Accident - Need advice

[Ruski]

Hey folks,

Just got into accident with my 2004 A4. Shitty part is the car was in perfect condition, low km but I worry they will want to write it off.

Anyone with experience could give me some advice? Do I take it to the insurance company approved shop or elsewhere?

Probably going to be at least partially at fault. I have full coverage and my biggest concern is not loosing the car (if at all possible).

Damage visually is front end, at least one headlight and the radiator is leaking so that can't be good.

[james12lucy]

Let them write it off, fight for more value while then pay for a rental car, then buy it back at a much lower price. Use the excess money to buy another of the same vehicle and have spares of everything.


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[Ruski]

If they write it off, can I buy it back, fix it and drive it? Or is it not considered street worthy after write off?

[LINDW4LL]

Them writing it off isn't the worst thing as you could buy it back and fix it for cheap, pocketing a nice profit in the process.

My friend hit a deer in his '04 A8 recently- minor damage (headlight, bumper, fender), but the car was ruled a total loss. Insurance valued it at $7k and he was able to "buy it back" for $1,900, and then repair it (used parts) for ~ $1,000. His car is now back in the same condition as prior to the accident, with an extra $4,100 (USD) in his pocket.

[Ruski]

Hmm dont you need to do something complicated to get the car back on the road after its ruled a total loss? How much is a road worthiness certificate cost? Will the insurance company insure it again if they write it off, I buy it back and repair it?

[BirdmanQ5]

Hmm dont you need to do something complicated to get the car back on the road after its ruled a total loss? How much is a road worthiness certificate cost? Will the insurance company insure it again if they write it off, I buy it back and repair it?

I think you're on to something, pretty sure in Ontario if it's a TL you can't relicense it.

[Ruski]

I think you're on to something, pretty sure in Ontario if it's a TL you can't relicense it.

Rough estimate in damage so far is $3500, but thats without seeing whats under hood. I wonder if taking it to a top end repair shop will increase chances of write off vs taking it to my personal mechanic/body shop?

[LINDW4LL]

I wonder if taking it to a top end repair shop will increase chances of write off vs taking it to my personal mechanic/body shop?

High end repair shops will generally cost more (give a higher repair quote), and thus it does raise the chance of it being a total loss.



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[Canadianwraith]

Hmm dont you need to do something complicated to get the car back on the road after its ruled a total loss? How much is a road worthiness certificate cost? Will the insurance company insure it again if they write it off, I buy it back and repair it?

The insurance company will not insure it again. You will have to switch to another company that will

[Theiceman]

My buddy just went through this . ( see thread ) the ins company wrote it off as he was in a bumper to bumper accident on the 401. there was no visible damage yet they wrote it off anyway. gave him 11G for it ( including taxes ) . he wanted to buy it back but ins company would not let him.

when you go to get your stuff out if its at the body shop take your matts out ( front and rear ) il buy them from you if they are black :) . also don't give them your spare key. If you buy a new car and it only has one key you can use it there ( still figuring out how ) . or sell it to fellow enthusiast .

Pm me if you cant find the thread or need more info on my budies accident ( sitting on 401 and got fired into the car in front. )

[Theiceman]

The insurance company will not insure it again. You will have to switch to another company that will

You will have to make a special deal with the insurance NOT to tag it with salvage title with the ministry. If it gets tagged you are NOT getting it back on the road in Ontario no matter what ins company you use without a ton of red tape.

[Ruski]

My buddy just went through this . ( see thread ) the ins company wrote it off as he was in a bumper to bumper accident on the 401. there was no visible damage yet they wrote it off anyway. gave him 11G for it ( including taxes ) . he wanted to buy it back but ins company would not let him.

when you go to get your stuff out if its at the body shop take your matts out ( front and rear ) il buy them from you if they are black :) . also don't give them your spare key. If you buy a new car and it only has one key you can use it there ( still figuring out how ) . or sell it to fellow enthusiast .

Pm me if you cant find the thread or need more info on my budies accident ( sitting on 401 and got fired into the car in front. )

I just put the car at my mechanics today. Haven't heard from adjuster so assuming they get in touch tomorrow/Wednesday. Really hoping it's not a write off as I put so much damn care and parts into the car.

it still starts and drives but obviously needs hood, headlight, radiator and a few other things. Likely $3-4K of work, mostly mechanical, the body looks pretty good, both fenders ok.

Do I not have the option to keep my car even if they write it off? Minus salvage value obviously?

[Ruski]

Hoping for the best - Bracing for the worst!

Adjuster called today, estimator coming on Thursday to look at the car and they promised to have a report ready for Friday. She seemed real nice and friendly but that don't mean jack until the estimator writes up the report I suppose.

Anyone know the write off threshold in Ontario? 50% of present value or is it higher?

If anyone has links/screenshots/for sale ads of mint B6 Ultrasports from the last year or so, please shoot me a PM so i have some evidence of higher values!

• As expected, based on photos and description Pfaff estimate is $8000 to repair which would be a write off if 50% is the mark.
• My mechanic says its more like $3-$5k and mostly mechanical work (needs a new hood/headlight/radiator/radiator fan though)

Literally pulled out of the car wash a few minutes before accident, car is mint, low kms, interior is 9/10 if not higher....going to be gutted if its written off.

I know some say take the cash and run, go upgrade to an S4 but I am scared shitless to buy a B6/B7 S4 with those engine gremlins

[Theiceman]

I just put the car at my mechanics today. Haven't heard from adjuster so assuming they get in touch tomorrow/Wednesday. Really hoping it's not a write off as I put so much damn care and parts into the car.

it still starts and drives but obviously needs hood, headlight, radiator and a few other things. Likely $3-4K of work, mostly mechanical, the body looks pretty good, both fenders ok.

Do I not have the option to keep my car even if they write it off? Minus salvage value obviously?

Well my buddy did not no matter how hard he tried.

if they write it off you may never see it again . You may get to visit to take out your personal affects but that is it. ( that's why I told you to take out the mats and stuff before turning it in ) . if the damage is 3-4K I can tell you that car is close to a complete write off , my buddys was a bent hood and front and rear bumper cover. ( his was an immaculate 2008 B7 ) but it did have 250K.

he was dealing with a broker so your milage may vary.

[Ruski]

Well my buddy did not no matter how hard he tried.

if they write it off you may never see it again . You may get to visit to take out your personal affects but that is it. ( that's why I told you to take out the mats and stuff before turning it in ) . if the damage is 3-4K I can tell you that car is close to a complete write off , my buddys was a bent hood and front and rear bumper cover. ( his was an immaculate 2008 B7 ) but it did have 250K.

he was dealing with a broker so your milage may vary.

Car is at my mechanics shop, they aint touching it unless i hand over ownership papers as far as i know. I don't think the estimator has the right to move my car without me handing over ownership...am i wrong?

I am sure i can go get all my mats and other things from the car before they touch it!

[Theiceman]

Car is at my mechanics shop, they aint touching it unless i hand over ownership papers as far as i know. I don't think the estimator has the right to move my car without me handing over ownership...am i wrong?

I am sure i can go get all my mats and other things from the car before they touch it!

well lets hope it doesn't come to that and they will fix her up. If they write it off and cut you a cheque it becomes their car. if I had been you I would have taken key bits off ( mods ) before driving over you your mechanic just in case.

[Ruski]

well lets hope it doesn't come to that and they will fix her up. If they write it off and cut you a cheque it becomes their car. if I had been you I would have taken key bits off ( mods ) before driving over you your mechanic just in case.

Its something i wrestled with but ultimately decided that my best bet to keep the car is leaving it as is now, shiny, clean and all the good parts. Highest chance of estimator giving it decent value and thus approving the repair imo.

If they decide to write it off, I believe its my car until the moment i accept their cheque. I don't think they have the right to move it until i hand over registration and take their cheque.

[claudiovagkraft]

In all this discussion, something doesn't add up. I could be way off but the logic of who owns the car and when, should be decided by you and not the insurance company. Here's what I mean...Ok so you got in an accident and damage occurred to your car. Shouldn't the criteria determining whether or not the car is road worthy after the actual damage has been inspected for structural/safety issues rather than a dollar amount? Let's say by some strange turn of events you get into an accident where all your body panels get dented up and need repair and paint, and the total cost of work involved comes to an amount way over the replacement value of your car. So at that point the insurance company takes a look at the cost of repairs vs. the current value of your car and considers it a "write off". Well ok, but that doesn't mean your car is unsafe to drive since the damage was purely cosmetic. This was determined from a cost perspective, not a safety perspective. At this stage of the claim I'd think you should have the choice to move forward and take the money they'd give you for the current replacement value of the car, or not accept the money and repair your car out of pocket, or just drive your car as is, which would still be safe to drive on the road, just not very nice to look at.

Ruski, with good used parts, I would think you could be able to repair the car at a very reasonable cost. There are guys parting out B6's all over the place.

[Ruski]

In all this discussion, something doesn't add up. I could be way off but the logic of who owns the car and when, should be decided by you and not the insurance company. Here's what I mean...Ok so you got in an accident and damage occurred to your car. Shouldn't the criteria determining whether or not the car is road worthy after the actual damage has been inspected for structural/safety issues rather than a dollar amount? Let's say by some strange turn of events you get into an accident where all your body panels get dented up and need repair and paint, and the total cost of work involved comes to an amount way over the replacement value of your car. So at that point the insurance company takes a look at the cost of repairs vs. the current value of your car and considers it a "write off". Well ok, but that doesn't mean your car is unsafe to drive since the damage was purely cosmetic. This was determined from a cost perspective, not a safety perspective. At this stage of the claim I'd think you should have the choice to move forward and take the money they'd give you for the current replacement value of the car, or not accept the money and repair your car out of pocket, or just drive your car as is, which would still be safe to drive on the road, just not very nice to look at.

Ruski, with good used parts, I would think you could be able to repair the car at a very reasonable cost. There are guys parting out B6's all over the place.

Claudio, this is exactly what i am wondering. Why don't insurance companies encourage commucation between consumers and estimators. If i am ok with used parts, why quote $9k for a repair??? Everything I read points towards the car being totally repairable and probably in the $3-4k range even with new hood and headlight.

Unfortunately, from what I understand if the estimator (coming tomorrow) says the car is a write off the only thing I can do is argue for a higher payout and potentially buy the car back from insurance in order to part out myself or use space good parts to transplant into another B6. Now since I don't have the tools or knowledge to move big things like exhaust or engine on my own, that might just cost me more than is economical.

Anyone else care to chime in or provide some advice? I was planning to drive this car into the ground (only 150k kms on it) and mint condition in and out...hence my reluctance to write it off.

I could try an upgrade to a B6 or B7 S4 but not sure it's worth the risk of maintenance headaches at the miles these cars will have now and the $s I wasn't planning on spending.

[Theiceman]

Claudio, this is exactly what i am wondering. Why don't insurance companies encourage commucation between consumers and estimators. If i am ok with used parts, why quote $9k for a repair??? Everything I read points towards the car being totally repairable and probably in the $3-4k range even with new hood and headlight.

Unfortunately, from what I understand if the estimator (coming tomorrow) says the car is a write off the only thing I can do is argue for a higher payout and potentially buy the car back from insurance in order to part out myself or use space good parts to transplant into another B6. Now since I don't have the tools or knowledge to move big things like exhaust or engine on my own, that might just cost me more than is economical.

Anyone else care to chime in or provide some advice? I was planning to drive this car into the ground (only 150k kms on it) and mint condition in and out...hence my reluctance to write it off.

I could try an upgrade to a B6 or B7 S4 but not sure it's worth the risk of maintenance headaches at the miles these cars will have now and the $s I wasn't planning on spending.

They don't have the right to move it maybe , but you are not allowed to go take stuff off it after they have valued it for your payout. I hve been through this several times.

you can try and buy it back but you will have to negotiate it with the insurance company when they call you . I know a guy who once got the insurance company to just give his car back and write him a check for the repairs they were willing to pay and he fixed it . he had to sign an affidivid of some kind and they would not give him collision coverage on it after that. But that was on a jetta TDI with 500K on it.

[CONTROL ONE]

Just responded to your PM. Sorry I haven't been on in a few days!

I would say your best bet is just buying it back as salvage, fixing it at an independent shop and then reinsuring it.

You don't have to do any of the work yourself and at the end of the repairs, you just have to get a special safety done to ensure the vehicle is safe to return to the roads.

[hangtime10]

Posed the question to my insurance agent and this is what she responded with.

"I asked my colleague for you regarding this question – she says the owner should have the option to reject that offer and take the car back if there is sentimental value, however you may be forfeiting the claim altogether. It should be one or the other so if you take the car back you won’t be getting the write off cheque.

Hope that helps! But please have your friend speak with their claims adjuster to be certain as we are still not the claims department so we can’t speak on their behalf."

[CONTROL ONE]

Posed the question to my insurance agent and this is what she responded with.

"I asked my colleague for you regarding this question – she says the owner should have the option to reject that offer and take the car back if there is sentimental value, however you may be forfeiting the claim altogether. It should be one or the other so if you take the car back you won’t be getting the write off cheque.

Hope that helps! But please have your friend speak with their claims adjuster to be certain as we are still not the claims department so we can’t speak on their behalf."

That is absolutely not correct. If you choose to buy it back, they will give you the cost that they were going to pay out - less the salvage value of the vehicle and then it's up to you to have it fixed and get it safetied.

[hangtime10]

Don't shoot the messenger.
It's what I was provided by from my agent.
Maybe it's different for all insurance companies?
I guess it's a matter of Ruski discussing the options with the insurance company.

[Theiceman]

That is absolutely not correct. If you choose to buy it back, they will give you the cost that they were going to pay out - less the salvage value of the vehicle and then it's up to you to have it fixed and get it safetied.

That "special safety" of which you speak can be an absolute nightmare and expensive. Went through this with a Porsche 911 cab . it had to be put on a cellete machine and show an engineer everything was within original factory tolerance.

[CONTROL ONE]

Don't shoot the messenger.
It's what I was provided by from my agent.
Maybe it's different for all insurance companies?
I guess it's a matter of Ruski discussing the options with the insurance company.

Didn't mean to come off harsh, just point out that isn't the case. This would be a standard among all insurance companies operating in Ontario.

That "special safety" of which you speak can be an absolute nightmare and expensive. Went through this with a Porsche 911 cab . it had to be put on a cellete machine and show an engineer everything was within original factory tolerance.

I don't imagine it would be easy. I have had several clients go through this process and haven't heard too many complaints back. I'm not sure if this is different as the value of the car increases however.

[Theiceman]

I guess now we just all watch and wait ..

[mk1gtigirl]

I had an accident with my old B6 A4 Avant (manual transmission)......the hood, rad and rad support needed to be replaced. Using used parts, we could probably have it fixed for about $1500......they estimated the damage at $5500! So, they said it was a write off.

My insurance company valued the car based on comparable cars listed in the auto trader at the time. They listed 7 different cars in their evaluation....and not one of them was a manual b6 avant! the cheapest car they compared it to had a blown motor! So needless to say we rejected their evaluation and told them to do it again. They did it again, and we still disagreed with it.

We had the car at home, so we decided to wait until more cars came available for the evaluation to be done again. They also said that we could pay for an appraisal if we wanted to.

Our insurance company does not have a buy back option, so we either had to write it off, or keep it as is and fix it ourselves. After having it sit on my driveway for 6 months, we decided to let them take it away. It was heart breaking, but they ended up paying us even more than originally quoted because they wanted to close the file.

There is a body shop in Burlington that does structural safeties. It's expensive, but it's worth it if you need to remove a salvage branding.


93 cabby (original owner), 06 V8 Touareg (daily driver/winter beater), B6 S4 Avant (Nogaro blue beauty), 83 GTi (never ending 1.8T project car) IG @vw_audi_girl. Visit www.germanoem.ca for all of your VW and Audi parts needs.

[Ruski]

Insurance company approved repair estimate! Going to be in the $5400-$6000 range.

Kinda shocked that they approved it with such a number but happy at the same time. Perhaps i got lucky with having washed my car minutes before the accident and it looked sparkling for the inspector haha :)

Also being polite with the insurance also seems to be good practice. Now just a matter of waiting for the repairs and trying not to commit suicide while driving around in a Kia Optima lol.

Don't really care about future value, just want to drive this car into the ground or until i feel like buying an S4 :P

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and thanks to everyone for responding and sharing they knowledge/experience. Will certainly help if this kind of thing happens again!

[LINDW4LL]

Insurance company approved repair estimate! Going to be in the $5400-$6000 range.

Wow! That's crazy that they're repairing it.

Being in Canada, can you pocket most of that cash and repair it at your own direction, or is that not how it works there?

[circle]

Wow! That's crazy that they're repairing it.

Being in Canada, can you pocket most of that cash and repair it at your own direction, or is that not how it works there?

No you either take it to one of the insurer's preferred dealers and they just give it back when its ready (no bills), or take it in yourself and they will usually bill the insurer directly themselves. I had an accident in a prior car and decided to try the "Assured" dealer system. Ended up being much more expensive for the insurance company as they couldn't match the colour (tried 3x!) and I ended up taking it to a place of my own choosing whom had no problems with a pearl colour paint.

Home insurance can work more like you suggest. I've had a payout from the ins co and we fixed it ourselves. They just asked for receipts to show it was done.

[hangtime10]

Glad to hear you'll be getting your car to . Maybe have a chat with the bodyshop and see if they can work with you to add an item or more from your wishlist.

[Theiceman]

That is very surprising that they fixed an 04 at that repair cost. Good for you though as am sure you were in the red zone for right off..

[claudiovagkraft]

No you either take it to one of the insurer's preferred dealers and they just give it back when its ready (no bills), or take it in yourself and they will usually bill the insurer directly themselves. I had an accident in a prior car and decided to try the "Assured" dealer system. Ended up being much more expensive for the insurance company as they couldn't match the colour (tried 3x!) and I ended up taking it to a place of my own choosing whom had no problems with a pearl colour paint.

Home insurance can work more like you suggest. I've had a payout from the ins co and we fixed it ourselves. They just asked for receipts to show it was done.

No that's not true. At least not with the policy I have on my cars.