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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Broke down last night and need dire help. Misfire on all cylinders. Low oil light.

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    Ill start off with whats going on:

    Yellow Low oil level light (not low oil pressure), Random multiple misfires on all cylinders (car shakes like all hell), car shuts off after 30 sec or so with only a flashing misfire CEL.
    I havent run logs yet.

    Full story:

    a week ago or so, i was getting symptoms where whenever i try to crank the engine, it takes a little longer and when it catches it misfired on cyl 3 and 4 until i touched the gas pedal. After which, it ran smooth and perfect.
    A few days ago i was getting what seemed like fuel cuts when i was WOT at around 6k rpm and just stuttered and backfired like crazy, it was only randomly though.
    yesterday i drove aprox 150 miles. The first 45 miles or so the car ran just fine, had some WOT stutter once. Left where i was and drove another 40 or so miles, still ran the same, but got a low oil level light.
    Stopped and checked the oil. It was slightly low so i topped it off. Light stayed on. Drove another little bit and light stayed on and oil level stayed the same.
    At that time i was thinking the sensor might have gone bad. Stopped again, oil is good.
    Drove another 5 miles and i got to a walmart and as soon as i parked, it sounded like it was running like a WRX. No CEL. Checked oil, still the same. Coolant was also the same. Went in and came back out. Started it and let it idle for a bit, ran a little rough then stopped and ran good again.
    Started driving home (another 45 miles or so), and 4 miles away from my house, it started shaking like all hell and lost all power and shut off. Tried to start it again and it didnt want to start at all. Held down the gas pedal to un-flood it and it started again and ran like shit, had no power, and shut off again after 20 sec or so. Was able to coast to a parking lot and thats where its sitting now.
    Only codes are Random multiple misfires and Misfires on cyl 1,2,3,4.

    Engine has roughly 2000 miles on a bottom end rebuild. On 3rd oil change. coil packs are pretty new and the newest 2.0 coils. Spark plugs also have roughly 2k miles on them. I have a custom setup Deatchwerks DW35V so i checked the fuel pump thinking it might have fallen into the tank or something. Fuel pump looks good and everything is connected. When it was parked, the fuel pump didnt sound like it was priming after the rough starts. Went back this morning and the pump primed, it started, and still ran like shit.

    checked all vacuum lines and there are no leaks. No cracked hoses or connectors in PCV line. Head is a rebuilt AEB head.

    Im running a GTX2867r elim, 1000cc bosch injectors, AEB intake mani, Snow Performance WMI (started happening before WMI was installed), 3" brand new billet MAF. Tune is Motoza and im on my 5th or so revision, fueling was in good order on the last logs via motoza software. Full 3" straight pipe. IE 19mm wrist rods, coated calico main bearings. OEM pistons with new rings.

    would running logs on VCDS at idle be able to tell me anything? I have never run logs thru vcds so i really dont even know how to go about it.

    is there a relay that controls the fuel level sensor and fuel pump possibly? Battery was charging at 13.5 with a/c running. Vacuum was at about -19HG
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Possibly a large leak between the MAF sensor and throttle body. Try unplugging the MAF sensor and see if it makes a difference.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings customa4's Avatar
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    Have you tried unplugging the MAF to see if the condition changed at all?

    Welp, OG beat me to that...

    BTW, I'm local and have a tow strap if you need help getting the car home.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by customa4 View Post
    Have you tried unplugging the MAF to see if the condition changed at all?

    Welp, OG beat me to that...

    BTW, I'm local and have a tow strap if you need help getting the car home.
    unplugged the MAF as well, condition actually got worse. Idled at like 500 rpm and traction light came on.

    And i might take you up on that, all depends on if my friends dad has his car trailer or if he loaned it out to someone. Luckily i have my allroad as a DD so im not completely SOL. Thank you though. How far from torrington?

    I also heard a feint clinking around the turbo side and some smoke. Didnt run/didnt run it long enough to find where smoke was coming from. Could just be from the misfires. (i have open valve cover breather dump due to no SAI and Evap). Took off the whole intake setup and turbo fans are smooth and it spins evenly and freely.

    Im really leaning towards something with the fueling system. The car doesnt even sound like its getting any fuel unless i hold down the gas pedal while starting it.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings customa4's Avatar
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    I'm about 30 minutes away. Also have a Ross-Tech cable if it would be of any assistance.
    K&N-Milltek HFC-Magnaflow Catback-APR snub mount-ER Sport FMIC-Forge TIP-Forge DV-Podi-034 Motor Mounts-034 Rear Sway/End Links-STaSIS Street Sport Coils-Bentley Manual

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    If you can get it to start and idle you can check your fuel trims to see if the ECM is adding fuel like crazy to keep it running.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings
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    You said coils were pretty new, but have you got some spares you know work to try out?
    Also, hows your coil pack harness look, and in particular the ground point on the valve cover?

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by customa4 View Post
    I'm about 30 minutes away. Also have a Ross-Tech cable if it would be of any assistance.
    I have one as well but my buddy in bristol is borrowing it. Im heading to the movies in a bit so ill pick it up from him later. I've just never actually used it to run logs, ive always run logs thru motoza just for tuning purposes. I have a p3 that tells me most things i need to know in the day to day driving. Ill probably tow the car tomorrow if i no one has any ideas by then.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozMatt View Post
    You said coils were pretty new, but have you got some spares you know work to try out?
    Also, hows your coil pack harness look, and in particular the ground point on the valve cover?
    Coil pack harness is all mint, i recently put the ECS coil pack wire harness cover on the wires so i made sure to check them all before i installed it.
    Valve cover ground was a bit loose so i tightened it, no change. Valve cover is powercoated and ground is sanded down to metal.
    I havent switched the coils out yet, but seeing as in getting misfires on all cyl, i dont think its them. Ill try to find some coils though and see if it does anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    If you can get it to start and idle you can check your fuel trims to see if the ECM is adding fuel like crazy to keep it running.
    I can get it to start and idle for roughly 30 sec or so. As mentioned though, ive never run logs before thru VCDS so i dont really know how to go about it. I have it, i just havent ever done logs. Would you care to educate me here or via pm possibly?
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    You don't need to log it. You just need to look at measuring blocks 32 and 33 while it's idling to see in real time if the ECM is adding fuel.

    However, if it's really misfiring bad at idle the readings may be suspect. Will it idle OK once you get it started?
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    You don't need to log it. You just need to look at measuring blocks 32 and 33 while it's idling to see in real time if the ECM is adding fuel.

    However, if it's really misfiring bad at idle the readings may be suspect. Will it idle OK once you get it started?
    edited above. When started, it shutters and shakes and flashing CEL until it shuts off. It runs awful right now. If i tap the accelerator it revs up to like 1500 and just shuts off.

    ill check that later tonight or early tomorrow once i have my cable back. What are the trims supposed to be normally?

    ill try to record it with my phone or go-pro tonight.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Unfortunately if it is running that rough I doubt you will be able to get any meaningful data from the fuel trims. Normally the STFT (short term fuel trim) measured in block 33 will be between ± 5%. It will be bouncing between adding and subtracting fuel. The idle LTFT (first value in block 32) with be stable somewhere between ± 5%. Acceptable values are ± 10%.

    I don't think gopro measures the idle LTFT. I believe it is the same as TorquePro where it only measures the additive LTFT which would be the second value in the VCDS block 32. Both should be capable of measuring the STFT and if it is really high you know you have a fueling issue or a large false air leak somewhere between the MAF sensor and throttle body.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Check the charge air hoses from the turbo to the intercooler, make sure a hose has not blown off it's connection.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    I should add, I was going down hill in 3rd gear using the engine brake around 4-5k rpm and once I stopped and started going again is when it all went to shit. I will check the ic piping but from what I recall I was pulling normal vacuum when it happened.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings customa4's Avatar
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    With that last statement and load being put on the engine I wouldn't be surprised if you just popped a hose. Let's hope that's all it is.
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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by customa4 View Post
    With that last statement and load being put on the engine I wouldn't be surprised if you just popped a hose. Let's hope that's all it is.
    I would love for that to be the case more than anything in the world... I've had that happen once, the car never stalled out completely because of it though. I'll check in the morning. Was going to scan with vcds but of course it needs an update so I'll do that also in the morning.

    I just feel that it can't be a coincidence that the oil level light came on and then something like that happened in the same night. Is there any other circumstance that the low oil light would come on other than actually having low oil or the sensor going bad??

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromS60toB61.8t View Post
    I should add, I was going down hill in 3rd gear using the engine brake around 4-5k rpm and once I stopped and started going again is when it all went to shit. I will check the ic piping but from what I recall I was pulling normal vacuum when it happened.
    You can still pull normal vacuum with a loose boost track hose. Manifold vacuum is created between the engine and throttle plate.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Are you running a belly pan? If not, you may have run over some debris that damaged the wires to the oil level sensor as well as one of the lower boost hoses.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromS60toB61.8t View Post
    I would love for that to be the case more than anything in the world... I've had that happen once, the car never stalled out completely because of it though. I'll check in the morning. Was going to scan with vcds but of course it needs an update so I'll do that also in the morning.

    I just feel that it can't be a coincidence that the oil level light came on and then something like that happened in the same night. Is there any other circumstance that the low oil light would come on other than actually having low oil or the sensor going bad??
    When I experienced a charge air hose come off the connecting pipe between the turbo and intercooler, my car would not run for more than about 10 seconds when trying to restart, and ran roughly like you described.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    When I experienced a charge air hose come off the connecting pipe between the turbo and intercooler, my car would not run for more than about 10 seconds when trying to restart, and ran roughly like you described.
    Alright, I'll start there then. Maybe one of the couplers or pipes have rubbed through or something. I'm also using the boost tap for my n75 so I'll check how that's holding up as well.

    I checked the wiring and sensor plug when I was on the side of the road old guy, all looked good. I don't use a belly pan but I'm on air and when I drive, I ride high. I ran over a big piece of curb once in the winter thinking it was just snow in the middle of the road and it only hit my exhaust.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Ic pipes all on snug, boost tap looks good, dv looks good.

    Scanned for codes again,

    P0300 - random multiple misfires
    P0302 - cyl 2 misfire
    P0301 - cyl 1 misfire
    P0102 - MAF sensor signal too low (could be when I unplugged it)
    P0113 - intake air temp signal too high

    So it went from cyl 3,4 misfires, to cyl 1,2,3,4, and now it's cyl 1,2 misfires... I'm at a loss...

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Just tried to monitor meas blocks 33 (lambda control mixture adaptation) and block 32 (lambda control) and it stayed at 0% the whole time.

    Sensor voltage is 1.520-1.540 v

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Did you reset all codes and scan again or just scan again?
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Did you reset all codes and scan again or just scan again?
    I just scanned again.

    Just cleared codes though, started it for a few, pulled codes again.

    Multiple misfires
    Cyl2 misfire
    Intake temp sensor signal too high.

    Would a faulty intake temp sensor cause all of these problems?
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Possibly. It may cause the ECM to lean out too much. See what happens if you just unplug it. It will give you a CEL but you already have a few so it doesn't matter. You will reset everything soon anyway.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Possibly. It may cause the ECM to lean out too much. See what happens if you just unplug it. It will give you a CEL but you already have a few so it doesn't matter. You will reset everything soon anyway.
    Nix the intake temp sensor cel lol I'm jut an idiot. When I was checking vacuum lines, I unplugged it so I could reach one of them and never plugged it back in.

    Cleared codes again, only multiple misfire and cyl 2 misfire. I'll try to get a new plug and coil pack and see what happens.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Took video with my phone
    Interior:
    https://youtu.be/9crSZGEzgak

    The engine video sounds much worse than it really is. That clinking sound has me worried though.
    https://youtu.be/87Uym7c_WHA
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromS60toB61.8t View Post
    Just tried to monitor meas blocks 33 (lambda control mixture adaptation) and block 32 (lambda control) and it stayed at 0% the whole time.

    Sensor voltage is 1.520-1.540 v
    When you reset the ECM all fuel trims will go to zero. They will stay at zero until after the ECM completes the cold start cycle (open loop condition). After the cold start cycle completes the ECM goes into closed loop and the fuel trims will start to adjust to the prevailing conditions.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Towed it back to my house. I was able to keep it on long enough to drive it up onto the trailer. I noticed that the brakes are stiff and there's no brakes. Will have to check brake booster when I get back.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Have you looked really close at your SJP?

    Stiff brake pedal is an indication of a lack of vacuum to the brake booster.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Have you looked really close at your SJP?

    Stiff brake pedal is an indication of a lack of vacuum to the brake booster.
    What do you mean by SJP?
    If you mean the vacuum line that goes to the IM then it's all good, it's pretty straight forward after the SAI Evap delete.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    What do the left and right legs of the red vacuum lines connect to? Is that yellow thing a check valve or a filter?
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    What do the left and right legs of the red vacuum lines connect to? Is that yellow thing a check valve or a filter?
    The left goes to my WMI controller, the right goes under the brake booster hose and through the ecu box to my boost gauge.

    Yes the yellow thing is just a moisture filter.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    You indicated that you had a stiff brake pedal which indicates no vacuum to the brake booster. What did you see on your boost/vacuum gauge?
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    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    You indicated that you had a stiff brake pedal which indicates no vacuum to the brake booster. What did you see on your boost/vacuum gauge?
    i had it unplugged at the time because my VCDS was plugged in. I use a p3 gauge.

    I dont think i would have noticed anyway because i was too busy trying to stop myself from rolling into my garage doors haha.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Have you had the opportunity to perform a boost pressure test?

    It sure sounds like a significant leak somewhere.
    Last edited by old guy; 05-30-2016 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Kant spel
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
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    What is the conflict with your boost gauge being connected and having the VCDS cable connected to the diagnostic port? Why did you remove the SAI system and EVAP purge plumbing?

    The symptom of low or no brake booster assist is consistent with a disconnection somewhere in the vacuum hose plumbing, that would also cause a large vacuum leak and associated symptoms that are occuring.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Have you had the opportunity to perform a boost pressure test?

    It shure sounds like a significant leak somewhere.
    i might be able to. I dont have a pressure regulator on my boost leak tester that i used to use on the oem TIP. I controlled it with my mini compressor. Now i have a 180psi compressor so its a bit different haha. Ill have to make a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    What is the conflict with your boost gauge being connected and having the VCDS cable connected to the diagnostic port? Why did you remove the SAI system and EVAP purge plumbing?

    The symptom of low or no brake booster assist is consistent with a disconnection somewhere in the vacuum hose plumbing, that would also cause a large vacuum leak and associated symptoms that are occuring.
    i use my p3 gauge for boost pressure and it connects to the OBD. I removed it a while back because i didnt want all of the clutter in the bay. Its been running great without all of it for over 20k miles now. Engine was rebuilt less than 2k miles ago.

    i also looked at all of the vacuum lines and none of them seem to be loose or be cracked or anything. The SAI / Evap delete makes it really easy to diagnose the PCV system for vacuum leaks now.
    19' Glacier S4 Black Optics

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    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    Pretty much confirmed its a boost leak. Vacuum at idle at 800ish rpm is -2 to -4 hg. I'll drain my small compressor and see if I can run a boost leak test that way.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings FromS60toB61.8t's Avatar
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    pushed 20psi into the system. Only thing i heard was (im guessing) oil bubbling. The 20psi went thru the system in about 1 minute. added a little more pressure to see if it would amplify any leaks. Still only heard fluid chugging.

    Its sounds as if you took a 1 gal water jug and turned it upside down and poured it out. just sounds like its chugging air.

    is there anything that needs to get blocked off for a boost leak test?

    Really debating on a full part out at this point Got too much going on right now to be putting any time or money into this thing.
    Last edited by FromS60toB61.8t; 05-30-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    You should always remove the oil filler cap so you don't pressurize your block and blow out your oil seals. Since you have done some variation of a block breather delete I can only guess as to what you have hooked up. Disconnect any vacuum lines connected to the intake manifold, one at a time. Use an air nozzle and try to blow air through the line.

    If ANY air blows through the line you will have to determine the defective component associated with that particular line. You can have a defective check valve or PCV valve that will leak internally (into the block) rather than externally. Consequently you may not recognize the leak as an external source of boost/vacuum leak.
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