to anyone else taking it on!

And thanks again, Allowencer!

[Charles.waite]

Tackling this tomorrow. This guide is excellent, thanks for taking the time!

[homegrowna4]

Followed this guide to do my timing chains and it was very helpful. However I'm running into some issues. Got everything timed perfectly but when I go to verify timing I rotate the engine clockwise for what feels like 100 rotations finally got cyl 1 to TDC but my cam timing is off by one tooth. I've reset it multiple times and it's still off by one. Could it be that I need to keep going around until it lines up or is this because of vvt or some other issue?

[blgilles]

So one cam is off by 1 tooth, and the other isn't? If that's the case then you're definitely off time by one tooth.

And this is after replacement? You shouldn't have to rotate it after replacement, you should be able to just have the marks right where you put them.

[blgilles]

Oh, and on VVT, that's after the intake cam sprocket, between it and the actually intake cam shaft - so it can't mess with the chain/sprocket positioning, which is/should be fixed.

Can you post pictures/videos of what you're seeing?

[homegrowna4]

So one cam is off by 1 tooth, and the other isn't? If that's the case then you're definitely off time by one tooth.

And this is after replacement? You shouldn't have to rotate it after replacement, you should be able to just have the marks right where you put them.

The marks were on until I rotated it. Now both cams and the crank are all off by one tooth. Maybe thats my problem I shouldnt rotate it. I'll add some pictures

[homegrowna4]

IMG_4942.jpg
IMG_4945.JPG
IMG_4947.JPGIMG_4949.JPG


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[blgilles]

Cool. Some I'm super-hesitant to ever say that timing is OK w/out the marks being lined up. But it sounds to me that yes, your timing is lined up, and everything is just rotated. If everything is off by the same, in the same direction, I think that means you're actually perfectly in time. The chain of course will rotate around as the engine rotates, and the marks will only line up only so often (once in 30 rotations of the crank, I think).

[blgilles]

IMG_4942.jpg
IMG_4945.JPG
IMG_4947.JPGIMG_4949.JPG


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So are the two lower photos before you rotated the engine? And the two upper are after rotation?

I'm thinking that's the case. Anyways, I can't quite make out the timing mark on the intake cam sprocket on the first photo. Do you have another one perhaps? I'll keep trying...

[homegrowna4]

Cool. Some I'm super-hesitant to ever say that timing is OK w/out the marks being lined up. But it sounds to me that yes, your timing is lined up, and everything is just rotated. If everything is off by the same, in the same direction, I think that means you're actually perfectly in time. The chain of course will rotate around as the engine rotates, and the marks will only line up only so often (once in 30 rotations of the crank, I think).

Thats kind of what I was thinking that since it was all consistently off the same I was ok. This engine is a lot harder to time than my old 1.8T though

[homegrowna4]

So are the two lower photos before you rotated the engine? And the two upper are after rotation?

I'm thinking that's the case. Anyways, I can't quite make out the timing mark on the intake cam sprocket on the first photo. Do you have another one perhaps? I'll keep trying...

They're both after rotation but the crank chain is off on the last two

[blgilles]

Thats kind of what I was thinking that since it was all consistently off the same I was ok. This engine is a lot harder to time than my old 1.8T though

Yes, exactly. Funnily enough this motor is the first timing job I did. I kind of kicked myself that I didn't do my previous 1.8t belt jobs, as apparently they were way easier. Back then I almost did them, but always bailed and just had a shop do them. Wish I would have.

[homegrowna4]

IMG_4943.JPG


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[blgilles]

Thanks. Inspecting now to be sure.

[blgilles]

OK, so I combined the two images that I'm pretty sure go together into one image, just to make 100% I'm not missing something. Is the combination above what it currently looks like?

If this is indeed how it looks (i.e. if I'm understanding correctly), then I think the timing is spot-on.

The 'why' is imagine just sliding the colored link 1 link clockwise on all 3 sprockets. Everything lines up. If sliding all of them the same didn't line stuff up, then you'd be out of time.

[homegrowna4]

Thanks. Inspecting now to be sure.

Thanks for your help. Guess I'm going to seal this thing up and start it up after work

[blgilles]

Thanks for your help. Guess I'm going to seal this thing up and start it up after work

Sounds good. So my wife actually had to force me to start mine. I was like 'well, it's not broken, yet, as long as I don't start it'. Ha.

[homegrowna4]

OK, so I combined the two images that I'm pretty sure go together into one image, just to make 100% I'm not missing something. Is the combination above what it currently looks like?

If this is indeed how it looks (i.e. if I'm understanding correctly), then I think the timing is spot-on.

The 'why' is imagine just sliding the colored link 1 link clockwise on all 3 sprockets. Everything lines up. If sliding all of them the same didn't line stuff up, then you'd be out of time.

Yes that is currently how it sits. Thats what I was thinking just wanted to verify with the experts

[blgilles]

Perfect

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I’m no expert... ;-). But I have done the job, once.

[Charles.waite]

Frankly, 1.8t timing jobs are absolute cake compared to this job.

I still wouldn’t call this job that hard, more like tedious and nerve wracking since the timing marks and lining things up, as we’ve all discovered, isn’t really an exact science thanks to Audi not including clear timing marks anywhere on the block.

Otherwise all the parts are pretty readily accessible. The most difficult part, imo, is getting the cam bridge back on.

[blgilles]

Agreed on all counts.

[Charles.waite]

Perfect

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I’m no expert... ;-). But I have done the job, once.

I’ll echo this. I’m no expert, only done this once (and hopefully never again), but those marks look just fine to me. Remember the chain is a fixed length (well, until it starts stretching that is) and the marks are merely helpers. You could do what I did and not bother lining up the chain marks from the get go, simply setting the engine to TDC and replacing the chain while keeping the amount of links between the elements the same, and you’ll be in time. The links can stretch, thus making the distance between cam teeth and crank change, but unless you skip teeth then the amount of teeth will never change. That’s why i did my job the way I did. I simply used the chain marks as reference points and counted links between the various marks.

The part that made things complicated were I didn’t see the mark on the crank (and frankly, I forgot to consider that) before I goofed when loosening the tensioner and the chain slipped because I hadn’t installed the cam locks. Luckily I’d already taken copious pictures so I could reset everything but my crank being in time was hard to confirm until I realized I could reference the marks on the balance shaft chains in the pictures to insure I was set correctly.

And that’s actually leads me to my only complaint about this diy. There’s too much rambling and it goes on a couple tangents, breaking up the meat of the DIY. Makes it a bit tricky to follow due to how all the amazing info is structured.

[homegrowna4]

I’ll echo this. I’m no expert, only done this once (and hopefully never again), but those marks look just fine to me. Remember the chain is a fixed length (well, until it starts stretching that is) and the marks are merely helpers. You could do what I did and not bother lining up the chain marks from the get go, simply setting the engine to TDC and replacing the chain while keeping the amount of links between the elements the same, and you’ll be in time. The links can stretch, thus making the distance between cam teeth and crank change, but unless you skip teeth then the amount of teeth will never change. That’s why i did my job the way I did. I simply used the chain marks as reference points and counted links between the various marks.

The part that made things complicated were I didn’t see the mark on the crank (and frankly, I forgot to consider that) before I goofed when loosening the tensioner and the chain slipped because I hadn’t installed the cam locks. Luckily I’d already taken copious pictures so I could reset everything but my crank being in time was hard to confirm until I realized I could reference the marks on the balance shaft chains in the pictures to insure I was set correctly.

And that’s actually leads me to my only complaint about this diy. There’s too much rambling and it goes on a couple tangents, breaking up the meat of the DIY. Makes it a bit tricky to follow due to how all the amazing info is structured.

I guess that is a good point. As long as there is the correct number of links between marks then all should be good. Kind of like doing the vvt tensioner on the 1.8t.

So when installing the cam bridge I will need to align the cams and it should just slide on?


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[blgilles]

Here is the technique I used to get the Cam Bridge back on, from Justin B8:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13180812

Bridge installed; I cleaned the bores with acetone and then a light smear of oil. Square the bridge onto the cam noses, and then using a pry bar between the exhaust gear at 3:00 (cover with a rag) and the inside left upper housing, gently wiggle the cam gear to the outside and push it on.

[blgilles]

Oh except I skipped using acetone; just used clean/new engine oil.

[homegrowna4]

Got the car running last night, but the problem I was having before persists. Very rough idle and I'm getting timing/camshaft related engine codes. Took the top cam cover off and verified timing again with the marks on the harmonic balancer. Here are the codes I'm getting

P0300 random/multiple misfire
P0011 Camshaft A position timing-over advanced
P001C A camshaft profile control-circuit high
P0010 Camshaft A position actuator A control-circuit open
P0343 Camshaft position sensor A-circuit high input

[Charles.waite]

The open circuit codes make me think you forgot to plug in something.

[blgilles]

Exactly. So to me this seems the actuator for variable valve timing isn’t working. The open circuit code makes me thing it’s not plugged in, the cable is severed, or it’s internally damaged (say open-circuit in the actuator itself).

Have you checked the actuator electrical connection? It’s on the front, right of the motor (when looking at the car from the front).

EDIT: that guy, top middle of this photo.

EDIT again, here's a better view:

[Charles.waite]

Yea and if it’s non-functional that could be triggering the over-advanced code too.

Full disclosure, I neglected to connect the drivers side crash sensor on the bumper (derp) and I have an open circuit code for that which is triggering airbag warnings and an ebrake fault. Hopefully this weekend I can get that sorted and the wife can stop complaining about the beeping and warning lights.